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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.01 21:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Halborn on 01/11/2010 21:06:24
Dear MD,
This is my first request and I would like to thank you firstly for taking the time to read this.
 So what do you want the loan for?
I currently run a tech 2 manufacturing business that turns over a fairly good rate of profit. I have come up with a way to expand my current business model by adding capital construction (specifically the Providence) onto my building program. As many manufacturers will know the vast mineral requirements for such a task means significantly more mining. I fully understand the logic that mining the minerals is not free and I have factored in the cost of selling on the ore and I will come out with a profit regardless (I am happy to disclose the figures to an Investor in a personal conversation). I prefer to mine my minerals than purchase. I will however need an additional Hulk pilot to help my mining efforts. Therefore I am requesting a loan currently to purchase a Hulk pilot that I have had my eye on the last few days.
Risks
All my mining will take place in High-Sec. I've been a miner for well over 2 years (this is my main character and am willing to get an audit if you would like one to ease your mind). I am pretty sensible and I will be mining with orca support so I have calculated the rate of isk I can generate.
No Collateral - I fully accept that this will put many people off. Unfortunately I dont have anything that will reach the figure requested as I use my assets to produce Isk. As stated above I'm willing to get an audit to prove that i've got a sound mind when it comes to business strategy.
I get bored of mining - When I discussed this plan with my ingame friends I did hear alot of "You'll get bored fast". But this is highly unlikely. I am currently studying at uni and my course involves alot of course reading material. Whilst I mine I can study I'm pretty good at multi-tasking and I have dual monitors so its easy to manage.
Its a scam? - When I originally decided I needed a Loan I looked in Length at ways to improve my request here so as to show you all that i'm an honest player and i'm not trying to scam anyone. I have 2 character references who have agreed to vouch for my character and will be more than happy to talk to you if it eases your mind with this request.
Okay, Say I gave you this Loan when will I get it back
The repayment Plan i've have worked out based on my current skills with the new pilot id buy my current main and the orca boosting and other sources of income I can repay the loan in full with 10% interest in one month. This may seem like a very short time but I play alot I have alot of time on my hands and this is perfectly viable. (If you would like more details I'd be more than happy to fill you in with a private message ingame or on the forums).
So to Conclude,
I am requesting a 2.6b isk loan @ 10% with complete repayment in 30 days.
The money will go towards funding a new alt for my business model I plan to implement.
Unfortunatly, I have no collateral I can put up for the loan.
I am willing to pay for an audit if that is what is requested.
My character References are:
ZenSun
Loita Cuirse.
Once again thanks for reading and I hope I have provided a detailed and honest request and hope to here from you soon with possible offers.
Regards,
Halborn
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
ZenSun
Total Mayhem.
Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.11.01 21:06:00 -
[2]
I havent any personal affairs with MD previously, however I am posting to personally vouch for Halborn, very dedicated, legit and helpful guy with a great attitude.
Goodluck,
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Chigy
Minmatar
The Smoggies
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Posted - 2010.11.02 03:35:00 -
[3]
What happens if you get wardecced and they decide to target your tower??
What happens if you do not get the toon you want? (You get outbid/seller backs out)
What happens if your play time drastically changes? Will you try to sell the toon to repay the loan?
Don't expect to get this filled.
Any loan based on buying a mission ship/buying a toon do NOT leave the ground.
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.02 03:35:00 -
[4]
Edited by: egola on 02/11/2010 03:39:15
what's your relation to OP? if you aren't exactly personal to MD what exactly makes you "trustworthy" to our eyes?
like wise OP, the fact that you are using isk to purchase character does not inspire confidence,the fact that you know about character purchasing, whats not to say you would bio all your characters and just keep the 2.6 billion?
now one thing that bugs me, is 2.6bill, you CAN make it by mining your own mineral and manufacture+sell however explain to me the scale of your operation because lets assume that you make a 30% turnover from your minerals, so lets just assume that means you need about 1.8-1.9b worth of ore.....split that to 30 days its roughly 60-70mill worth of ore each day, to get that amount you would need to mine ATLEAST 4-5hrs each day and on top of that, you would also need to manage market orders and refuel POS (if there is any in question, if not ignore). this is of course, just covering principle.
assuming that you DO have about 5 hrs a day to play eve, there is still no guarantees, considering that those that know you well aren't exactly "chribba" or close to it on the MD. theres little distinction between your post and a scam post.
now my Two Isks: it sounds legit, its do-able given enough time, but i would wait for the audit (recommend breaker or calypsa, but considering that the patch is coming up the auditting software'll be broken)
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.02 12:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 02/11/2010 12:46:01
My questions:
1) What is your plan in case of not getting the character you want? Orca pilots vary in price and can range anywhere from 2bil to about 3.5bil depending on what support skills they posses.
