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Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.14 05:33:00 -
[31]
I have now updated the audit with further details; and it can be viewed with the link below. If the investees would like charts like I did with NetherAnthem let me know and I can make that happen; though I believe that everything is laid out pretty clearly.
Halborn Audit
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 11:03:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Halborn on 14/11/2010 11:02:49
Thanks Calypsa for the updated one.
I will await responses from Raw23 and Taram Caldar as they have already stated the intention to fulfill the entirety of the loan between them but thank you for the provisional offer :)
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.14 13:56:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Halborn
Edited by: Halborn on 14/11/2010 11:02:49
Thanks Calypsa for the updated one.
I will await responses from Raw23 and Taram Caldar as they have already stated the intention to fulfill the entirety of the loan between them but thank you for the provisional offer :)
well it was worth a shot heh, they should honestly leave some for us little guys  |
Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 14:43:00 -
[34]
Well discuss with the other two I dont mind how much each contribute to the loan.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.14 15:00:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Halborn
Well discuss with the other two I dont mind how much each contribute to the loan.
nah its alright, i invested the isk into other things just now so no worries
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 15:18:00 -
[36]
okay, well thanks for the offer i do appreciate it :)
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.14 15:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Halborn
okay, well thanks for the offer i do appreciate it :)
well np, was just trying to get a piece of the pie really 
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.14 15:38:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 14/11/2010 15:40:42
Questions:
Auditor:
I see that you eve-searched the main character to check forum activity, character sales, etc. Did you check the alts as well? It's not specifically stated so wanted to double check.
Note: This is for your benefit as well as mine. Hopefully my questions will help you refine your audit process going forward so that you eventually attain a rep to rival that of VV and others here ;)
Questions for Halborn based on the audit:
How do you project to pay back 2.6 billion isk in principle in 30 days when you are only making approximately 1/10th of that in profit now? An ORCA *will* boost your mining yield but if you're only cutting 250mil/month profit (roughly) then your monthly yield with the orca is only going to be about 300mil/month unless you drastically increase your time at mining. It's possible, with a mining alt and an orca alt running in tandem to clear 70mil-90mil isk/day but it's about 6hrs/day of mining and I don't see you doing that right now or you'd be running around 40-50mil isk/day currently, which you are not.
Also you state that you plan to do capital construction. With only about 450 million isk in wallet how do you plan to purchase (And research) the capital component BPO's to make it profitable? If you're buying BPC packs the profit margins on making freighters is *very* low. Capital ships only become very profitable when you're using your own BPO's, and even then only if you have researched the component BPO's up so that their ME and PE are solid.
Because this is for a character purchase it's not like a normal bond because normally a bond is just for capital to buy stockpiles of goods to re-sell so the capital is never *gone* just invested in buy orders... and can be re-gained quite easily by selling the stock you bought and/or cancelling buy orders to refund investors at the end of the loan. In this case, however, you will be spending the capital on a non-sale item (A character) which means that the only means of repaying investors is by making 2.6 billion isk (plus profit for yourself) in a 1 month period. As of right now you've not shown the ability to generate that kind of income.
Looking forward to feedback.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 16:12:00 -
[39]
Unfortunatly the Audit hasn't shown what i have in my hangar ready to sell. Yes i plan to increase my mining time per day drastically. With 2 hulks and an orca i've calculated my yield for when i get the mindlink (which is what i am training cybernetics for but i still need Director to V so will not be purchased for the duration of the loan). The yield per minute is gonna be in 4000 mark with current orca boosts. So I've calculated i can make the loan back within 21 days with a minimum of 6 hours a day mining. Also the audit doesn't mention the duration since i started my current tech 2 business. It has had alot of setup costs with PI the POS modules refining the build datacores and so with plex needed to for my accounts this week my wallet is low. I am expecting a 700mil boost to my wallet in the next few days. Therefore not only will i be making the isk via mining i'll have a little extra coming from my tech 2 business.
As to the risk stated of not being able to repay the bond. I have around 1b isk invested in a pos. If worst comes to the worst i can liquidate assets and get half of the invested price back. I highly doubt that this will happen. I have access to kernite which is approx. 23mil per can of ore. At 4000m3 per minute i estimate roughly 133 hours of mining kernite solidly. Allowing for market costs taxes and other variables lets make it 145 hours of mining. If i mine 6 hours a day thats 24 days repayment, 6 days to spare. Ofcourse, I understand there is a level of trust. It is with any investment and with no collateral its even worse but I can promise to be mining like a trooper. I've already started mining more over the last week and will double up if I get the isk for this new pilot.
