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Fraction ships rebalans (dramiel nerf)

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Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.04.23 08:47:00 - [121] Originally by: LordElfa Well, the fact is... Price as an argument at this stage? Were it to be accepted as valid, then it would only apply if the death rate of the things was equal to the T2 hulls/T1 BS you compare it with .. which is most definitely is not. Take the other pirate hulls and run them through the same logic, they too are very expensive and very powerful but they die to the slightest slip-up and have numerous counters even in their own class. Originally by: LordElfa ...It's not a God ship, it's just the game's fastest frigate, big woop, some frig had to be. But 25%+ faster than interceptors (which are meant to be fast, it is in the name) while still having tank/spank?
Joss56 Gallente Unleashed' Fury	Posted - 2011.04.23 12:16:00 - [122] Nerfing something is never good for the game and surely will not make other ships issues become more easy to accept. The Dramiel has 2 points that need a close look but not a nerf, such has it's speed and drone bay. Instead of nerf the Dramiel wy not just give T1 hulls good speed improvements and some drone bay, T2 hulls the so demanded racial bonus and some drone bay+speed. Would not make T2's overpowered, would not nerf pirate frigs (some need real love) and T1's little more useful, but if you ever think the good game is that a 10cts frigg can take down a 100M frigg fingers in the nose you just play the wrong game, better play PS3 with downloaded cheats on internet. ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.04.23 13:15:00 - [123] Originally by: Joss56 .... We already tried the nano-age, making it T1/T2 frigs only and reinstating it will not make it better as the exact same issues will arise. Besides, makes no sense to rework 20-30 ships just to make one broken hull seem less so. Frigate balance (T2, Navy, Pirate and higher tiers) is actually pretty damn good, apart from that one ship with no discernible downsides .. It needs vulnerabilities or be forced to make sacrifices (ie. pick one or two from speed/tank/spank but never all at once) just like practically all other hulls do. PS: Dramiel can be killed by T1 frigates already, just requires a custom fit that is generally useless against all other things
Sephiroth CloneVII	Posted - 2011.04.23 21:17:00 - [124] guristas are junk compared to angel in general. Others have half the slots and double the damage, guitarists have half the slots and more range for missiles, ie quite useless.
LordElfa Tri Corp	Posted - 2011.04.24 02:11:00 - [125] Edited by: LordElfa on 24/04/2011 02:14:42 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida paraphrased stuff done to make people I quote look feeble by comparison It's also far more costly than the Interceptors and doesn't have the warp speed of some of them or the resists. You're argument is subjective, comparative and other big words I don't know the meaning of. What I do know is that this whole nerf is being caused by nothing more than butthurt, plain and simple. Butt hurt. Hurt butt. People who's butts have been injured. As in "OMGZORZ!!!111 teh Dramiel is 2 fast for my cheap ship, my bad skillz and my $hit fit, not fair, nerf it wid fyre!!!" As revealed in my book, "10000 Statistics I Pulled Out of My Ass", 98% of all nerf requests come from some "Crapsuleer" who got pwnt and couldn't figure out how to get even so they ask the devs to cheat for them by making the offending vessel easier for them to counter with whatever garbage ship/skills/fit they use. òòòòòòò CSM6-Hated by fools for who they are; Loved by the knowledgeable for what they will do.
Marconus Orion S.E.G.W.A.Y.	Posted - 2011.04.24 04:46:00 - [126] Because warp speed is always a major factor in PvP... Also you will lose ten times more of any other faction/T2 frigate out there compared to the Dramiel. So in the long run, the Dramiel is in fact a cheaper investment.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.04.24 05:16:00 - [127] Originally by: LordElfa It's also far more costly than the Interceptors and doesn't have the warp speed of some of them or the resists... Warp-speed? Really? How many cases off the top of your head can you mention where that has been a deciding factor .. in most cases it actually gets you killed as you come out ahead of 'da blob' on long warps. Resists? Really? Have you even flown an interceptor, last I checked they do not have T2 resists at all but only the racial resist bonus (not even sure about racial) .. Not that is matters much as they don't exactly have stellar base tank values to begin with.