2) Someone else made a very good point: As you are in a player corp you can be wardecced. What is your plan in case of this eventuality? (yes, it does happen).
3) Do you have any POS? I ask because if you do I want to know if you've factored the expense of running them (and the time requirements) into your calculations?
4) What is your current NAV?
Now some suggestions:
1) Extend this to a 2 or even 3 month bond offering. It will reduce the pressure a LOT on how much isk you have to make per day and allow you to keep some of your profit. Nothing burns someone out faster than having NO income despite tons of work. This way, if you really can handle the 60-70mil a day requirement to pay this off in 1 month you'll actually be able to relax a little and enjoy the game.
2) Detail an exit strategy: Should nothing go right what is your plan to repay the bond? How will you recover the isk for your investors? Sell the alt? Sell GTC's? (roughly 4 would be needed) what?
3) Definitely get an Audit. Talk to the Audit fund about possibly having them cover the cost so that you have less initial outlay. A good audit will run you about 25-50million isk/character/account that needs to be audited. A full audit will be on all your characters and all your accounts.
4) Disclose now if you have other characters (but not your names, an auditor can confirm that you have other characters but will not disclose your character's names unless you default on the bond). It WILL come out in the audit if you do and you don't want potential investors to get any 'surprises' they aren't expecting in the results.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.02 13:15:00 -
[6]
Thanks for the response I will try to answer your questions the best I can.
Firstly, I think I was a bit unclear with my income. I make probably a very steady income with my current building (probably between 1-1.6b a month profit). I do own a POS and have been running it for well over a month and its been going quite well. I mine my ice and haul it back to keep it going. Incase of wardec. I will first look at the target and decide if it is a risk to my POS. If they appear to be after my POS I have standings to be able to pull it down and put it back up. I would like to mention however that the repayment plan was calculated excluding profits I make from the POS.
Next question was if I do not get the character I want what next? Well as you can tell I still have income and I still have my a hulk and orca so I can continue to make the repayments. Also the type of character I am looking for are numerous (I count atleast 5 or 6 that are similar at present).
My playtime has been pretty similar for the last few months now. I can guarentee it will not change for the duration of the loan. As stated I'm at uni and tbh my course has few lectures (4 or 5 a week) rest of the time I am on EVE in some shape or form. I dont have many other RL commitments that stop or alter game time. (In the interest of full disclosure I will be away this weekend to visit my mom for her birthday but thats one weekend in the 3 months i've been back at uni).
ZenSun is an Eve friend of mine so no personal RL bias. He is in a different corp to me and so has no beneficial bias.
The reason for the loan is simply time. I could earn that 2.6b eventually then buy the character and so forth but this would take atleast 2 months with 1 hulk 1 orca currently. I would like to expand my business that I do in the next month or so and Having this pilot upfront ready to go would mean that the expansion is much more closer to implementation than if I saved. I also would like to build some portfolio on the forums here to present myself as an honest person and to have a good reputation amongst other MD'ers. In regards to the question about keeping the 2.6b I completely understand that this is a risk and has happened before but I play eve for the achievement. I enjoy successfully running a tech 2 operation far more than cheating money from someone who earnt it the hard way. So in my eyes a scam is no achievement at all and it'll only generate bad reputation.
Right, my current setup is I have a reasonably well trained orca pilot (hes working on Director to V and such) and a very good Hulk Pilot (This guy) who also has remote trading abilities. I am able to manage the market orders quite well. I've had previous experience with station trading and the audit hopefully will bring that up to show that I have an understanding of the working of trading and that I turned probably 100-200m into 400m in a short space of time (guessing the figures but they are within 50m as it was a few months since I have changed focus to my manufacturing now).
