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Herring
Caldari
Fork In Your Face LTD
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Posted - 2010.10.28 21:18:00 -
[1]
With more government babble of 'stimulus', my guess is sometime in late 2012 or early 2013. Then our chinese overlords are coming in to repossess.
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Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.28 21:47:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Brutorr on 28/10/2010 21:49:01
I think that the US dollar will ruin everything, but your reasoning is very... stupid.
The big economic cats plan to devalue the USD in an attempt to make money through trading mainly with China. Anyone remember Germany before WWII?
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2010.10.28 21:58:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Brutorr
Edited by: Brutorr on 28/10/2010 21:49:01
I think that the US dollar will ruin everything, but your reasoning is very... stupid.
The big economic cats plan to devalue the USD in an attempt to make money through trading mainly with China. Anyone remember Germany before WWII?
Sadly the invention of debit cards makes the visualisation of wheelbarrowing money to the supermarket impossible in a modern scenario.
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Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.28 22:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Brutorr
Edited by: Brutorr on 28/10/2010 21:49:01
I think that the US dollar will ruin everything, but your reasoning is very... stupid.
The big economic cats plan to devalue the USD in an attempt to make money through trading mainly with China. Anyone remember Germany before WWII?
Sadly the invention of debit cards makes the visualisation of wheelbarrowing money to the supermarket impossible in a modern scenario.
Are you joking?
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.28 22:07:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 28/10/2010 22:08:44
Originally by: Herring
With more government babble of 'stimulus', my guess is sometime in late 2012 or early 2013. Then our chinese overlords are coming in to repossess.
The US dollar took the bullet in the 1930s with the fractional reserve banking introduction and the private Federal Reserve. No ammount of "stimulus" is going to help, its compleatly retared to think in such terms. What US needs is a good monetary reform to actually make a currency that is based on something other then debt, and something not regulated by private interests.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Vogue
Skynet Nexus
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Posted - 2010.10.28 22:20:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Vogue on 28/10/2010 22:28:27
As far as currency wars go USA is being hypocritical as it deliberately devalued its currency in the late 80's and early 90's. But in any case if the Chinese currency did rise say 20% it is not going to make much difference to some fundamental problems of US consumers living beyond their means on credit and republicans being ******s just saying 'no' to most initiatives including good ideas like national infrastructure renewal.
There is a growing schism between US company's that are very competitive, making profits but simply need less people to operate. So you will see Wall Street doing well but average US folk being more disenfranchised.
I am a Brit and see some Americans views as very odd if they cling on to their dogmatic 'freedom fetish'. That is government does very little and lets people fend for themselves. Well US government did a very good job of rescuing the big 3 automakers. That is a cause for celebration.
China does not present the end of the road for western industries. Germany is showing that high quality goods and products that not sold cheaply have a place in the global marketplace.
Back to the original subject as I always go off on tangents! If the petrodollar vanishes - countries shift selling oil from dollars to Euros and say Chinese Renminbi then that is a very big deal.
Generally speaking I hope the world can continue to move forward as it has done since WW2 - a time of relative peace for the world and a massive growth in living standards and productivity overall. I just hope the friction between China and USA does not erupt into either 1930's style protectionism or even worse war.
Though to be honest I would like to see the UK be less of an economic satellite to the USA.
..................................................
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Zedic
Amarr
Universalis Imperium
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2010.10.28 22:55:00 -
[7]
"Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima Jarka |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.28 23:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Vogue
Back to the original subject as I always go off on tangents! If the petrodollar vanishes - countries shift selling oil from dollars to Euros and say Chinese Renminbi then that is a very big deal.
I don't think anyone will want to shift to Euros considering the Euro is tanking as we speak.
The only reason the European Union is staying afloat is b/c Germany keeps bailing everyone else out...how long you think it will be before Germany just says **** off and goes off and does their own thing? I recon not too much longer if they keep accepting countries like Greece in.
Originally by: captain foivos
Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.28 23:54:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 28/10/2010 23:56:48
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
The US dollar took the bullet in the 1930s with the fractional reserve banking introduction and the private Federal Reserve. No ammount of "stimulus" is going to help, its compleatly retared to think in such terms. What US needs is a good monetary reform to actually make a currency that is based on something other then debt, and something not regulated by private interests.
While that would be the responsible thing to do, the reason they went off the gold standard in the first place was so they could just create money as they need it.
The fed and global bankers couldn't care less about the future of America. They're in it for themselves. When they're done using it, they'll let the economy collapse, and leave the citizens holding the bag wondering what happened. Probably fighting amongst themselves about whose political party is to blame. 
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
ceaon
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Posted - 2010.10.29 00:28:00 -
[10]
i hope the interest rates go back to 2% atm USD is to damn hot, nobody likes hot money just ask south Korea and OPEC
Originally by: CCP Adida
The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
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Zedic
Amarr
Universalis Imperium
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2010.10.29 00:49:00 -
[11]
Just think my Euro friends! It'll be like when you turn 30 (at least, everyone I know here seems to do this lol). Our home will collapse, and we'll all move back in with our parents (you) until we sort things out. Win Win! eh? 
"Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima Jarka |
Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.29 03:17:00 -
[12]
it already has
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.10.29 03:22:00 -
[13]
When the dollar started with the Federal Reserve, 20 of them purchased one ounce of gold. Now gold is over $1300.
Looking at what you could buy with a gold coin back then and what you can buy with $1300 now is not very different. The buying power of gold is static except where market forces dictate for demand of certain commodities, so the dollar today is worth 3 cents of the dollar of yesterday.
As for the dollar biting the big one, that's like wondering when the dog that hasn't moved in a year is going to die.
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Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.10.29 03:53:00 -
[14]
There will be no dollar collapse any time soon, not in 2012, not in 2013.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.29 03:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Caleidascope
There will be no dollar collapse any time soon, not in 2012, not in 2013.
So, 2014?
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.10.29 04:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Caleidascope
There will be no dollar collapse any time soon, not in 2012, not in 2013.
So, 2014?
There is not enough bad things to cause the collapse.
I was in Russian when USSR disintegrated in 1991. Russian currency was in shambles, Russian economy was in shambles. Yet here we are, almost 20 years later. Russia still around. No civil war, no nukes went off. Life in Russia is not great, but people go on.
US is in good shape compared to what I saw in 1991-1994 in Russia. People who are predicting collapse of US or US dollar in the very near future have no clue what they are talking about, they have absolutely no perspective on the situation.
If you are really really seriously concerned, go and buy some American Silver Eagles that US Mint makes.
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Herring
Caldari
Fork In Your Face LTD
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Posted - 2010.10.29 04:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Brutorr
Edited by: Brutorr on 28/10/2010 21:49:01
I think that the US dollar will ruin everything, but your reasoning is very... stupid.
I didn't make an argument; I don't know what you're talking about with reference to reasoning. I asked a question. You however state the dollar will ruin everything, and give not even the slightest hint of why?
Try again.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.29 04:46:00 -
[18]
I'm Canadian myself, and am also pretty stable in terms of assets.
My main concern about the US economy is that a collapse will be used to justify a 'world bank' and currency. It's a reaction which was presented many times by various people when things were getting shakey in the US. It's also something which has been brought up in relation to the Euro's instability as well.
The global bankers would love such a thing, but how far do you think they'd go to have it? Countries enjoy their soverignty, and won`t go along with it easily.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Zions Child
Caldari
The Resident Haunting
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.10.29 05:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I'm Canadian myself, and am also pretty stable in terms of assets.
My main concern about the US economy is that a collapse will be used to justify a 'world bank' and currency. It's a reaction which was presented many times by various people when things were getting shakey in the US. It's also something which has been brought up in relation to the Euro's instability as well.
The global bankers would love such a thing, but how far do you think they'd go to have it? Countries enjoy their soverignty, and won`t go along with it easily.
I doubt that even the most concerted effort from Global bankers would result in a "global currency" (By the by, there already is a World Bank, although its purpose is mostly charitable). One of the problems with everyone sharing a currency is that a particular region cannot in any way shape or form alter fiscal policy if their region is suffering for some economic reason.
The U.S Dollar, by the way, has been experiencing one of the slowest rates of inflation it ever has. 1.1%. The target rate is around 2%. In fact, for the first 3/4 of 2009, the Dollar actually increased in value. And although you might have been able to buy an ounce of gold with $20 before 1930, gold was A) used much, much less (all the gold ever mined by humanity combined would equate to 3 Olympic swimming pools. Thats for every circuit, piece of jewelry, etc.) and B) to get $20 was far, far, FAR more difficult.
You obviously don't understand the concept of what "inflation" is. What a currency is valued at relative to other currencies, commodities, etc is unimportant. What is important is whether the amount people get paid increases as the Consumer Price Index increases. The CPI is a basket of household commodities. Gold is not a household commodity.
TL;DR: Inflation ain't actually a problem, anyone saying it is, is pulling your leg.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Herring
Caldari
Fork In Your Face LTD
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Posted - 2010.10.29 05:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zions Child
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I'm Canadian myself, and am also pretty stable in terms of assets.
My main concern about the US economy is that a collapse will be used to justify a 'world bank' and currency. It's a reaction which was presented many times by various people when things were getting shakey in the US. It's also something which has been brought up in relation to the Euro's instability as well.
The global bankers would love such a thing, but how far do you think they'd go to have it? Countries enjoy their soverignty, and won`t go along with it easily.
I doubt that even the most concerted effort from Global bankers would result in a "global currency" (By the by, there already is a World Bank, although its purpose is mostly charitable). One of the problems with everyone sharing a currency is that a particular region cannot in any way shape or form alter fiscal policy if their region is suffering for some economic reason.
