There are miners in null as well.

Who will always run like cockroaches when the lights get turned on if someone comes in local.

See here.

Well, to be honest I always thought jump freighters was a hokey idea to add.

But on the other hand, they are in already and removing them where many alliances have built an infrastructure around Jump Freighters could cause a sticky situation.

Nobody enjoys Freighter Convoys. And the big alliance will just have POSes with bridge Titans. No real change in safety, just an increase in capital investment.

Who will always run like cockroaches when the lights get turned on if someone comes in local.

See here.

Nobody enjoys Freighter Convoys. And the big alliance will just have POSes with bridge Titans. No real change in safety, just an increase in capital investment.

Sorry to chime in here, but I'm curious: Why would nobody enjoy this?
I find the scenario so interesting. Important cargo to transport, a few, or even dozens, of freighters, escorted by combat ships, scout sent out to adjacent systems. Isn't that a great example of how a group of people with various skillsets can work together?

This is a serious question, since I probably overlook something.

Sorry to chime in here, but I'm curious: Why would nobody enjoy this?
I find the scenario so interesting. Important cargo to transport, a few, or even dozens, of freighters, escorted by combat ships, scout sent out to adjacent systems. Isn't that a great example of how a group of people with various skillsets can work together?

This is a serious question, since I probably overlook something.

And now you know what will happen if high sec becomes like null like so many people want to happen.
As soon as somebody shows up everybody runs and camps. EVE will become a game of campers.

Sorry to chime in here, but I'm curious: Why would nobody enjoy this?
I find the scenario so interesting. Important cargo to transport, a few, or even dozens, of freighters, escorted by combat ships, scout sent out to adjacent systems. Isn't that a great example of how a group of people with various skillsets can work together?

This is a serious question, since I probably overlook something.

Because we like shooting things. A Successful freighter OP is a few hours hoping that we don't have to shoot anything (if we do, someone's gonna drop Caps/Supers to ensure the Freighters die). An Unsuccessful freighter OP will either end in the Freighters getting logged before they're agressed (meaning we have to continue it later despite the enemies certainly having the freighter toons watchlisted), or dying in a fire.

In other words, there is no way to have a successful freighter Op that includes shooting things (which, as mentioned, we enjoy).

Because we like shooting things. A Successful freighter OP is a few hours hoping that we don't have to shoot anything (if we do, someone's gonna drop Caps/Supers to ensure the Freighters die). An Unsuccessful freighter OP will either end in the Freighters getting logged before they're agressed (meaning we have to continue it later despite the enemies certainly having the freighter toons watchlisted), or dying in a fire.

In other words, there is no way to have a successful freighter Op that includes shooting things (which, as mentioned, we enjoy).

Makes sense, but why do people ferry stuff between hi and low/nullsec, or even different areas of nullsec?

Is it because most things are produced in hisec?

I've never been involved in a nullsec alliance that really has any major industry going on, so I really don't know.

Industry in HS has effectively unlimited free manufacturing slots, easy logistics, one stop shopping centers, and safe POSes.

So for everything other than T1 ship Hulls, it's better to import it via JF. T1 Ship Hulls (esp big ones), you import BPCs and 425s/800s.

You can fit an effectively unlimited amount of T2/Meta Modules into a JF. Much more than you ever could with the number of build slots available in Null.

Capitals are easier to build in LS and jump down, and Supers are really the only thing that Null builds better than anywhere else (cause you can't build them anywhere else).

Ok.. that makes sense.
So it isn't possible for the attacking party to manage to destroy the freighters, but lose even more in return? Of course you'd hope the freighters would arrive at their destination unharmed, but when they are destroyed in exchange for even greater damage to the attackers, wouldn't that still be a win, too?
What about "bait freighter"-OPs?

I still imagine it being a nice thing, but if nothing of what I asked just above is possible/feasible, I understand why most wouldn't enjoy it. Even though it certainly would add a nice strategic element to the game, I imagine.

So if there was a way for an alliance to set up an industry network without it being a major pain to maintain in nullsec, JFs wouldn't be as needed?

It would be better if CCP came out and said "This is what we want our game to be, here is the patch that makes it so, if you don't like it, **** off".

Why do you care if other people are playing differently than you?

Whoa whoa whoa.

We woudn't want to make life too easy for nullsec. Though we dream of them being more "self sufficient", it just isn't right to help power projection supercap proliferation blah blah blah.

So if there was a way for an alliance to set up an industry network without it being a major pain to maintain in nullsec, JFs wouldn't be as needed?

Hence the only real reason freighters even exist: POS refuling...

Hence the only real reason freighters even exist: POS refuling... a fact that always kind of bothered me... such a waste.

And moving bulk material efficiently. And Outposts, iHubs, IHub upgrades...

And that... but for trading?

As for me, I don't mind that much. INcreases my income aswell as makes my expenses cheaper. <- Which some pvpers should think about, though they're not the smartest bunch in the game.