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Wich skills NOT to train ?

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HiMyNameIsBoxxy	Posted - 2010.10.29 15:56:00 - [1] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Misanthra Nope, ocd says skill must go to 5. I think it has more to do with the intuitive, but actually very flawed, notion that higher level = better. TSM, like many skills, have side-effects, and it's far from uncommon that those side effects can grow faster than the benefits, so as you increase in levels, you reach a peak where the benefits still outweigh the disadvantages but going one step extra flips that relationship. It's also a matter of what you consider a benefit and a disadvantage. For instance, Repair Systems IV→Và great, you repair 6% more HP! But onoz, you lose cap 6% faster! I've seen plenty of posts from people who consider that disadvantage to greatly overshadow the benefit of faster repairsà Or take Afterburner IV→Và great, you now expend 7% less cap! But onoz, you have to wait an extra second before the AB turns off when you actually need it to shut off right now so you can get your agility back and start manoeuvring properly. TSM is the same. It has drawbacks. These drawbacks increase with level. There is a point where they even overcome the advantage the skill brings. Quoted from the TSM V thread. I would like to know wich skill does have "stealth" drawback like those one, my Search-Fu isn't strong enought to find anything ...
Yelan Zhou Amarr Ba.theen Aljannatal Asaakitah	Posted - 2010.10.29 16:22:00 - [2] I dont think repairing faster is a drawback, if I need to repair I often need to repair now. With the same logic one could say that firing your guns faster you empty your cap faster. Might be an issue in missions maybe. Tactical shield manipulation V seems to be a waste, at least I hear it often.
Nikolai Kondratiev Sphere Design Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.29 16:49:00 - [3] Edited by: Nikolai Kondratiev on 29/10/2010 16:51:25 It's only a drawback if you want to semi-afk missions/plexes and want to just turn on hardeners/repairers before starting and not ever manage them (and only if it makes your cap-stable fit not stable anymore) Same for afterburners 5 : it gives you 15 sec cycles instead of 14 sec cycles. So if you need to stop your AB between the 14th and 15th second of cycle, it saves you from 14 extra seconds of reduced maneuvrability , in other cases you just get 1 extra second. And TSM 5 is worthless, even without the potential drawbacks. _ Mining Crystal BPOs Angel Ships
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.29 19:11:00 - [4] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 29/10/2010 19:15:21 There are no bad skills. Most things in EVE are situational. One might argue that a rate-of-fire (RoF) increasing skill is bad because you spend more ISK on ammo, but you'd be overlooking the benefit of doing more DPS. * Tactical Shield Manipulation - reduces bleed threshold * Repair Systems - reduces module activation time (pre-req to capital repair) * Energy Pulse Weapons - reduces module activation time There are a few useless skill levels, but most of those are in Industry. Example: Industrial Construction 4&5 are completely useless.
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.29 19:54:00 - [5] good thing my OCD says "IV is fine" but Repair systems is prerequ for some other skills so that needs to V Itw as said (no idea how true it is) that Drone Sharpshooting might have a negative sideeffect, or was it Drone Navigation?
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Silvermane Enterprises SRS.	Posted - 2010.10.29 20:01:00 - [6] Theoretically, drone navigation could have a drawback, because drones can orbit so fast they can't hit things. This is negated by using the right drones for the job.
Mookie80 Amarr Rodents of Unusual Size	Posted - 2010.10.29 20:01:00 - [7] Drone Nav 5 makes some drones too fast to track. Which is bad.
Baneken Gallente School of the Unseen	Posted - 2010.10.29 20:05:00 - [8] It seems that bleed through is so rare on shields that having TSM V is pretty much a waste of time, though. As for repair systems V it's pretty much essential for running PvE armor tanks with only one repper. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.29 20:28:00 - [9] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 29/10/2010 20:30:31 Originally by: Mookie80 Drone Nav 5 makes some drones too fast to track. Which is bad. Drones don't MWD once in orbit around a target. However drones are known to have a real tough time when recalled in w-space when a Black Hole is present (unless that's been fixed).
Bibosikus Gallente The Wyld Hunt	Posted - 2010.10.30 02:24:00 - [10] Edited by: Bibosikus on 30/10/2010 02:27:11 Edited by: Bibosikus on 30/10/2010 02:26:14 The Drone Nav "bug" was fixed in Apoc iirc. It only affects the drone MWD speed, which is the speed a drone uses to get from source to target. Once it gets there it cuts to orbit speed (in the case of a Warrior II, that's 900m/s with tracking of 3.24) so no probs hitting slower targets). There are everyday common situations though when eg. a Warrior can't cut to orbit speed because the target is flying at way over 900m/s. I don't know the mechanics behind sorting that one out - but I do recall reading that the Drone Nav skill is more beneficial than not. So it's a good skill to have to V if you use combat drones a lot. EDIT: PS - Don't train Cap Ship skills. They're far too long and suck your patience dry :p
Baneken Gallente School of the Unseen	Posted - 2010.10.30 07:44:00 - [11] Thing with the cap skill is that you train them once you have everything else trained ie. after 3-4 years or so. :P http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers	Posted - 2010.10.30 08:51:00 - [12] Cloaking V is pretty pointless, unless you desparately want that extra 5% reduction in targeting delay on a non-CovOps cloak...