The U.S Dollar, by the way, has been experiencing one of the slowest rates of inflation it ever has. 1.1%. The target rate is around 2%. In fact, for the first 3/4 of 2009, the Dollar actually increased in value. And although you might have been able to buy an ounce of gold with $20 before 1930, gold was A) used much, much less (all the gold ever mined by humanity combined would equate to 3 Olympic swimming pools. Thats for every circuit, piece of jewelry, etc.) and B) to get $20 was far, far, FAR more difficult.
You obviously don't understand the concept of what "inflation" is. What a currency is valued at relative to other currencies, commodities, etc is unimportant. What is important is whether the amount people get paid increases as the Consumer Price Index increases. The CPI is a basket of household commodities. Gold is not a household commodity.
TL;DR: Inflation ain't actually a problem, anyone saying it is, is pulling your leg.
That's what every Keynesian says....inflation, not a problem
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Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.10.29 05:30:00 -
[21]
Have a "revolution" establish a new country, new currency, what is this US you speak of? 
Secure bounty services
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Zions Child
Caldari
The Resident Haunting
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.10.29 06:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Herring
That's what every Keynesian says....inflation, not a problem
Amazing, since Keyensian Economic theory has tended to, you know, accurately model the economy of your average Nation.
Inflation is only a problem when its real, or if currency gets devalued very quickly. The first does not apply to the U.S., and the second requires a particularly obstinate freshwater economist printing money like mad.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Amicus Morte
Dead Muppets
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Posted - 2010.10.29 08:51:00 -
[23]
Wolfram Alpha to the rescue !
8 trillion dollars...8000 billion.....8 million million dollars. That's a lotta dollars lol
Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this!
Clear Skies - The Movie
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Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.29 10:49:00 -
[24]
USD will bite it probably a few years after oil is started to be traded in Yuan.
75-150 years or so.
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UVPhoenix2
Rim Collection RC
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.10.29 10:58:00 -
[25]
I can get a loaf of bread for a buck at Walmart. What now Doomers? |
ceaon
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Posted - 2010.10.29 12:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: UVPhoenix2
I can get a loaf of bread for a buck at Walmart. What now Doomers?
the fact that you shop at walmart tells allot about you economic knowledge
Originally by: CCP Adida
The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.10.29 13:22:00 -
[27]
IN THIS THRED MANY PEOPLE KNOW MUCH AND ARE UP TO DATE ABOUT ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED THRED. NO ONE IN THIS THRED IS A LAYMAN WITH MAYBE AN COLLEGE DEGREE BUT EVERYONE IS AN EXPERT IN FIELD OF ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED ADVICE. TOP NOTCH.
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2010.10.29 13:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: So Sensational
IN THIS THRED MANY PEOPLE KNOW MUCH AND ARE UP TO DATE ABOUT ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED THRED. NO ONE IN THIS THRED IS A LAYMAN WITH MAYBE AN COLLEGE DEGREE BUT EVERYONE IS AN EXPERT IN FIELD OF ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED ADVICE. TOP NOTCH.
ZOMG MY SPELLING IS **** AND MY CAPS LOCK BUTTON IS BROKENED!
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alittlebirdy
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Posted - 2010.10.29 14:22:00 -
[29]
OP is an idiot, when the doller tanks, will we pay off all our debt... WTB history class...
Welcome to how you get out of debt. when 1million buys a loaf of bread... good time to pay off those billions you owe... as, it is like giving them $20
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Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.10.29 14:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: So Sensational
IN THIS THRED MANY PEOPLE KNOW MUCH AND ARE UP TO DATE ABOUT ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED THRED. NO ONE IN THIS THRED IS A LAYMAN WITH MAYBE AN COLLEGE DEGREE BUT EVERYONE IS AN EXPERT IN FIELD OF ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED ADVICE. TOP NOTCH.
Note to CCP: I need the Block feature so that I can block and never read posts by simpletons like the one above, please!
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ivar R'dhak
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Posted - 2010.10.29 14:35:00 -
[31]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 29/10/2010 14:37:46
My bet is this November.
There¦s some serious insider selling going on on them markets.
Baby Boomers: Get Out of the Stock Market Now, the Rug is Being Pulled Out By Insiders
_________________________________________________
Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-`Big damn heroes sir.`
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.29 14:39:00 -
[32]
Quote:
That's what every Keynesian says....inflation, not a problem
It's not a problem if wages rise with inflation.
The US government's goal, as far as monetary policy goes, is to devalue the USD in an attempt to raise the value of the Chinese dollar against the USD.
When this is happening, I predict that everything from China is going to be expensive as hell for some time, and when almost everything comes from China...
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ivar R'dhak
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Posted - 2010.10.29 14:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Brutorr
When this is happening, I predict that everything from China is going to be expensive as hell for some time, and when almost everything comes from China...
And I have a nice bridge to sell to you.
_________________________________________________
Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-`Big damn heroes sir.`
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.10.29 15:10:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Brutorr
It's not a problem if wages rise with inflation.