I had planned to do a minimum of 6 hours of day preferably 8 to repay the loan. I understand the commitment. As I said life-long miner so really with the time I have and the fact i'll be reading and not staring at the asteroids I will be able to meet that.
Yes I agree I dont have the backing of MD and chribba which is something that concerned me before I put in the request. All I can really add here is that my character references are in no ways connected to me in RL or via corp so they have no gains when it comes to vouching for me. Also I've tried to fill the request with as much detail to show to you that I have thought of every avenue and I can be trusted.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.11.02 13:21:00 -
[7]
I might be interested in putting up to 1bil in this subject to your answers to Tarams questions. I would, though, like to hear a bit more about your current business, such as monthly profitability, as I assume that your repayment plans will not be based solely on your mining income. I would also be interested in seeing your projected profits from the capital building plan:
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.02 13:26:00 -
[8]
Continued...
To answer your questions Taram.
1) My main concern for the character is that it has Exhumers and can use tech 2 crystals. The pilot I am interested in is slightly more expensive as it has further skills but a Hulk pilot can be sold for less than what I am requesting so If i miss out on the pilot I would like I will look for a good pilot with no more than 2.5b cost. I currently have an alt in an orca which i will disclose all alts at the end of this post.
2) If wardec occurs I will analyse my situation and protect my assets where appropriate. If it eases your mind I can pay back in weekly installments so that you will see that I am fulfilling the loan and if a wardec does occur and it slows down my production I will add further ISK onto the interest for any overdue repayment.
3) yes I run a POS and have been for atleast a month. Again I have hours so really I can mine enough ice to fuel it for 2 weeks in one night (even faster with this alt as i can run 2 macks). I produce all the PI required myself across my alts.
4) My current NAV based on BPO's (Which probably come to 50-100m) Ships (Including orca, hulk, mack, and a few bits and bob frigs about 500-600m) POS (probably 300mil if including a lab or two). So i'd say my NAV is a humble 1-1.5b. I cant get an accurate figure as the servers are down currently.
Thanks for those tips. For an exit strategy if all else fails I can simply resell the character for and repay the loan that way. I mean if i cant sell it for the same price i bought it i reckon i can liquidate enough to cover the shortfall but i see no reason why it should not sell for a similar buy price.
I will look at getting an audit but I hear this new API changes are going to mess up the Audit'ing process so i'm not sure on the speed I can get an audit.
I currently hold 3 accounts. This is my main character, a second account is with my orca pilot and his primary role is boosting for mining. My third account has a more combat orientated pilot who is currently in a drake and is training core skills.
Thanks for all the advice and I will look into getting an audit for you
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.02 13:29:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: RAW23
I might be interested in putting up to 1bil in this subject to your answers to Tarams questions. I would, though, like to hear a bit more about your current business, such as monthly profitability, as I assume that your repayment plans will not be based solely on your mining income. I would also be interested in seeing your projected profits from the capital building plan:
Is there a way for me to send a forum private message with full details of my income. I'm a little wary about releasing full details of my finances on public forum just because you know its similar to trade secrets I dont want a flurry coming into the market I possess. I dont mind sending one to you also taram if you would like further details.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
flakeys
DRAMA Inc
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.11.02 13:36:00 -
[10]
Two things , first off looking at your writing here and having had a look at your posting history i am rather sure it is not a scam.
That said i do however have a hard time with people who need a loan for a mining character to build items and same goes for mission characters.If you want to make profit you don't mine it , you buy it and build it.There is NO extra profit from mining but there can be however a huge extra profit from buying the minerals.
I understand if you are a miner and you like it then you obviously keep that going wich is fine.But it should be to get some extra minerals and NOT to increase your profit as it seems you have the idea and i know other miners have that same sence of thinking.I used to be one of them when i returned to eve 3 years ago with only a loaned hulk as asset and from there started going for cap production.
So in short i believe your honesty but i think you should give your idea a 2nd thought badly.You can get the profits you want with a lot less time spent and without that mining character.