Vorekk	Posted - 2010.10.31 03:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Jovan Geldon Cloaking V is pretty pointless, unless you desparately want that extra 5% reduction in targeting delay on a non-CovOps cloak... Its a 10% reduction, which works out to be 1 second iirc. One second could make a huge difference, but spending 20+ days to train it....nah.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc. Adamant Inc	Posted - 2010.10.31 07:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Vorekk Originally by: Jovan Geldon Cloaking V is pretty pointless, unless you desparately want that extra 5% reduction in targeting delay on a non-CovOps cloak... Its a 10% reduction, which works out to be 1 second iirc. One second could make a huge difference, but spending 20+ days to train it....nah. On ships that can fit a covops cloak it can be useful, 5 or 6 second targeting delay which for Force Recons makes a big difference. ------ ADMI is recruiting. My EVE tutorials
Sazkyen State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.31 09:48:00 - [15] Edited by: Sazkyen on 31/10/2010 09:50:37 TBH, I always wondered why is not possible to set the repair/recharge/etc. amounts manually (within the range of zero to max learned). E.g., you are not forced to fly at max speed even though you have trained up the relevant skills. Ship comparison \| Razer Giveaway
Cery Madstar	Posted - 2010.10.31 10:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Sazkyen Edited by: Sazkyen on 31/10/2010 09:50:37 TBH, I always wondered why is not possible to set the repair/recharge/etc. amounts manually (within the range of zero to max learned). E.g., you are not forced to fly at max speed even though you have trained up the relevant skills. You can always choose the speed you want to fly at :S. Same goes for repairs, pulse it if its not running 100% stable.
Sazkyen State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.31 15:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Cery Madstar Originally by: Sazkyen Edited by: Sazkyen on 31/10/2010 09:50:37 TBH, I always wondered why is not possible to set the repair/recharge/etc. amounts manually (within the range of zero to max learned). E.g., you are not forced to fly at max speed even though you have trained up the relevant skills. You can always choose the speed you want to fly at :S. Same goes for repairs, pulse it if its not running 100% stable. Where did I say that you couldn't change speed? Ship comparison \| Razer Giveaway
Sakura Shiro	Posted - 2010.11.01 07:35:00 - [18] Edited by: Sakura Shiro on 01/11/2010 07:40:24 Rocket and light standard 5. For pve....by the time you get em they are pointless and time better spent to ham/hml on your cruisers/bc's. If looking to power grind for new NPC corp standing later...caracal works just fine (splurge for navy or train a cerb if really motivated lol) For pvp...t2 missiles have too many drawbacks imo so you end up using CN ammo anyway. Get better rof but at the cost of some crap fitting options. Ligth standard II...does horrible things to your pg/cpu so you end up killing lows to fit them full t2 fit. Get the 5% bonus to damage but....except for railrannis, inties are not meant to dps, jsut point. AF's, af already red headed step children, and the caldari ships are the red headed stepchildren of them. the 10 days for light 5....is your train anohter races frigate 5. Add 5 days for basic t2 guns, profit. Slight case can be made to get aml II from light 5....hams again a better option since they kill cruiser size nice as well. edit: HAm 5 is also 14 days....4 days over light 5, a better time investment.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2010.11.01 11:16:00 - [19] Afterburner (increased duration) can have a "stealth drawback" if you're trying to use an AB to bypass a long alignment time to escape a potential gate camp. That's pretty situational, though. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.01 11:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Sakura Shiro Edited by: Sakura Shiro on 01/11/2010 07:40:24 Rocket and light standard 5. For pve....by the time you get em they are pointless and time better spent to ham/hml on your cruisers/bc's. If looking to power grind for new NPC corp standing later...caracal works just fine (splurge for navy or train a cerb if really motivated lol) For pvp...t2 missiles have too many drawbacks imo so you end up using CN ammo anyway. Get better rof but at the cost of some crap fitting options. Ligth standard II...does horrible things to your pg/cpu so you end up killing lows to fit them full t2 fit. Get the 5% bonus to damage but....except for railrannis, inties are not meant to dps, jsut point. AF's, af already red headed step children, and the caldari ships are the red headed stepchildren of them. the 10 days for light 5....is your train anohter races frigate 5. Add 5 days for basic t2 guns, profit. Slight case can be made to get aml II from light 5....hams again a better option since they kill cruiser size nice as well. edit: HAm 5 is also 14 days....4 days over light 5, a better time investment. He was NOT talking about which skills aren't worth training (and I am of a different opinion than you ^^) the Op was asking about skills where training to V has a DISADVANTAGE for the player
Sjugar	Posted - 2010.11.01 14:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Orion GUardian He was NOT talking about which skills aren't worth training (and I am of a different opinion than you ^^) the Op was asking about skills where training to V has a DISADVANTAGE for the player Skills that aren't worth training (to V) are a disadvantage in that player now has spent time training a skill where player could have trained a skill that made player better. In that effect training a worthless skill is a disadvantage.
