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Eclampsia
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Posted - 2010.11.15 18:32:00 -
[1]
It is obvious that dramiel is overpowered frigate, which has an unique position in frigsize rating.
Dramiel has a very wide range of targets and has good ability to escape from a battle. This ship has a good damage and also has a chance in many cases to leave the clausefight and escape.
It would be logical to cut the dramiel speed in 10-15%
Dramiel faster than the fastest interceptors, while still having good fitting solutions, has good DPS like assauls ships.
IMHO it is to much for one ship.
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matthiastee
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Posted - 2010.11.15 18:44:00 -
[2]
Edited by: matthiastee on 15/11/2010 18:46:48
oh **** someone has some balls you are going to get flamed.
EDIT: but you are right look at the cynabal/vagabond almost the same speed so therefore shouldnt the jag/daredevil be close to the same speed?
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.15 18:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 15/11/2010 18:52:26
The dramiel is hilariously overpowered
Edit: fix some of the currently underpowered faction ship while we're there.
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Suitonia
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.11.15 19:06:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Suitonia on 15/11/2010 19:05:45
Yeah, I agree the Dramiel is overpowered, and it has really hurt Frigate PvP in a lot of areas. The main reasons for this I think is it has the best slot layout, it can easily fit a dual prop setup with a medium shield extender, giving it almost twice the EHP of a standard DCII Taranis, while also going twice as fast, similar dps with much better ranges, kiting ability and ability to leave, twice as agile, and capless weapons, as well as a healthy portion of its DPS in drones which work at <60km and don't rely on the Dramiel's tracking. It is very similar to a Taranis, while having none of the 'Ranis weaknesses. And it is very difficult to kill a dramiel (bearing in mind you need to be able to stop it from leaving, while at the same time being able to actually kill it, which is something which seems limited to bait fit ab/scram/web AFs like the Ishkur or Jaguar, and such ships die to a counterfit Dramiel with lr disruptor anyway.
In my opinion, it needs to have the drone bay nerfed or needs to have the slot layout changed so it cannot easily fit dual prop and MSE.
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.11.15 19:08:00 -
[5]
not supported. dont nerf the dramiel, buff the frigates that need buffing. if you nerf the dramiel, you nerf the jaguar because my jag will kill a dram any day. buff the hawk and the rest of the garbage.
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matthiastee
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Posted - 2010.11.15 19:47:00 -
[6]
if you nerf the dramiel, you nerf the jaguar because my jag will kill a dram any day.
you are a ****** a dramiel would own any jag anyday and if it couldnt it would just fly away.
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matthiastee
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Posted - 2010.11.15 19:51:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 15/11/2010 18:52:26
The dramiel is hilariously overpowered
Edit: fix some of the currently underpowered faction ship while we're there.
worm,cruor and the subbucus all have lol dps and speed when compared to a dramiel.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.11.15 20:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
The dramiel is hilariously overpowered
Signature removed. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.15 21:24:00 -
[9]
Funny, my corp mate took out a dramiel with an ishkur. Funnier is i used my curse in a mock battle with my corp and made a dramiel no better than a bantam.
PS Curse is win.
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Laty
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Posted - 2010.11.15 21:54:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Laty on 15/11/2010 22:00:14
Originally by: Eclampsia
It would be logical to cut the dramiel speed in 10-15%
Dramiel faster than the fastest interceptors, while still having good fitting solutions, has good DPS like assauls ships.
IMHO it is to much for one ship.
think it must be 20%
strip claw with mwd 4000m/s
strip dramiel with mwd 5000m/s
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Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.11.15 22:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Funny, my corp mate took out a dramiel with an ishkur. Funnier is i used my curse in a mock battle with my corp and made a dramiel no better than a bantam.
PS Curse is win.
An Ishkur or a Jaguar can kill a Dramiel with an AB/Scram/Web fit, as I mentioned above (Assuming the Dramiel is in the Bread&Butter Dual prop fit, if the Dramiel has ab/scram/web/mse he is able to run, although has to do it a bit earlier than he otherwise would) However, it doesn't mean the Dramiel is not overpowered, the fact that it can go toe to toe with assault ships, while also being faster and more agile than Interceptors, with more escape options is what makes it overpowered.
Also claiming that your Curse shuts one down is irrelevent as a Curse equally shuts down every other frigate in the game and additionally is not related to the Dramiel, since it is not a frigate, and therefore not really an argument to this proposal.
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Daymio
TYTANIA Inc
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Posted - 2010.11.16 06:45:00 -
[12]
Nerf Dramiel!
Cut off dronebay, medslot, decrease speed, CPU, PG.
It will be more honest by aligning with other faction frigates.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.16 06:54:00 -
[13]
Here you go, balance fractions until the cows come home
http://www.mathplayground.com/Scale_Fractions.html
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2010.11.16 06:55:00 -
[14]
It is a mark of imbalance that all the faction ships with serious usage in PvP (as judged by the QEN3) are Angel Cartel ships. Drams have every single good thing that a frigate can have (besides a bomb launcher). No other ship of its class even comes close to competing with it, except the Daredevil, which is essentially a Dramiel killer that can't catch a Dramiel in the first place.
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Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.16 07:24:00 -
[15]
+1
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.11.16 07:59:00 -
[16]
Supported.
All the Angel ships really needed to be looked at twice before release. Amazing that CCP can have the forethought to release some ships as pre-nerfed to hell and back, and yet somehow completely overlook these.