In short it's wasting interest payments from profits wich could be a lot higher is my belief and as said i don't hand out loans myself for the purchase of buuying characters.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.11.02 13:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Halborn
Originally by: RAW23
I might be interested in putting up to 1bil in this subject to your answers to Tarams questions. I would, though, like to hear a bit more about your current business, such as monthly profitability, as I assume that your repayment plans will not be based solely on your mining income. I would also be interested in seeing your projected profits from the capital building plan:
Is there a way for me to send a forum private message with full details of my income. I'm a little wary about releasing full details of my finances on public forum just because you know its similar to trade secrets I dont want a flurry coming into the market I possess. I dont mind sending one to you also taram if you would like further details.
Evemail. I can wait till its back up.
flakeys, you might want to have a look at my very first bond again, which you filled a large chunk of  Admittedly, they werent mining toons though.
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.02 13:49:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Halborn on 02/11/2010 13:53:13
Yeah waiting for the servers at the moment. Evegate is not accepting logins so I guess it wont come up until servers are online. I can send you it then Raw23.
Also does anyone have a link to some threads for reputable Auditors?
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
flakeys
DRAMA Inc
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.11.02 13:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Halborn
Originally by: RAW23
I might be interested in putting up to 1bil in this subject to your answers to Tarams questions. I would, though, like to hear a bit more about your current business, such as monthly profitability, as I assume that your repayment plans will not be based solely on your mining income. I would also be interested in seeing your projected profits from the capital building plan:
Is there a way for me to send a forum private message with full details of my income. I'm a little wary about releasing full details of my finances on public forum just because you know its similar to trade secrets I dont want a flurry coming into the market I possess. I dont mind sending one to you also taram if you would like further details.
Evemail. I can wait till its back up.
flakeys, you might want to have a look at my very first bond again, which you filled a large chunk of Admittedly, they werent mining toons though.
We got a saying here wich says there is an exception to every rule and i believe so far your the exception to all my investment rules.The only thing missing is to not invest just because you got a name because well i was with you from the start when yu had no MD rep so that rule can never be broken with you .
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.02 21:11:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 02/11/2010 21:16:13
Based on your answers if you get an audit and the results are in line with what I expect I am in for 1.5 bil.
Thanks!
Flakeys: While I agree with you I'm not gonna tell the guy how to make his money. If he wants to buy a mining toon and can repay the bond, I really don't care :)
Basically: As an investor as long as the person I'm investing isn't a scammer or involved in scamming and has convinced me that they are worth investing in? I don't care how they intend to make the money as long as they do.
That said, OP: Flakeys is giving you excellent advice.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.02 21:15:00 -
[15]
My apologies for the delay on the Evemail. Got tired of waiting for servers so went for a little sleep and got back to find internet down. Its up now so i'm downloading new patch and evemail will be there in 10 mins.
Fantastic Taram thanks very much for the belief in me. I will get you that audit.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.02 21:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Halborn
Is there a way for me to send a forum private message with full details of my income. I'm a little wary about releasing full details of my finances on public forum just because you know its similar to trade secrets I dont want a flurry coming into the market I possess. I dont mind sending one to you also taram if you would like further details.
Missed this.
While it's not contingent upon anything yeah I'd love to see those figures. Feel free to evemail it to me or mail it to me @ [email protected]
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.02 21:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Halborn
Is there a way for me to send a forum private message with full details of my income. I'm a little wary about releasing full details of my finances on public forum just because you know its similar to trade secrets I dont want a flurry coming into the market I possess. I dont mind sending one to you also taram if you would like further details.
Missed this.
While it's not contingent upon anything yeah I'd love to see those figures. Feel free to evemail it to me or mail it to me @ [email protected]
Evemail coming your way in a few mins
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.11.02 22:21:00 -
[18]
Subject to satisfactory audit I'll take the remaining 1.1bil (you may have to wait a while for this, though, as I understand that most of the key auditing tools have been messed up by the API changes). However, I would also agree with flakeys comments above and with Taram's in his mail that there may well be better ways of maximising your profit. Give me a shout tomorrow and we can talk about some of the possibilities.
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Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.02 23:46:00 -
[19]
Posting to confirm OP has contacted me requesting an audit. I have agreed to the audit with the knowledge it may take some time while fixes for the recent API changes are implemented. Therefore the audit will be completed when I feel there is sufficient information for the investor's to view; so please realize the timeline is a bit sketchy at the moment :) If everything goes well, 1 week.