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.01 15:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Sjugar Originally by: Orion GUardian He was NOT talking about which skills aren't worth training (and I am of a different opinion than you ^^) the Op was asking about skills where training to V has a DISADVANTAGE for the player Skills that aren't worth training (to V) are a disadvantage in that player now has spent time training a skill where player could have trained a skill that made player better. In that effect training a worthless skill is a disadvantage. The QUestion which skill is worthless is not objective, while Disadvantages in terms of game mechanics IS objective. So If I think training "Mining Director" to V because I think those few percent more boost for every pilot in a mining fleet isn't worth the training time. But the Rorqual Pilot of an industrial corp will think otherwise
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2010.11.02 15:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Sakura Shiro Slight case can be made to get aml II from light 5....hams again a better option since they kill cruiser size nice as well. edit: HAm 5 is also 14 days....4 days over light 5, a better time investment. MMM AML II nano caracal sniping small missiles from 60 km away, or holding down helpless frigates / destroyers till they are gone? Are you absolutely sure that training HML / HAM is so much better when it comes to small targets? I.
Sakura Shiro	Posted - 2010.11.03 02:40:00 - [24] HAM more versatile....but tbh my last tour fo duty in null if on roams it was hac vs. hac (or nano BC's). See lots of frigates regularly...go for it. If going againt frigate heavy enemies might be useful. was in 2 alliance where never saw heavy frigate numbers in fleets (ours or the whoever we where blowing up). If you do see these numbers....cool. Wished I seen more of it. really is a shame the most fun ship class in the games (AF anyway...) is not loved by the null blobs. PVE use....meh, I kind of liked aml on a gila (drones killed big stuff, let named aml kill frigs). Preferred named to have pg/cpu for the drone fittings and some tank. If not running t2 launchers...learning the 5 not a good use of time. In time realized I am not a drone death play style type. Went back to my caracal variants, hml with rigor. More a snipe and kite play style person for pve. About disdvantages to this skill 5 since mentioned above: I am t2 qual'd for rockets and lights btw so know from experience...learned to t2 fit the crow to make the must be t2 people happy in corp. disadvantages I saw day 1....pulled off malkuths, put on t2's, pg told me to go die in a fire. Out went the 2nd od...in went a power mod. Crows are already slow for an inty. Inties live by speed and agility. Advantegoeus to pull an OD (or a nano if you like 2 nano's on your crow)....don't think so. AWU 4 my skill level, AWU 5 still has full t2 not fitting without that power mod in the lows iirc.
Starlight Twilight	Posted - 2010.11.05 20:18:00 - [25] Missile skills unless you are caladari, minmatar, or plan on flying bombers Star Light Star bright, The first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might, Have the wish I wish tonight. I wish for chocolate!
Shino Tu Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.06 11:18:00 - [26] Defender missles "Unhappy people expect the world to adapt to them and happy people adapt to the world."
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.06 15:02:00 - [27] Still that are (subjectively) USELESS skills and not HARMFUL ones but I think the amount of "harmful" skills is limited enough to say: We already had all of them
Jack Miton Caldari Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.09 04:14:00 - [28] Bomb Deployment II, III, IV and V. All totally useless. there are a lot of l5 skills that are useless but i dont think there are any that are 'harmful'. i have reard of people not training stuff like rapid firing 5 to save cap on their mission boats, but that's cos theyre noobs :P
Arnakoz	Posted - 2010.11.10 13:46:00 - [29] hmm, IMHO all science skills which do not unlock something at level 5 (electromagnetic physics for example) long distance jamming V (in a blackbird you;re already capable of jamming well beyond a range that most things could hit you, and level 5 wont save you from those that can) IMHO tactical shield manipulation is one... 4 yes, 5.. what does that two weeks really gain you? all of the SOCT learning skills at 5 - will literally take years for the ROI on those. unless you;re goal is max total points for the purpose of selling the char, i suppose... or, if you're really certain that you'll be playing for more than 3 years then they may be worth it. all of the ore processing skills to 5. they only come in handy if you MUST use the crappiest of facilities, and even then you;re not gaining much. salvaging 5. all this does is make salvaging go a little faster... but using a cormorant fit for salvaging, with level 3 or 4 salvaging, is more than fast enough. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/11764-Cormorant-Salvage-Monkey.html i put salvage tackle rigs on mine tho. pretty much all of the social skills. good for level 4, but 5 just doesn't seem that important compared to the times they generally take. besides, by the time you finish training it you should have the standings you need with whomever regardless..
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.11.11 05:37:00 - [30] Multitasking past 3 is pretty useless.. Actually, outside of logi when was the last time you NEEDED to target more than 6 things at the same time and weren't just not unlocking the last one because you were slack? So by that, Targeting to 5 is also useless, unless you are a logi pilot.. Support giving carebears new toys

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