Tar Omrir	Posted - 2011.05.08 23:31:00 - [128] I HATE THIS SHIP...unless im flying one. it is what destroyers should be (without the speed)
Maksim Cammeren	Posted - 2011.05.14 20:55:00 - [129] Read the whole thread, but all that has to be said was already said on page 1: Originally by: Suitonia Edited by: Suitonia on 15/11/2010 19:05:45 Yeah, I agree the Dramiel is overpowered, and it has really hurt Frigate PvP in a lot of areas. The main reasons for this I think is it has the best slot layout, it can easily fit a dual prop setup with a medium shield extender, giving it almost twice the EHP of a standard DCII Taranis, while also going twice as fast, similar dps with much better ranges, kiting ability and ability to leave, twice as agile, and capless weapons, as well as a healthy portion of its DPS in drones which work at <60km and don't rely on the Dramiel's tracking. It is very similar to a Taranis, while having none of the 'Ranis weaknesses. And it is very difficult to kill a dramiel (bearing in mind you need to be able to stop it from leaving, while at the same time being able to actually kill it, which is something which seems limited to bait fit ab/scram/web AFs like the Ishkur or Jaguar, and such ships die to a counterfit Dramiel with lr disruptor anyway. As for the topics that keep coming up, it seems that everyone agrees that the Dramiel is OP and then tries to come up with reasons why it shouldn't be brought in line with everything else: -Balancing by cost: would be ok with me, if the price goes up significantly -You can kill poorly fitted/piloted Dramiels: I find it silly to balance ships based on the lowest common denominator. The problem is that you can't kill the good pilots with other frigates, which would simply avoid your scram/web/AB AF's if they want to and murder everything else. A single ship shouldn't be the best AF and the best Inty in the game. -Don't nerf it, boost other frigates: nerfs are not a bad thing. They are a good thing. Things will never be perfectly balanced and when something gets too strong or too weak it needs to be adjusted. Ideally, one would have an equal amount of boosts and nerfs. Trying to boost every other ship in the game to compensate for one of them being OP'ed is, in my opinion, very silly. You then end up with power creep and creating more imbalances in the process, since you can't do it perfectly. Do the other faction need a boost? Maybe. But first it is important to bring the Dramiel and line and see if the other frigates become more viable.
Marlona Sky D00M. Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.05.15 06:15:00 - [130] Currently when it comes to frigates, it is: Dramiel or GTFO! It should not be this way. Nerf it already.
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2011.05.15 18:27:00 - [131] Originally by: LordElfa Edited by: LordElfa on 24/04/2011 02:14:42 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida paraphrased stuff done to make people I quote look feeble by comparison It's also far more costly than the Interceptors and doesn't have the warp speed of some of them or the resists. You're argument is subjective, comparative and other big words I don't know the meaning of. What I do know is that this whole nerf is being caused by nothing more than butthurt, plain and simple. Butt hurt. Hurt butt. People who's butts have been injured. As in "OMGZORZ!!!111 teh Dramiel is 2 fast for my cheap ship, my bad skillz and my $hit fit, not fair, nerf it wid fyre!!!" As revealed in my book, "10000 Statistics I Pulled Out of My Ass", 98% of all nerf requests come from some "Crapsuleer" who got pwnt and couldn't figure out how to get even so they ask the devs to cheat for them by making the offending vessel easier for them to counter with whatever garbage ship/skills/fit they use. LordElfa is 100% correct. I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS "NERF DRAMIEL" PROPOSAL. P.S. Where's the 'Thumbs Down' option?
Dread F1ash	Posted - 2011.06.08 07:50:00 - [132] /support this topic
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.08 08:05:00 - [133] Originally by: Sephiroth CloneVII guristas are junk compared to angel in general. Others have half the slots and double the damage, guitarists have half the slots and more range for missiles, ie quite useless. yep at least buff guristas to angel lvl
Kaelie Onren	Posted - 2011.06.08 10:04:00 - [134] I thought that angel ships are based on jovian designs. Makes sense that they should be superior to all other ships of the same class. Why do they need a nerf? (any reason besides 'I think they are way too strong') If you don't like how you keep losing frigate pvp to one, why don't you get one yourself? I heard that the Drake is the hands down the best battlecrusier you can get. Would anyone think think it fair game to give other races BCs a buff so that they can fight on equal ground?
LordElfa Gallente Golden Lyon Warriors	Posted - 2011.06.08 11:09:00 - [135] The most I would support is a removal of Drones. òòòòòòò CSM6-Hated by fools for who they are; Loved by the knowledgeable for what they will do.
Sarina Rhoda	Posted - 2011.06.08 11:58:00 - [136] To balance the dram you just need to axe the drone bay OR reduce the speed down to around 3.6kms (mwd without any other speed mods) It would still be an amazing ship just not so much of the Iwin button that it is atm. ps. fix the phantasm it is just junk atm. (I also think the ashimu is junk but corpies of mine donÆt agree)

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