The US government's goal, as far as monetary policy goes, is to devalue the USD in an attempt to raise the value of the Chinese dollar against the USD.
When this is happening, I predict that everything from China is going to be expensive as hell for some time, and when almost everything comes from China...
The problem with this line of reasoning is that the US can simply raise tariffs on things imported from China.
Do you see? Devaluing the dollar is a tool, but it is NOT the only tool. There are other tools available in addition to currency manipulation.
Furthermore, I dare say that Chinese government has much much more control over their currency compared to US government. Due to this I think that if US government devalues dollar into toilet paper, only then we will see meaningful changes in Chinese foreign policies.
I believe that devaluing the dollar as the sole solution to US economic crisis is a big mistake.
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Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.29 15:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Originally by: Brutorr
When this is happening, I predict that everything from China is going to be expensive as hell for some time, and when almost everything comes from China...
And I have a nice bridge to sell to you.
My thoughts are my own. Based on what's going to happen, I think that for some time, the buying power of the USD will be :(
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Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.29 15:22:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Caleidascope
Originally by: Brutorr
It's not a problem if wages rise with inflation.
The US government's goal, as far as monetary policy goes, is to devalue the USD in an attempt to raise the value of the Chinese dollar against the USD.
When this is happening, I predict that everything from China is going to be expensive as hell for some time, and when almost everything comes from China...
The problem with this line of reasoning is that the US can simply raise tariffs on things imported from China.
Do you see? Devaluing the dollar is a tool, but it is NOT the only tool. There are other tools available in addition to currency manipulation.
Furthermore, I dare say that Chinese government has much much more control over their currency compared to US government. Due to this I think that if US government devalues dollar into toilet paper, only then we will see meaningful changes in Chinese foreign policies.
I believe that devaluing the dollar as the sole solution to US economic crisis is a big mistake.
The government plans on doing this, you don't have to tell me that this may not be the smartest way to do anything, heh.
The problem right now is the US government is only worrying about its debt. Quite a few uncontrollable factors have to be in their favor, and if they are successful with devaluing the USD, it will mean that the US economy will probably take a ****.
Devaluing the dollar is probably the worst thing anyone can do, especially looking at the current fragile state that the economy is in now.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.29 17:10:00 -
[37]
Just read a little something which is relevant to this discussion.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.10.29 17:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Caleidascope
Originally by: So Sensational
IN THIS THRED MANY PEOPLE KNOW MUCH AND ARE UP TO DATE ABOUT ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED THRED. NO ONE IN THIS THRED IS A LAYMAN WITH MAYBE AN COLLEGE DEGREE BUT EVERYONE IS AN EXPERT IN FIELD OF ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED ADVICE. TOP NOTCH.
Note to CCP: I need the Block feature so that I can block and never read posts by simpletons like the one above, please!
:(
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Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.29 18:10:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/10/2010 17:45:18
Just read a little something which is relevant to this discussion.
Like i said before, the dollar will go into freefall whenever those creating the illusion it's OK decide to let it happen.
It's either we change everything the government is doing, or cause hyperinflation. Time to invest heavily into other currencies, heh.
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Betty Boom
Caldari
SPECTRE Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.29 18:42:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/10/2010 17:45:18
Just read a little something which is relevant to this discussion.
Like i said before, the dollar will go into freefall whenever those creating the illusion it's OK decide to let it happen.
Thanks for the link, but was nothing new to me.
The dollar and the problems of the USA are based on a lack of a fundasmental understanding of 'globalisation' in the USA. With globalisation have entered more the 1 billions new workers and consumers the world market. This means the USA had lack of analyse his instand had a discusion and lying themself how hard working they are. I follow the US media of a long time and in the last decade you talk about moral and partiotism. The USA could be one of the winner of globalisation, but you lost the power of integration. USA simlpy failed in the understanding of the changed world.
We in germany had a total other discusion and information policy. Over 10 years we had a discusion about globalisation, reformion, chages in the social system, improvment in our working market. Discusion about improving education, pimp science and invent and optimis of industry. Gay married or legiling prostution was not worth a discusion. We did it coz there are much more important thing to do.
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Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.29 18:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Betty Boom
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/10/2010 17:45:18
Just read a little something which is relevant to this discussion.
Like i said before, the dollar will go into freefall whenever those creating the illusion it's OK decide to let it happen.
Thanks for the link, but was nothing new to me.
The dollar and the problems of the USA are based on a lack of a fundasmental understanding of 'globalisation' in the USA. With globalisation have entered more the 1 billions new workers and consumers the world market. This means the USA had lack of analyse his instand had a discusion and lying themself how hard working they are. I follow the US media of a long time and in the last decade you talk about moral and partiotism. The USA could be one of the winner of globalisation, but you lost the power of integration. USA simlpy failed in the understanding of the changed world.
