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![Ric Adburr Ric Adburr](https://images.evetech.net/characters/561419163/portrait?size=64)
Ric Adburr
Gallente 0ccam's Razor
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Posted - 2010.11.06 03:49:00 -
[1]
When Tech 3 cruisers were introduced, they were billed as the totally customizable ship. You were supposed to be able to switch from an active shield booster fit to a cloaky bubble immune fit with the same ship, as needed. And while this has proved true to some extent, something has always anchored the T3s down ever since they were released: Rigs.
Think about it. Every other module on the ship can be swapped out at a moment's notice, the entire ship can be disassembled and rebuilt into an entirely new ship. Except for the rigs. When you install a rig you are committing to it. It can only be removed by destroying it. This is especially troublesome with T2 rigs as they are so expensive.
This is entirely counter-intuitive to the purpose of the T3 cruisers.
Current rigs limit the customizability of T3 cruisers, especially when T2 rigs are involved, by forcing you to use a ship with a vast number of possible configurations as though it were just a single ship, with a single loadout.
Say I have a Tengu. It's currently setup with a shield buffer and HAM launchers, making it an impressive straightforward combat ship. Since the ship is inherently expensive I decide to splurge on T2 Core Defense Field Extenders to improve the tank.
Now if I need to, I can't convert my Tengu into a covert ops setup without either leaving the T2 shield rigs on, though they are useless to the covert setup, or destroying them, losing a large amount of ISK in the process.
So here is what I propose: Tech 3 rigs.
T3 rigs would have the same bonuses as T2 rigs, but in the spirit of the modular design of the Tech 3 Cruisers, they would be able to be removed without destroying them, thus allowing you to swap them out with the rest of the ships modules. This would allow the Tech 3 ships to become the fully interchangeable platforms they were intended to be.
In addition, it could be an opportunity to reduce the cost of T2 rigs and make them a little more viable in regular PVP, as the way prices are now, most T2 rigs are effectively off-limits to most PVPers. T1 rigs would be the cheap ones, available to all, T2 would be the mid-range rigs used on ships that aren't as interchangeable as T3 cruisers, and the T3 rigs would be the high-end expensive ones.
What do you think? Thoughts? Comments?
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![MuntadaralZaidi MuntadaralZaidi](https://images.evetech.net/characters/885774064/portrait?size=64)
MuntadaralZaidi
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Posted - 2010.11.06 03:56:00 -
[2]
So t3 rigs would be able to be swapped out and fitted to non-t3 ships? I'm not really sure I like that idea.
I see what you're saying, and if t3 rigs could only be swapped to/from t3 ships, I wouldn't have an issue with it. Possibly make the t3 rigs require mucho calibration, and make sure only t3 ships have the calibration necessary to fit them.
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![Haseo Arashi Haseo Arashi](https://images.evetech.net/characters/195420438/portrait?size=64)
Haseo Arashi
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Posted - 2010.11.06 03:58:00 -
[3]
Tech 2 rigs are already uber expensive. Tech 3 rigs will cost more than most ships Each. besides, removable rigs would just go against the main limitation that rigs were given in the first place.
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![Ric Adburr Ric Adburr](https://images.evetech.net/characters/561419163/portrait?size=64)
Ric Adburr
Gallente 0ccam's Razor
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Posted - 2010.11.06 04:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: MuntadaralZaidi So t3 rigs would be able to be swapped out and fitted to non-t3 ships? I'm not really sure I like that idea.
I see what you're saying, and if t3 rigs could only be swapped to/from t3 ships, I wouldn't have an issue with it. Possibly make the t3 rigs require mucho calibration, and make sure only t3 ships have the calibration necessary to fit them.
That kind of micromanagement is not necessary.
Think of how ludicrously expensive T2 rigs are now. The price effectively prevents anyone (or at least anyone in their right mind) from fitting them to regular PVP ships. T3 rigs would be balanced by the same principle. T2 rigs would come down in price a bit, somewhere between where they are now and T1 rig prices, and T3 rigs would take their place as the crazy-expensive rigs.
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![Headerman Headerman](https://images.evetech.net/characters/2079794360/portrait?size=64)
Headerman
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Posted - 2010.11.06 04:15:00 -
[5]
The requirements for T2 rigs need to be lowered so they are cheaper, before T3 rigs are introduced.