For the capital construction I want to explain myself better. When i planned it out I could have generated that kind of cash in 6 months to start. I am the kind of person that likes to act fast on plans. Now I knew asking for a loan for the BPO's would not be likely filled due to the figure needed and my little to nothing MD experience. Thats why I decided to ask for a loan for a new hulk character. I was gonna get him anyway and once I pay back the loan it gives me credibility with MD as a reliable investor. So once i've paid this back i plan to either make a bond or request another loan to cover the bpo. I have labs that I can research the ME and PE with no difficulty and I can fly a freighter so it is easy to move to sell.
To answer some of the Auditor questions although not directed to me I have only accidently posted as my alt once and only really post under Halborn. I recently lost a hauler with some stock in through suicide gank and it was a silly mistake and i've learnt from it as I can transport securly with an orca and I also have contacts that can fly freighter to transport and will not be moving stuff unless it is secured.
Hope this answered your questions
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.14 16:44:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 14/11/2010 16:45:45
Yes, thank you. I'd still like to see the audit updated with the information requested.
Also the auditor should confirm stock you have on hand by having you show the contents of your hangar in a trade window (just pointing out a method of confirming that information) then cancelling the trade when they finish confirming the items.
Not saying I don't trust you, just saying how the auditor should be confirming claims of this type (it's their job after all and what they're being paid to do).
As to the mining numbers I somehow goofed up and thought you were only going to have 1 hulk mining. You are correct with 2 hulks and an orca mining 6hrs per day you should easily make up the isk barring unexpected expenses.
Even if all you did was mine and sell minerals you should be able to pay this back. Sorry for my mix-up thinking it was only going to be 1 hulk and 1 orca.
I do have concerns on burnout though if you actually intend to mine 6hrs per day. Been there, done it, it gets old fast. You may want to consider extending this to a 2 month bond just so you reduce how much time you HAVE to mine to pay things back. Also puts a lot more profit in your own pockets in the short term and only slighly less profit in the long term. If you're looking for faster realization of plans this may help your overall plan because you'll have more capital, faster, in the short term.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 16:57:00 -
[41]
I was considering that actually a few minutes ago. I was wondering if it would ease some concerns for you if it was over 2 months. The main issue isn't to do with further interest on the loan because I dont really mind about that its just that the sooner I can start the capital construction the faster I can pay back the loan. I mean my estimation for the profits per month I can make from the Capital construction payment far exceeds the loan i'm requesting here.
Now I don't want to rush investors but there is a possible pilot i've found that would be really good and i'd like to get it before someone else does. Will you be wanting the full audit before investing? I understand if you do
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.14 17:03:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 14/11/2010 17:04:03
@Taram,
Yes I checked the alts and there was nothing out of line and relatively no postings available. Kill mails didn't show anything that would arise suspicion.
@Halborn,
I will double check your assets real quick, but I only calculated at best 1.7b ... I will do a good overview again today but I did go thru everything before using EVE Assets & EVE Meep. That's not to say I didn't overlook something... but as it stands now 1.7b assets at best; I will post tomorrow if I find anything different.
EDIT: Will update with killmail stats and alt posting information tomorrow as well. Have to work today gents :)
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 17:30:00 -
[43]
So i've had an ingame correspondance with someone willing to invest the full investment. I do not wish to appear rude but I would like to get started with this and get the pilot so I will give a deadline of 20:00 GMT. If you want to invest let me know before then. if you are not completly happy without a full audit I completly understand and I will take the ingame offer I have recieved. I appreciate your offers but I am on a timeline.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.14 17:33:00 -
[44]
Confirming my offer of investment for the full amount at 2.6b
Sev
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.11.14 17:43:00 -
[45]
I'll step aside on this, thanks. I was a little concerned about your comment in the Zoidberg thread but thought that this was probably a throw away line. On the other hand, if you have someone else lined up I'll take the opportunity to play ultra-safe. Good luck with everything!
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 18:04:00 -
[46]
Okay Raw np at all. The comment I made on the Zoidberg thread i can see how it was a bit worrying. You are right it was just a throw away comment and probably not the way i'd actually act because i dont believe in taking someone else hard work. Just shocked to see that in 4 couriers tbh :P
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.14 19:32:00 -
[47]
If you have an offer for the full amount I'm willing to step back as well.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 19:43:00 -
[48]
Okay Taram. Thanks for both your provisional offers though and also the questions you asked. This is a learning experience for me being my first loan request and i'm sure you're questions have helped for this and future posts. Also thank you to Calypsa for working through the problems you have had with the audit due to API changes and work and still delivering.