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.02 23:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: RAW23
Subject to satisfactory audit I'll take the remaining 1.1bil (you may have to wait a while for this, though, as I understand that most of the key auditing tools have been messed up by the API changes). However, I would also agree with flakeys comments above and with Taram's in his mail that there may well be better ways of maximising your profit. Give me a shout tomorrow and we can talk about some of the possibilities.
I will contact you tomorrow to chat and such :) thanks for your offers and hopefully the API changes haven't messed up things too bad
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.07 20:36:00 -
[21]
Any status on the audit?
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.08 11:34:00 -
[22]
I was away over the weekend so couldn't get on.
I will contact Calypsa and get an update :)
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.08 15:57:00 -
[23]
Audit is still underway. I had my monthly military obligation this weekend. Have had some bumps in the road due to API changes as well, but nothing too critical. 1 account has been completely audited, 2 remain.
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.08 16:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus
Audit is still underway. I had my monthly military obligation this weekend. Have had some bumps in the road due to API changes as well, but nothing too critical. 1 account has been completely audited, 2 remain.
Thanks for the update. Do you have a rough date of completion?
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.08 18:55:00 -
[25]
As long as my work schedule doesn't get too hectic for RL, I should have it completed before the end of this week. Earliest Wed/Thurs, Latest Sat Night.
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.12 03:39:00 -
[26]
thanks for the update Calypsa :)
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.14 00:03:00 -
[27]
Audit overview is complete. I have spoken to Halborn and let him know I have not been able to compile in-depth documentation yet due mainly to RL work schedule, and secondarily API changes. I have told Halborn that I can continue with an in depth report if requested by the investors; though this will take a few more day.
I will leave it up to the investee's to decide whether they need me to continue or not; if you wish me to I cannot guarantee completion until next weekend; as I had to work this weekend and that was not planned.
Here is the overview: Click
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.14 01:24:00 -
[28]
Please finish the Audit. What's there is not enough.
Important note: Do not disclose his alt names. It's un-necessary. All I need to know about alts is if the auditor found any questionable corp history and what their skill capabilities are and if they can be used in the way the IPO/BOND offer claims they can.
The current document is very incomplete and doesn't give me enough information to determine anything. Of vital importance is NAV information, skills information, posting history (anything shady?) etc.
Right now none of that information is available in the audit.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.14 02:22:00 -
[29]
Taram,
Not a problem, just will take a bit longer.
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egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.14 05:05:00 -
[30]
props to calypsa for sticking by the thread even with RL demands reprimanding ya. please post your results whenever you're ready and if all goes well throw me in for 400-500m
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Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.14 05:33:00 -
[31]
I have now updated the audit with further details; and it can be viewed with the link below. If the investees would like charts like I did with NetherAnthem let me know and I can make that happen; though I believe that everything is laid out pretty clearly.
Halborn Audit
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 11:03:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Halborn on 14/11/2010 11:02:49
Thanks Calypsa for the updated one.
I will await responses from Raw23 and Taram Caldar as they have already stated the intention to fulfill the entirety of the loan between them but thank you for the provisional offer :)
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.14 13:56:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Halborn
Edited by: Halborn on 14/11/2010 11:02:49
Thanks Calypsa for the updated one.
I will await responses from Raw23 and Taram Caldar as they have already stated the intention to fulfill the entirety of the loan between them but thank you for the provisional offer :)
well it was worth a shot heh, they should honestly leave some for us little guys  |
Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 14:43:00 -
[34]
Well discuss with the other two I dont mind how much each contribute to the loan.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.14 15:00:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Halborn
Well discuss with the other two I dont mind how much each contribute to the loan.
nah its alright, i invested the isk into other things just now so no worries
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 15:18:00 -
[36]
okay, well thanks for the offer i do appreciate it :)
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.14 15:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Halborn
okay, well thanks for the offer i do appreciate it :)
well np, was just trying to get a piece of the pie really
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.14 15:38:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 14/11/2010 15:40:42
Questions:
Auditor:
I see that you eve-searched the main character to check forum activity, character sales, etc. Did you check the alts as well? It's not specifically stated so wanted to double check.