We in germany had a total other discusion and information policy. Over 10 years we had a discusion about globalisation, reformion, chages in the social system, improvment in our working market. Discusion about improving education, pimp science and invent and optimis of industry. Gay married or legiling prostution was not worth a discusion. We did it coz there are much more important thing to do.
Somehow I completely understood 100% of what you said.
In some aspects, the USA is far ahead of many other countries in utilizing the globalization of the business world. We have more international companies than many other countries around the world. A global economy, however, has punished the USA in the form of a trade deficit. Despite the profit earned from exploiting resources in various countries, our exports aren't even a fraction of the amount compared to our imports. We buy far more than we produce and sell, which cripples our economy, despite its size.
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Betty Boom
Caldari
SPECTRE Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.29 19:12:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Brutorr
Somehow I completely understood 100% of what you said.
In some aspects, the USA is far ahead of many other countries in utilizing the globalization of the business world. We have more international companies than many other countries around the world. A global economy, however, has punished the USA in the form of a trade deficit. Despite the profit earned from exploiting resources in various countries, our exports aren't even a fraction of the amount compared to our imports. We buy far more than we produce and sell, which cripples our economy, despite its size.
There are alot of ways to reduce it and very easy. An american produce 23 tons of CO¦, an europeans only 10 tonns. If you would increase the energy effectivity you would safe billions of dollar in imports. We in Germany have a large recyling system that safes us more then 7,5 billion Çuros in imports every year. You see - you safe the world and safe a lot of money ;-)
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Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.29 20:53:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Betty Boom
Edited by: Betty Boom on 29/10/2010 20:07:15
Originally by: Brutorr
Somehow I completely understood 100% of what you said.
In some aspects, the USA is far ahead of many other countries in utilizing the globalization of the business world. We have more international companies than many other countries around the world. A global economy, however, has punished the USA in the form of a trade deficit. Despite the profit earned from exploiting resources in various countries, our exports aren't even a fraction of the amount compared to our imports. We buy far more than we produce and sell, which cripples our economy, despite its size.
There are alot of ways to reduce it and very easy. An american produce 23 tons of CO¦, an europeans only 10 tonns. If you would increase the energy effectivity you would safe billions of dollar in imports. We in Germany have a large recyling system that safes us more then 7,5 billion Çuros in imports every year. You see - you safe the world and safe a lot of money ;-)
edit : energy conservation nice articel thats help to understand the problem
What do you want me to do! I'm agreeing with you..
You did not address the trade deficit, howver. What you've done is just suggest one way to save money in recycling every year. This will help, but it won't solve the problem. The real problem lies in the fact that our income does not match or exceed our spending. Our currency is in debt.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2010.10.29 20:58:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Vogue
Back to the original subject as I always go off on tangents! If the petrodollar vanishes - countries shift selling oil from dollars to Euros and say Chinese Renminbi then that is a very big deal.
I don't think anyone will want to shift to Euros considering the Euro is tanking as we speak.
The only reason the European Union is staying afloat is b/c Germany keeps bailing everyone else out...how long you think it will be before Germany just says **** off and goes off and does their own thing? I recon not too much longer if they keep accepting countries like Greece in.
Moron, go read up on when Greece joined the EU/EC ...
Also, all the countries and investors who bailed out Greece (actually banks Greece owed to) are happy with the money they're earning from that deal now.
Now regarding the Euro "tanking", EUR:USD is higher than in January 2010...
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Vogue
Skynet Nexus
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Posted - 2010.10.29 21:03:00 -
[45]
Exporters in the EU are enjoying the weaker EU. For countries that heavily export: China, Germany, Japan a weaker currency is advantageous.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2010.10.29 21:03:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/10/2010 17:45:18
Just read a little something which is relevant to this discussion.
Like i said before, the dollar will go into freefall whenever those creating the illusion it's OK decide to let it happen.
Spending commitments are a huge problem for most rich countries, e.g. Germany's debt including commitments for pensions etc. amounts to more than 6 trillion Euros (the official debt is 1/3rd of that).
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Betty Boom
Caldari
SPECTRE Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.29 21:25:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Brutorr
What do you want me to do! I'm agreeing with you..
You did not address the trade deficit, howver. What you've done is just suggest one way to save money in recycling every year. This will help, but it won't solve the problem. The real problem lies in the fact that our income does not match or exceed our spending. Our currency is in debt.
It would help to reduce the trade deficit. The USA import more the 8 millions Barrels per day. thats 20 Billion dollar you import to the USA per Month. This could be cut to half or to zero with better use of engergy in the USA. And thats only Oil.
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Vogue
Skynet Nexus
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Posted - 2010.10.29 21:32:00 -
[48]
^^ Your totally right. When you get into a taxi in Europe it will be in an efficient turbo diesel saloon that does around 35mpg urban. In the USA it will be a Ford Crown Victoria, a unrefined clanker that does does 15mpg in petrol.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.29 21:35:00 -
[49]
I don't think you guys understand. The US owes more than it is worth. You could sell every building and company on US soil, and still owe money. The time for cutting back spending and whatnot is long past. Should have listened to Eisenhower if you wanted to avoid such a fate.