I will updated this post for repayments as they happen.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.14 20:02:00 -
[49]
Confirming my investment in this project. Have transfered 2.6b in full to Halborn
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 20:03:00 -
[50]
Confirming I have received the 2.6bn and to confirm this will be repaid in a month with 10% interest.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.17 00:04:00 -
[51]
Just tossing in my .02, but as I was re-reading everything I decided to take one more peek at this to make sure I didn't miss anything in my audit; and it doesn't appear to me that there was every any transfer made between Seven Sins and Halborn, nor any other Characters disclosed to me by Halborn.
... Could be I missed something, but I didn't see any and I just rechecked.. slightly suspicious.
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Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.17 08:36:00 -
[52]
Could you re-check, here is proof of the transfer leaving my account :)
Note the time is only a few minutes ago too :)
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
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Posted - 2010.11.17 09:05:00 -
[53]
Interesting read. I'm still curious if this was a scam or not.
So is the auditor saying that the 2.6b transfer wallet image is fake?
And why is the ISK balance blacked out when it's on display in dozens of other places in the same image?
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Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.17 09:10:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Seven Sins on 17/11/2010 09:14:41
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Interesting read. I'm still curious if this was a scam or not.
So is the auditor saying that the 2.6b transfer wallet image is fake?
And why is the ISK balance blacked out when it's on display in dozens of other places in the same image?
What you see in the image is transactions from the journal. I am the investee, my capital is private for now :)
If this image is not enough, then I am happy to prove it some other way without revealing my overal worth. Maybe take a picture later today with people confirming the date in the signatures channel?
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Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:05:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 17/11/2010 14:09:48
As I had stated above, I may have missed it; I will gladly review the transactions one more time. I know Seven Sins has been around the forums so I didn't really think it was a scam, so as I said I'll do a double check this evening after work.
EDIT: The only thing about that image that looks "fishy" so to speak is that you screen-printed it on the 17th, and if you look it says the 17th in your search box, yet it is showing transactions from the 14th, and the scroll bar is all the way up showing those are the most recent transactions; which is quite odd to have 3 day old transactions be your most recent on an active character. :) Either way I'm not going to point the evil scam finger until I get home tonight and double check everything...
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Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:22:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Seven Sins on 17/11/2010 14:24:01
Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus
Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 17/11/2010 14:09:48
As I had stated above, I may have missed it; I will gladly review the transactions one more time. I know Seven Sins has been around the forums so I didn't really think it was a scam, so as I said I'll do a double check this evening after work.
EDIT: The only thing about that image that looks "fishy" so to speak is that you screen-printed it on the 17th, and if you look it says the 17th in your search box, yet it is showing transactions from the 14th, and the scroll bar is all the way up showing those are the most recent transactions; which is quite odd to have 3 day old transactions be your most recent on an active character. :) Either way I'm not going to point the evil scam finger until I get home tonight and double check everything...
Look at the Cheverons... I had to go back approx 5 pages :) Nothing fishy about that at all
EDIT: Chevrons are next to the load button.
I feel quite flattered that I am being considered an alt scammer lol!
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Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:26:00 -
[57]
I don't think your an alt; been around too long for that, and as I said I'm not waving the scam finger around; I just didn't see any change in Halborn's wallet last night (Though there's been several long nights at work heh).. also perhaps I'm a bit daft here, but I don't believe the chevrons show how many pages back you are =p
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Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:34:00 -
[58]
Recent proof.. for your convenience I have narrowed the transactions down for you. I have hidden private investments but let public ones remain if you choose to verify that way.
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:39:00 -
[59]
To put the scam comment to bed I have uploaded player donations. The reason you may not have noticed a change is because I paid for the character pretty much straight after recieving sevens loan. Seven is not an alt of mine as you will probably tell by character age
Here is the wallet transactions:
Proof
Also here is the thread for the character that i purchased with the investment:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1414750
hope this answers all possible worries
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:54:00 -
[60]
Looks to be on the up and up, no harm intended and you are probably right Halborn, I didn't know you shuffled all the funds out that quick :); so I missed it in the skimming. No harm intended :D
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