Note: This is for your benefit as well as mine. Hopefully my questions will help you refine your audit process going forward so that you eventually attain a rep to rival that of VV and others here ;)
Questions for Halborn based on the audit:
How do you project to pay back 2.6 billion isk in principle in 30 days when you are only making approximately 1/10th of that in profit now? An ORCA *will* boost your mining yield but if you're only cutting 250mil/month profit (roughly) then your monthly yield with the orca is only going to be about 300mil/month unless you drastically increase your time at mining. It's possible, with a mining alt and an orca alt running in tandem to clear 70mil-90mil isk/day but it's about 6hrs/day of mining and I don't see you doing that right now or you'd be running around 40-50mil isk/day currently, which you are not.
Also you state that you plan to do capital construction. With only about 450 million isk in wallet how do you plan to purchase (And research) the capital component BPO's to make it profitable? If you're buying BPC packs the profit margins on making freighters is *very* low. Capital ships only become very profitable when you're using your own BPO's, and even then only if you have researched the component BPO's up so that their ME and PE are solid.
Because this is for a character purchase it's not like a normal bond because normally a bond is just for capital to buy stockpiles of goods to re-sell so the capital is never *gone* just invested in buy orders... and can be re-gained quite easily by selling the stock you bought and/or cancelling buy orders to refund investors at the end of the loan. In this case, however, you will be spending the capital on a non-sale item (A character) which means that the only means of repaying investors is by making 2.6 billion isk (plus profit for yourself) in a 1 month period. As of right now you've not shown the ability to generate that kind of income.
Looking forward to feedback.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 16:12:00 -
[39]
Unfortunatly the Audit hasn't shown what i have in my hangar ready to sell. Yes i plan to increase my mining time per day drastically. With 2 hulks and an orca i've calculated my yield for when i get the mindlink (which is what i am training cybernetics for but i still need Director to V so will not be purchased for the duration of the loan). The yield per minute is gonna be in 4000 mark with current orca boosts. So I've calculated i can make the loan back within 21 days with a minimum of 6 hours a day mining. Also the audit doesn't mention the duration since i started my current tech 2 business. It has had alot of setup costs with PI the POS modules refining the build datacores and so with plex needed to for my accounts this week my wallet is low. I am expecting a 700mil boost to my wallet in the next few days. Therefore not only will i be making the isk via mining i'll have a little extra coming from my tech 2 business.
As to the risk stated of not being able to repay the bond. I have around 1b isk invested in a pos. If worst comes to the worst i can liquidate assets and get half of the invested price back. I highly doubt that this will happen. I have access to kernite which is approx. 23mil per can of ore. At 4000m3 per minute i estimate roughly 133 hours of mining kernite solidly. Allowing for market costs taxes and other variables lets make it 145 hours of mining. If i mine 6 hours a day thats 24 days repayment, 6 days to spare. Ofcourse, I understand there is a level of trust. It is with any investment and with no collateral its even worse but I can promise to be mining like a trooper. I've already started mining more over the last week and will double up if I get the isk for this new pilot.
For the capital construction I want to explain myself better. When i planned it out I could have generated that kind of cash in 6 months to start. I am the kind of person that likes to act fast on plans. Now I knew asking for a loan for the BPO's would not be likely filled due to the figure needed and my little to nothing MD experience. Thats why I decided to ask for a loan for a new hulk character. I was gonna get him anyway and once I pay back the loan it gives me credibility with MD as a reliable investor. So once i've paid this back i plan to either make a bond or request another loan to cover the bpo. I have labs that I can research the ME and PE with no difficulty and I can fly a freighter so it is easy to move to sell.
To answer some of the Auditor questions although not directed to me I have only accidently posted as my alt once and only really post under Halborn. I recently lost a hauler with some stock in through suicide gank and it was a silly mistake and i've learnt from it as I can transport securly with an orca and I also have contacts that can fly freighter to transport and will not be moving stuff unless it is secured.
Hope this answered your questions
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.14 16:44:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 14/11/2010 16:45:45
Yes, thank you. I'd still like to see the audit updated with the information requested.
Also the auditor should confirm stock you have on hand by having you show the contents of your hangar in a trade window (just pointing out a method of confirming that information) then cancelling the trade when they finish confirming the items.
Not saying I don't trust you, just saying how the auditor should be confirming claims of this type (it's their job after all and what they're being paid to do).
As to the mining numbers I somehow goofed up and thought you were only going to have 1 hulk mining. You are correct with 2 hulks and an orca mining 6hrs per day you should easily make up the isk barring unexpected expenses.