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.11.16 08:38:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Korg Leaf on 16/11/2010 08:39:04
Supported, I would say either slow it down or take its ability to fit dual prop/mse with an mapc fitted.
Either that or bring the others to its level.
The dramiel although very overpowered at the moment doesnt need to have alot done to bring it back in line, certainly doesnt need to be sledge hammered by ccp which is what will happen inevitably
Edit. cheers for suggesting a fix that wouldnt kill the ship off as something different to fly, dont want it going back to the days of having a turret bonus and more missile slots than turrets
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2010.11.16 09:48:00 -
[18]
Remove the drone bay and increase mass by 10%.
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Syreon 5I4
Ytko Blueprint
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Posted - 2010.11.16 10:50:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Syreon 5I4 on 16/11/2010 10:52:22
Pick up one med slot and reduce the speed. It'll be ok
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Fail Fit
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Posted - 2010.11.16 15:35:00 -
[20]
Since CCP messed up and kept billing me keeping this account active, I shall bless the forums with my opinions on such things in the assembly hall starting with this thread.
/not supported
Why? Because if a hauler can kill a Dramiel, then it is not OP. I do not have hard stats and numbers to throw at you to support that. Just simply, lol at haulers killing FOTM faction frigates.
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matthiastee
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Posted - 2010.11.16 16:37:00 -
[21]
so you think that just because some noob was in a dramiel and got killed by a badger its not overpowered? ive seen an omen take down a harbinger doesnt mean the harbinger sucks just means he was ****ing noob you ****** or that the omen pilot was like 100m sp.
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hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.11.16 18:46:00 -
[22]
Fail Fit is dumb. The dramiel is overpowered, COMPARED TO OTHER FRIGATES (besides the jaguar/ishkur/vengeance) meaning that, truly, the other frigates are the ones that are UNDERPOWERED. Cruor? Sucubus? Worm? Pfft **** ships compared. You need to buff them. Don't make the dramiel a piece of crap like the rest of them it is perfect as it is. You need to bring the others up to par.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.11.16 18:56:00 -
[23]
At issue is the weakness of the other faction ships. I assume (hope) that Sansha ships are going to be fixed in this upcoming release, as they are often sub-T2 in function. Blood raiders ships are also lacking compared to T2 (Ashimmu v Curse for instance). Gurista ships are fairly good, but could still use a small boost. Angels are the only ones that really scale up from their comparable T2 ship (Cynabal v Vagabond for instance).
Don't nerf the Dram, just fix the other pirate faction ships.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Miss President
Caldari
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
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Posted - 2010.11.17 03:17:00 -
[24]
not supported
got owned by one no need to nerf.
there are plenty of counters for dramiels
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Fai Ni
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Posted - 2010.11.17 22:10:00 -
[25]
"there are plenty of counters for dramiels"
What kind of frigsize counters for dramiels do you know?
In lowsec and in 00 space plz/
Because some usable in low not usable in 00 |
Techis Trade
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Posted - 2010.11.17 22:16:00 -
[26]
Or will change Dramiel dronbay from 15 to 0. |
King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.11.17 22:44:00 -
[27]
Edited by: King Rothgar on 17/11/2010 22:44:24
The Dramiel needs a small nerf but only a small one. It needs it's drone bay removed, falloff bonus removed or speed cut by 10-15%. Pick one and only one. Some of the other faction ships are fine, some are not. The ashimmu, bhaalgorn, and entire serpentis/angel lines are wonderful ships. I wouldn't touch either as they represent exactly what the pirate faction ships should be. However the cruor and pretty much the entire sansha line need some love.
The phantasm, for example, is a pure dps ship and yet it does less dps than the HAC's it's supposed to be superior to. It needs a nice 50-75% damage boost over what it currently has. If it gets that, then suddenly it's a very appealing faction cruiser. As such, I would remove it's tracking bonus in favor of a double damage bonus. I would also add an additional turret to it (+2 effective turrets due to role bonus).
The cruor suffers from silly bonuses. Neuting bonuses are of no use on a frigate hull but the web bonus is great for a frigate. As such I suggest dropping the neut bonus in favor of a web range bonus. This would give it both a strength and range bonus to webs, a very powerful combo.
I can't comment on guristas ships much but they seem to be very popular, so my guess is they are fine. As for those who think the ashimmu is crap, it's not crap, just different. It is not in direct competition with the pilgrim or the curse. It's a totally different beast and one that I like a lot. You could boost it's base speed/agility/HP and I wouldn't complain but it's bonuses are exceptionally powerful in the right hands. I wouldn't dare trade the web/neut amount bonus for a neut range bonus. Nor would I trade one of them for a web range bonus. I have a cynabal, dramiel, bhaalgorn and tons of other shiny ships and yet I've run around in an ashimmu almost exclusively for the past month. That says something.
Edit: Forgot to support.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Fai Ni
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Posted - 2010.11.18 17:25:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Fai Ni on 18/11/2010 17:26:12
I think that cut the speed by 10% and reduce drons from 3 to 2 will be enough
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.18 21:07:00 -
[29]
it bascially rules in FW. . . and many people don't bother trying to fight one.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.11.18 21:44:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 18/11/2010 21:45:41
Originally by: Fai Ni
What kind of frigsize counters for dramiels do you know?
Daredevil? You know, the frigate that trumps every single frigate out there (as in, blasting them to smitherines instead of running away from them)?
/not supported
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