I would love to know how many T2 small shield extenders have been bought/sold in the last month...
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![William Cooly William Cooly](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1215245297/portrait?size=64)
William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.06 04:45:00 -
[6]
Hey. Hey guys. You know what t3 rigs are called? SUBSYSTEMS!
Originally by: Templar Dane Tanking is not a role.
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![Ric Adburr Ric Adburr](https://images.evetech.net/characters/561419163/portrait?size=64)
Ric Adburr
Gallente 0ccam's Razor
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Posted - 2010.11.06 04:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: William Cooly Hey. Hey guys. You know what t3 rigs are called? SUBSYSTEMS!
They're not the same thing. T3 ships subsystems determine what kind of ship the cruiser hull becomes. Rigs just add one specific bonus, improving one attribute of the ship.
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![Michael Sight Michael Sight](https://images.evetech.net/characters/119896909/portrait?size=64)
Michael Sight
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Posted - 2010.11.06 13:07:00 -
[8]
Most people that fly T-3 ships have more than one.
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![Brian Ballsack Brian Ballsack](https://images.evetech.net/characters/961696607/portrait?size=64)
Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.06 13:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ric Adburr
Originally by: William Cooly Hey. Hey guys. You know what t3 rigs are called? SUBSYSTEMS!
They're not the same thing. T3 ships subsystems determine what kind of ship the cruiser hull becomes. Rigs just add one specific bonus, improving one attribute of the ship.
Shhhhh dont tell him i was looking forward to catching him in his tengu with only one subsytem fitted.
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![Istvaan Shogaatsu Istvaan Shogaatsu](https://images.evetech.net/characters/873374907/portrait?size=64)
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2010.11.06 13:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Michael Sight Most people that fly T-3 ships have more than one.
Yeah, I just get around this by having multiple hulls with different sets of rigs. A bare T3 hull doesn't cost that much.
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![Tippia Tippia](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1938874952/portrait?size=64)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.06 13:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ric Adburr This is entirely counter-intuitive to the purpose of the T3 cruisers.
àbut it's entirely intuitive to the purpose of rigs: permanent attachments that specialise your ship and which cannot be treated as modules. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
![Denuo Secus Denuo Secus](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1327153056/portrait?size=64)
Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2010.11.06 14:02:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Denuo Secus on 06/11/2010 14:04:17 I completely agree with the OP. T1 and especially T2 ships are more or less fixed. At least due to its bonuses. T3 ships are meant to be flexible. The only thing which completely negates this are rigs.
But instead of introducing a new (possibly very expensive) type of rigs I'd make T3 ships able to remove rigs without destroying them. So easy.
And to add one more thing: the flexibility of T3 ships matters most at places far away. For instance in WHs. So it should really be possible to reassemble T3 ships not only at stations but also on ship maintenance arrays of POSes and carriers. (DISCLAIMER: I didn't try this a while, but last time I wasn't able to assemble my Tengu at my POS). -
Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S
R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
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![Vorekk Vorekk](https://images.evetech.net/characters/351257472/portrait?size=64)
Vorekk
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Posted - 2010.11.06 14:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: MuntadaralZaidi So t3 rigs would be able to be swapped out and fitted to non-t3 ships?
That could be fixed by drastically increasing the calibration cost on T3 rigs and equally increasing the calibration points on T3 hulls.
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![Bibosikus Bibosikus](https://images.evetech.net/characters/197170897/portrait?size=64)
Bibosikus
Gallente The Wyld Hunt
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Posted - 2010.11.06 14:43:00 -
[14]
A simpler answer would be to allow a Remove feature on T3 ships' rig slots. Assuming CCP's db design can cater for doing it ofc.
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![Thrasymachus TheSophist Thrasymachus TheSophist](https://images.evetech.net/characters/364921007/portrait?size=64)
Thrasymachus TheSophist
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Posted - 2010.11.06 15:52:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Thrasymachus TheSophist on 06/11/2010 15:54:35
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ric Adburr This is entirely counter-intuitive to the purpose of the T3 cruisers.
àbut it's entirely intuitive to the purpose of rigs: permanent attachments that specialise your ship and which cannot be treated as modules.
This.
If you want total flexibility in your T3, which is understandable, then don't rig it.