Even if all you did was mine and sell minerals you should be able to pay this back. Sorry for my mix-up thinking it was only going to be 1 hulk and 1 orca.
I do have concerns on burnout though if you actually intend to mine 6hrs per day. Been there, done it, it gets old fast. You may want to consider extending this to a 2 month bond just so you reduce how much time you HAVE to mine to pay things back. Also puts a lot more profit in your own pockets in the short term and only slighly less profit in the long term. If you're looking for faster realization of plans this may help your overall plan because you'll have more capital, faster, in the short term.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 16:57:00 -
[41]
I was considering that actually a few minutes ago. I was wondering if it would ease some concerns for you if it was over 2 months. The main issue isn't to do with further interest on the loan because I dont really mind about that its just that the sooner I can start the capital construction the faster I can pay back the loan. I mean my estimation for the profits per month I can make from the Capital construction payment far exceeds the loan i'm requesting here.
Now I don't want to rush investors but there is a possible pilot i've found that would be really good and i'd like to get it before someone else does. Will you be wanting the full audit before investing? I understand if you do
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.14 17:03:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 14/11/2010 17:04:03
@Taram,
Yes I checked the alts and there was nothing out of line and relatively no postings available. Kill mails didn't show anything that would arise suspicion.
@Halborn,
I will double check your assets real quick, but I only calculated at best 1.7b ... I will do a good overview again today but I did go thru everything before using EVE Assets & EVE Meep. That's not to say I didn't overlook something... but as it stands now 1.7b assets at best; I will post tomorrow if I find anything different.
EDIT: Will update with killmail stats and alt posting information tomorrow as well. Have to work today gents :)
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 17:30:00 -
[43]
So i've had an ingame correspondance with someone willing to invest the full investment. I do not wish to appear rude but I would like to get started with this and get the pilot so I will give a deadline of 20:00 GMT. If you want to invest let me know before then. if you are not completly happy without a full audit I completly understand and I will take the ingame offer I have recieved. I appreciate your offers but I am on a timeline.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.14 17:33:00 -
[44]
Confirming my offer of investment for the full amount at 2.6b
Sev
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.11.14 17:43:00 -
[45]
I'll step aside on this, thanks. I was a little concerned about your comment in the Zoidberg thread but thought that this was probably a throw away line. On the other hand, if you have someone else lined up I'll take the opportunity to play ultra-safe. Good luck with everything!
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 18:04:00 -
[46]
Okay Raw np at all. The comment I made on the Zoidberg thread i can see how it was a bit worrying. You are right it was just a throw away comment and probably not the way i'd actually act because i dont believe in taking someone else hard work. Just shocked to see that in 4 couriers tbh :P
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.11.14 19:32:00 -
[47]
If you have an offer for the full amount I'm willing to step back as well.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 19:43:00 -
[48]
Okay Taram. Thanks for both your provisional offers though and also the questions you asked. This is a learning experience for me being my first loan request and i'm sure you're questions have helped for this and future posts. Also thank you to Calypsa for working through the problems you have had with the audit due to API changes and work and still delivering.
I will updated this post for repayments as they happen.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.14 20:02:00 -
[49]
Confirming my investment in this project. Have transfered 2.6b in full to Halborn
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.14 20:03:00 -
[50]
Confirming I have received the 2.6bn and to confirm this will be repaid in a month with 10% interest.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.17 00:04:00 -
[51]
Just tossing in my .02, but as I was re-reading everything I decided to take one more peek at this to make sure I didn't miss anything in my audit; and it doesn't appear to me that there was every any transfer made between Seven Sins and Halborn, nor any other Characters disclosed to me by Halborn.
... Could be I missed something, but I didn't see any and I just rechecked.. slightly suspicious.
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Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.17 08:36:00 -
[52]
Could you re-check, here is proof of the transfer leaving my account :)
Note the time is only a few minutes ago too :)
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
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Posted - 2010.11.17 09:05:00 -
[53]
Interesting read. I'm still curious if this was a scam or not.
So is the auditor saying that the 2.6b transfer wallet image is fake?
And why is the ISK balance blacked out when it's on display in dozens of other places in the same image?