Now it's all over but the screaming.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.30 00:41:00 -
[50]
If there was a "good" alternative to the dollar, it would be dead.
But there ain't.
Euro? Nope, has its own problems. Frankly, for the long haul, I'd bet dollars over Euros, although I'll confess that it would be a close bet (BOTH have serious hardcore problems...)
Yuan? China exercises tight control of its currency, at a cost. As much as China's economy gets talked about, it is just not big enough to replace the dollar (the economies that make up the Euro could be big enough, but as stated above, the Euro has its own problems...).
After that, the options get even more far fetched.
On a seperate note, an ASSET based currency is tempting, because it eliminates the ability to "printing Press" screw up a currency, but it ALSO eliminates the ability of a government to even try and keep a balanced money supply (very significant, and if you don't understand why, you probably should do your banking with your matress...)
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Zedic
Amarr
Universalis Imperium
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2010.10.30 19:16:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Image changed to a URL - Adida
LOL, and to think you get paid to be this useless!
"Zedic, would probably, somehow, make it all blow up." - Akima Jarka |
Grek Forto
Malevolent Intentions
Dragoon Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.30 21:49:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Caleidascope
Originally by: So Sensational
IN THIS THRED MANY PEOPLE KNOW MUCH AND ARE UP TO DATE ABOUT ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED THRED. NO ONE IN THIS THRED IS A LAYMAN WITH MAYBE AN COLLEGE DEGREE BUT EVERYONE IS AN EXPERT IN FIELD OF ECONOMICS MUCH RECOMMENDED ADVICE. TOP NOTCH.
Note to CCP: I need the Block feature so that I can block and never read posts by simpletons like the one above, please!
As opposed to the simpletons that are experts on all things economic.
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Bulldug
Starlight Enterprise
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.30 21:54:00 -
[53]
The big FED monster - Sons of Frankenstein
The root of our problems are caused by lack of mentorship (education) and critical thinking. Most people are good at hearts given the right circumstances but any society is only as strong as the weakest link. Also 'global conflicts' are really 'private conflicts' because everything start with the individual. There are no victims, only players. You either choose to be part of the solution or part of the problem.
Quote:
No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.
Albert Einstein
Quote:
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.
Albert Einstein
Quote:
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.
Albert Einstein
These 3 quotes highlight the root of our problems on the planet today. Consciousness evolution are caused by critical thinking and human imagination. A good scientist know that it's the question, not the answer that are important. To many people are completely stuck with a rigid belief system rather than keeping a fluid belief system that are open to new understandings and experiences.
I prefer to use 'mentorship' because to many has mis-understood the concept of education. Education should not be about accumulation of knowledge but rather mentorship and self-empowerment. Knowlegde without critital thinking only bring mass corruption and destruction. Most teachers today dont really power the individual, they teach the student to conform. Only primitive cultures call regression for progress.
Quote:
I would rather Summerhill produced a happy street sweeper than a neurotic prime minister.ö ...
A. S. Neill
A good mentor wont give the students all the answers because they need to practice personal discernment and critical thinking. If people understood A. S. Neill's views on education and indoctrination, it would help to positive change the world away from the old dogmas and belief systems. Imposing our belief systems on our children has been highly dysfunctional. The world is a mess not because of evil people but because it's full of sleepers.
We have been indoctrinated by religious dogmas, discipline, distorted history and propoganda, braindead entertainment and flattering egos. Criminal minds dont say 'evil is here'. No sir, they will flatter our ego and 'play nice' as a methodology of survival in order to win public acceptance. Taking personal responsibility also dictate not to take any information as face value but look for consistency in words and action... Until this situation is reversed, there are little to no hope that we can root out the corruption that dominate the world.
We cant be ignorant and free, power just dont work like that. Ignorance give free reign for corruption to flourish. If there is anything we can learn from history its that power corrupt and history is written by the winners. Power attract criminal minds like shyt attract flies. The current trend is like this, if you want to make a good contribution to society you might want to become a factory worker, scientist, doctor, nurse, policeman etc. But criminal minds that are morally corrupt will instead rise to top of the financial systems. A low-level criminal will try stealing your wallet, a 'well educated' criminal will become a banker and steal trillions for their wallstreat friends using unjust laws and fraud.
Bottom line, our financial systems are run by criminals |
Betty Boom
Caldari
SPECTRE Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:29:00 -
[54]
here an artical thats shows, that not china is the really reason for the trade deficit.
And about to replace the dollar. 2009 Dollar is down to 60% as world reserve from 75%. Euro is 33% from 22%. If the trend goes on the Euro will be equal with the dollar in 5-8 years.
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northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Novus Ordo Mundi
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:41:00 -
[55]
Originally by: ceaon
Originally by: UVPhoenix2
I can get a loaf of bread for a buck at Walmart. What now Doomers?
the fact that you shop at walmart tells allot about you economic knowledge
I am sorry but I worked in a allied bakery in UK! British Bread far nicer than the US bread. Also if you getting it for a buck is not bread period. I mean their must be over 100 ingredients for that crap.