If you want the bonus of rigs, accept the fact that you've made a permanent choice for that hull.
Having permanent rigs is no more counterintuitive on a T3 cruiser than it is on any hull. Once you fit those missle rigs that effect heavy missles but not HAMs, you wont' ever refit into HAMs on that ship, even though the ship permits HAMs (consider a Cerb or Drake here). |
![Xanaan Zenithdul Xanaan Zenithdul](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1502082250/portrait?size=64)
Xanaan Zenithdul
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Posted - 2010.11.06 16:03:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Xanaan Zenithdul on 06/11/2010 16:05:05 Well. Fifty subsystem isn't coming since CCP did realise that T3 is a dead end. You can't transform it into modules and rigs, only ships. Most likely there will never be T3 level, and current T3 ships will be renamed into something else.
T3 is custom tech with subsystem. Imagine T3 ammo? T3 rigs? T3 modules? All requiring subsystems to work... Bad idea.
My original thoughts were as they are now when CCP did present T3 for all of u - it's a deadend. |
![Buzzmong Buzzmong](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1412907573/portrait?size=64)
Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.11.06 22:04:00 -
[17]
So, essentially, barring combat losses, T3 rigs are undestructable like every other module?
You'll be left with a similar situation like the data interfaces for invention. Buy a set and that's that.
Prices will drop no matter what as demand will be lower than normal rigs. Which in turn will probably also lower prices of rig parts unless they have their own specific construction materials.
Argueably though you could say T1 and T2 rig prices are inflated by added artificial demand due to destruction on removal when compared to normal modules.
So swings and roundabouts really. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go! |
![Gecko O'Bac Gecko O'Bac](https://images.evetech.net/characters/680076676/portrait?size=64)
Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2010.11.06 22:33:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xanaan Zenithdul Edited by: Xanaan Zenithdul on 06/11/2010 16:05:05 Well. Fifty subsystem isn't coming since CCP did realise that T3 is a dead end. You can't transform it into modules and rigs, only ships. Most likely there will never be T3 level, and current T3 ships will be renamed into something else.
T3 is custom tech with subsystem. Imagine T3 ammo? T3 rigs? T3 modules? All requiring subsystems to work... Bad idea.
My original thoughts were as they are now when CCP did present T3 for all of u - it's a deadend.
In truth there is a second set of bonuses for the T3 flavor: T3 modules were supposed to be heavily resistant to overheat. Also there was a talk of being able to accept scripts for modified behavior, kinda like some modules already do and many proposals for T3 modules follow this road. Imho, if the price increase isn't huge, T3 modules as copies of the T2 version but with improved heat resistance (or with improved overheat bonuses, perhaps the ability to change between the two with some kind of script) is a good enough reason to want a T3 module. Of course the price shouldn't be MUCH more than that of a T2 module, otherwise they'll only even be used on heavily pimped ratting ships or a by a few crazy solo pvpers.
T3 ammo doesn't really need to follow the same logic... Perhaps they can be a very specialized version of T2 ammo (though I doubt this would work) or a different thing altogether, perhaps ammo with side effects (like, uh... a small amount of cap neuting or a light webbing effect or whatever)
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![Duke o'DeliMeats Duke o'DeliMeats](https://images.evetech.net/characters/530168922/portrait?size=64)
Duke o'DeliMeats
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Posted - 2010.11.06 23:51:00 -
[19]
Just buy a second tengu, problem solved.
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![Joss56 Joss56](https://images.evetech.net/characters/116236186/portrait?size=64)
Joss56
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Posted - 2010.11.07 11:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Duke o'DeliMeats Just buy a second tengu, problem solved.
When you see T2 riggs price, i fully agree with you, a new ship is just cheaper ![Laughing](/images/icon_lol.gif)
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![Aerilis Aerilis](https://images.evetech.net/characters/254367384/portrait?size=64)
Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.11.07 14:45:00 -
[21]
Just make it so you can rip rigs off T3 ships without destroying them. Because of their modular design or some backstory explanation like that.
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![Willmahh Willmahh](https://images.evetech.net/characters/550804691/portrait?size=64)
Willmahh
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Posted - 2010.11.07 16:23:00 -
[22]
How about moving the rig slots off the hull and putting them on the subsystems?
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