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Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.17 09:10:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Seven Sins on 17/11/2010 09:14:41
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Interesting read. I'm still curious if this was a scam or not.
So is the auditor saying that the 2.6b transfer wallet image is fake?
And why is the ISK balance blacked out when it's on display in dozens of other places in the same image?
What you see in the image is transactions from the journal. I am the investee, my capital is private for now :)
If this image is not enough, then I am happy to prove it some other way without revealing my overal worth. Maybe take a picture later today with people confirming the date in the signatures channel?
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Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:05:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 17/11/2010 14:09:48
As I had stated above, I may have missed it; I will gladly review the transactions one more time. I know Seven Sins has been around the forums so I didn't really think it was a scam, so as I said I'll do a double check this evening after work.
EDIT: The only thing about that image that looks "fishy" so to speak is that you screen-printed it on the 17th, and if you look it says the 17th in your search box, yet it is showing transactions from the 14th, and the scroll bar is all the way up showing those are the most recent transactions; which is quite odd to have 3 day old transactions be your most recent on an active character. :) Either way I'm not going to point the evil scam finger until I get home tonight and double check everything...
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Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:22:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Seven Sins on 17/11/2010 14:24:01
Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus
Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 17/11/2010 14:09:48
As I had stated above, I may have missed it; I will gladly review the transactions one more time. I know Seven Sins has been around the forums so I didn't really think it was a scam, so as I said I'll do a double check this evening after work.
EDIT: The only thing about that image that looks "fishy" so to speak is that you screen-printed it on the 17th, and if you look it says the 17th in your search box, yet it is showing transactions from the 14th, and the scroll bar is all the way up showing those are the most recent transactions; which is quite odd to have 3 day old transactions be your most recent on an active character. :) Either way I'm not going to point the evil scam finger until I get home tonight and double check everything...
Look at the Cheverons... I had to go back approx 5 pages :) Nothing fishy about that at all
EDIT: Chevrons are next to the load button.
I feel quite flattered that I am being considered an alt scammer lol!
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Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:26:00 -
[57]
I don't think your an alt; been around too long for that, and as I said I'm not waving the scam finger around; I just didn't see any change in Halborn's wallet last night (Though there's been several long nights at work heh).. also perhaps I'm a bit daft here, but I don't believe the chevrons show how many pages back you are =p
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Seven Sins
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:34:00 -
[58]
Recent proof.. for your convenience I have narrowed the transactions down for you. I have hidden private investments but let public ones remain if you choose to verify that way.
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:39:00 -
[59]
To put the scam comment to bed I have uploaded player donations. The reason you may not have noticed a change is because I paid for the character pretty much straight after recieving sevens loan. Seven is not an alt of mine as you will probably tell by character age
Here is the wallet transactions:
Proof
Also here is the thread for the character that i purchased with the investment:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1414750
hope this answers all possible worries
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Calypsa Aeurelieus
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Posted - 2010.11.17 14:54:00 -
[60]
Looks to be on the up and up, no harm intended and you are probably right Halborn, I didn't know you shuffled all the funds out that quick :); so I missed it in the skimming. No harm intended :D
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.17 15:12:00 -
[61]
np calypsa.
Just wanted to ensure i didn't have the scam label on me. I think it was because I shifted alot of the investment out almost instantly.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
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Posted - 2010.11.17 23:53:00 -
[62]
This so-called auditor is quite lacking. Either the transfer occurred or it didn't. If it did, your accusation shows enormous ineptitude (and unprofessionalism) on your part. If it didn't, then these photos aren't legitimate. Which is it?
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Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.23 00:44:00 -
[63]
I'd just like to let you know that the loan has been repayed in full.
Due to academic deadlines and that I was home for the holidays I was late in handing the repayment into Seven.
We discussed ingame and we agreed to extend the loan by a month and the loan was repayed once the holidays was over.
Also due to reasons above I completely forgot to post a confirmation of repayment until now.
This Thread can be closed as the loan agreement is Complete.
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CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Seven Sins
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Posted - 2011.02.03 09:00:00 -
[64]
Really sorry for the late reply!
I can confirm Hal was good to his word and paid the loan off in full when we agreed :)
He is a pleasant and honest person, and I would vouch for him in any future MD offerings.
Good luck with your enterprises Hal!
Sev
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