Also Walmart
Trinity Corporate Services
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Vogue
Skynet Nexus
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Posted - 2010.11.02 18:07:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Vogue on 02/11/2010 18:10:43
The dollar being the world's reserve currency and the currency in which all oil is sold - petrodollar has allowed the USA to keep interest rates low and borrow huge amounts of money but being able to pay it back. This is what the USA has got away with up until recently: Run a trade deficit and pay it all back. US strategists had the mentality as quoted during the Nixon times "the dollar is our currency, your problem".
But this notion has unravelled in what is really the biggest joke of world financial history: A country with a communist flag being USA's banker. And for the first time in post WW2 times a country - China can say 'no' to the USA in financial affairs.
In the late 80's when Japan was at the zenith of its industrial power many people thought that the USA was done. But the I.T\internet-> productivity revolution has given the USA economy a second wind. USA will always be an economic powerhouse though its excellent culture of capital investment in college drop out geniuses that have spawned Microsoft, Google and others. But as business USA prospers the average American will feel more left out. This news article Fast Track To InEquality Between 2008 and 2009 the number of people earning more than $50,000,000 multiplied 5 times - during a global recession! Goldman Sachs has paid huge bonuses this year.
US politicians are bankrolled by rich special interests of individuals and organisations. During the fantastic rescue of the big 3 automakers the only question congress asked was that some dealerships should be saved that competetivly had no right to stay in business. This question was only asked as owners of such dealerships were giving political donations.
USA will always be a foremost economic power but through the concentration of wealth->political power it is going to converge more like Russia in the future: A corporate super state where the average person comes last.
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Betty Boom
Caldari
SPECTRE Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.02 19:49:00 -
[57]
With a handful of computer firms you can not feed 300 million people. Europe start to run the show. fe. Germany has 30.000 worldmarket leaders in in diffent branches.
And here goes some million new jobs to US... sorry. Europe again : Looking for Investments, China Turns to Europe.
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Zions Child
Caldari
The Resident Haunting
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.11.02 21:57:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Vogue
Edited by: Vogue on 02/11/2010 18:10:43
The dollar being the world's reserve currency and the currency in which all oil is sold - petrodollar has allowed the USA to keep interest rates low and borrow huge amounts of money but being able to pay it back. This is what the USA has got away with up until recently: Run a trade deficit and pay it all back. US strategists had the mentality as quoted during the Nixon times "the dollar is our currency, your problem".
But this notion has unravelled in what is really the biggest joke of world financial history: A country with a communist flag being USA's banker. And for the first time in post WW2 times a country - China can say 'no' to the USA in financial affairs.
In the late 80's when Japan was at the zenith of its industrial power many people thought that the USA was done. But the I.T\internet-> productivity revolution has given the USA economy a second wind. USA will always be an economic powerhouse though its excellent culture of capital investment in college drop out geniuses that have spawned Microsoft, Google and others. But as business USA prospers the average American will feel more left out. This news article Fast Track To InEquality Between 2008 and 2009 the number of people earning more than $50,000,000 multiplied 5 times - during a global recession! Goldman Sachs has paid huge bonuses this year.
US politicians are bankrolled by rich special interests of individuals and organisations. During the fantastic rescue of the big 3 automakers the only question congress asked was that some dealerships should be saved that competetivly had no right to stay in business. This question was only asked as owners of such dealerships were giving political donations.
USA will always be a foremost economic power but through the concentration of wealth->political power it is going to converge more like Russia in the future: A corporate super state where the average person comes last.
And the source of all this nonsense inequality and overabundance of corporatism and lack of private responsibility is our good old friend, Reaganomics. Also known as : pure unadulterated bull**** designed to screw over everyone who ain't rich.
My favorite thing in the world is when my "capitalist" friends say you shouldn't allow someone to start a business unless they can get the investors or the money themselves to start it up. Apparently, loans are evil, and in no way related to investing. |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.11.03 16:42:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Vogue
Back to the original subject as I always go off on tangents! If the petrodollar vanishes - countries shift selling oil from dollars to Euros and say Chinese Renminbi then that is a very big deal.
I don't think anyone will want to shift to Euros considering the Euro is tanking as we speak.
The only reason the European Union is staying afloat is b/c Germany keeps bailing everyone else out...how long you think it will be before Germany just says **** off and goes off and does their own thing? I recon not too much longer if they keep accepting countries like Greece in.
Moron, go read up on when Greece joined the EU/EC ...
Also, all the countries and investors who bailed out Greece (actually banks Greece owed to) are happy with the money they're earning from that deal now.
Now regarding the Euro "tanking", EUR:USD is higher than in January 2010...
Hi moron, you might want to pay attention a little harder on the state of the EU and why Germans are sick of it.
Originally by: captain foivos
Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Doom Nightmare
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Posted - 2010.11.03 16:49:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Doom Nightmare on 03/11/2010 16:50:34
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Moron, go read up on when Greece joined the EU/EC ...
Also, all the countries and investors who bailed out Greece (actually banks Greece owed to) are happy with the money they're earning from that deal now.
Now regarding the Euro "tanking", EUR:USD is higher than in January 2010...
Hi moron, you might want to pay attention a little harder on the state of the EU and why Germans are sick of it.
We are?  *hugs EU buddies tightly*
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.03 17:35:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Barakkus
Hi moron, you might want to pay attention a little harder on the state of the EU and why Germans are sick of it.
Btw: the euro has been trending downward over the last year quite significantly and is projected to keep on a downward trend through 2011.
Euhm, while we are lower than a year ago, the last 6 months the euro has been rising compared to the USD:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=EURUSD=X+Interactive#chart2:symbol=eurusd=x;range=6m;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
Euro -> GBP is pretty stable, if anything euro also increasing in worth. So how is the euro on a downwar trend?
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.11.03 18:28:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Barakkus
Hi moron, you might want to pay attention a little harder on the state of the EU and why Germans are sick of it.
Btw: the euro has been trending downward over the last year quite significantly and is projected to keep on a downward trend through 2011.
Euhm, while we are lower than a year ago, the last 6 months the euro has been rising compared to the USD:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=EURUSD=X+Interactive#chart2:symbol=eurusd=x;range=6m;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
Euro -> GBP is pretty stable, if anything euro also increasing in worth. So how is the euro on a downwar trend?
Because the trading has been lopsided artificially driving up the value of the euro over the last couple months, it's going to deflate again especially since the overal economic growth of the western europe is projected at 1% and below 1.7% through 2015. You have 20% unemployment in Spain and Greece not doing **** but getting worse with their unemployment numbers. You won't have the tax revenues coming in to reduce the deficits and interest payments are expected to hit 8% of gdp by 2013. Too much speculation on the euro atm for it not to crash and restabilize.
Originally by: captain foivos
Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Shmak DatAsh
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.11.03 21:34:00 -
[63]
World's gonna end in 2012 newayz... so who cares 
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Betty Boom
Caldari
SPECTRE Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.03 23:05:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Barakkus
Because the trading has been lopsided artificially driving up the value of the euro over the last couple months, it's going to deflate again especially since the overal economic growth of the western europe is projected at 1% and below 1.7% through 2015. You have 20% unemployment in Spain and Greece not doing **** but getting worse with their unemployment numbers. You won't have the tax revenues coming in to reduce the deficits and interest payments are expected to hit 8% of gdp by 2013. Too much speculation on the euro atm for it not to crash and restabilize.
Euro broke the 1,4050 mark today. We will see 1,50 to new year. Thank you, Helicopter Ben! The next $600 billion to burn.
Some corrections. Unemployment in Greece is 12 % like in Califonia. The GDB in Germany will grow 3,5% to 4%. And someting very good is, that UK & Germany got a double tax agreement with the Swiss. This will bring like Ç100 billions for both countries. ;-)
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.11.04 00:32:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Betty Boom
Originally by: Barakkus
Because the trading has been lopsided artificially driving up the value of the euro over the last couple months, it's going to deflate again especially since the overal economic growth of the western europe is projected at 1% and below 1.7% through 2015. You have 20% unemployment in Spain and Greece not doing **** but getting worse with their unemployment numbers. You won't have the tax revenues coming in to reduce the deficits and interest payments are expected to hit 8% of gdp by 2013. Too much speculation on the euro atm for it not to crash and restabilize.
Euro broke the 1,4050 mark today. We will see 1,50 to new year. Thank you, Helicopter Ben! The next $600 billion to burn.
Some corrections. Unemployment in Greece is 12 % like in Califonia. The GDB in Germany will grow 3,5% to 4%. And someting very good is, that UK & Germany got a double tax agreement with the Swiss. This will bring like Ç100 billions for both countries. ;-)
I didn't mention the rate of greece b/c I didn't have the exact number off hand, but it's certainly not going to go down, if anything it may stay where it's at, but it's doubtful in the short term. I would venture a guess they end up on par with spain by the end of Q1 of 2011.
Even at 2% economic growth (that encompases more than germany and the UK, they're not the entirety of western europe, although I'm sure both would like to think so) will not reduce unemployment.
I was unaware of the tax agreement though, that may help.
If the 500 billion pumped into the EU by the ECB doesn't work right (which it's just delaying the stabilization of the economy) you won't see 1.5 go into the next year. Hopefully it does, in the end a stronger euro and a stronger dollar may help everyone in the end.
Really, the rest of the EU needs to take some lessons from the Germans (as well as the rest of the world). Germans know what they're doing, and it would behoove the rest of the world to listen to them, not just expect them to bail their asses out to save the EU.
Originally by: captain foivos
Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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