EVE Search - Idea to stop griefer wardecs

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Idea to stop griefer wardecs

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:05:00 - [31] Originally by: Senghir Don't talk such rubbish. What's rubbish about it? Quote: If I walk across a road, I stand a chance of being hit by a car. That doesnt mean that by choosing to cross a road that I choose to be run over. In a strictly legal sense, you kind of do. Not that it's relevant to the topic at hand. Quote: From wiki: Doesn't apply to EVE. There are plenty of perfectly legal behaviours here that would classifiy as griefing in other games. Here, they don't ù they're indended parts of the game. Quote: I don't even need to elaborate. Yes you do. Go look up what the EVE wiki says about griefing and explain how your wardecs fit into that, because that's the only definition that matters. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:06:00 - [32] Originally by: mergblue It would be completely nonsensical for an aggressor to have to pay its victim for the pleasure of destroying it. Heh, whilst we disagree, at least your post isn't like the other completely irrelevant responses. Jesus, how depressing it is that I actually look forward to a post that disagrees with my views, if only for the fact that it makes sense. These forums are just awful
Joe SMASH You Got A Purty Mouth	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:07:00 - [33] Originally by: Senghir These forums are just awful Then leave. We will not miss you. ----------------------------------- Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:08:00 - [34] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Senghir Don't talk such rubbish. What's rubbish about it? Quote: If I walk across a road, I stand a chance of being hit by a car. That doesnt mean that by choosing to cross a road that I choose to be run over. In a strictly legal sense, you kind of do. Not that it's relevant to the topic at hand. Quote: From wiki: Doesn't apply to EVE. There are plenty of perfectly legal behaviours here that would classifiy as griefing in other games. Here, they don't ù they're indended parts of the game. Quote: I don't even need to elaborate. Yes you do. Go look up what the EVE wiki says about griefing and explain how your wardecs fit into that, because that's the only definition that matters. I've already responded to your post. I dont think your further quotes add anything except "no it isn't". It dont need to get into that game. I can add nothing more than my direct response to you, or the other responses I have already placed in this thread.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:14:00 - [35] Originally by: Senghir I've already responded to your post. No. You just dismissed it. Nothing was actually answered. Quote: I dont think your further quotes add anything except "no it isn't". àand here you're doing it again. What's rubbish about it? How does the wardecs you talk about fit into the definition of griefing as it is used in EVE? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
mergblue Dreddit	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: mergblue It would be completely nonsensical for an aggressor to have to pay its victim for the pleasure of destroying it. Heh, whilst we disagree, at least your post isn't like the other completely irrelevant responses. Jesus, how depressing it is that I actually look forward to a post that disagrees with my views, if only for the fact that it makes sense. These forums are just awful War decs are meant to hurt, and more often than not the desired goal is to remove or destroy the offending corp. Donating ISK to that corp by way of a game mechanic would go against the very philosophy of a game centred on non-consensual pvp where wars have real consequenses.
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Grimpak see the undocking button? by pressing it, you consent to PvP. Fine with me. Originally by: Grimpak see the "create corp" button? by pressing it, you consent to receive a wardec from anyone at any given time by any given reason. Also fine with me. Originally by: Grimpak extortion is as a valid reason as any other, as is making your life miserable, and in EVE, is as legal as scamming as long as you are doing it within game mechanics. so, in sum, if you can't take the heat, don't come into the kitchen. And one more time, also fine me with me. What's your point? See, if you read all my posts you should be able to notice that none of the above gives me cause for concern. What you and several others here have done is fallen into a very common cognitive bias. "Confirmation bias" to be specific. This link fills me with joy as it really helps highlight most of the hostile responses I've received here. Wiki link: Confirmation bias then why are you posting?? do you want to make me troll you?? give back my bandwith you bait troll... troll(??!). ok, now seriously, the wardec system has been around for some time and it has recieved numerous changes and nerfs, some of them quite harsh (privateers nerf yo-hoo). it's not perfect, but it's the best one can get and it's totally fair. so why change it? wars are supposed to make you bleed, not slapping your hand. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:18:00 - [38] Originally by: Senghir I've already responded to your post. I dont think your further quotes add anything except "no it isn't". It dont need to get into that game. I can add nothing more than my direct response to you, or the other responses I have already placed in this thread. Yeah, Tippia is good at missing responses and the general point of posts.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:18:00 - [39] You can choose whether or not to be in a wardeccable corp, you chose to be in one. You did not have to take this option, handle it or gtfbtw
northwesten Amarr Sigillum Militum Xpisti R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:20:00 - [40] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Joe SMASH No such thing as 'griefing wardec'. You choose to be in a non-NPC corp, therefore you choose to be decced. End of story. Please refrain from trolling. he not trolling he is right!! the wardec system is fine and if you really don;t like it leave. Or learn to Fight head on
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Tippia How does the wardecs you talk about fit into the definition of griefing as it is used in EVE? Okay, in this specific example (as it's most relevant): The 1 man corp has no chance of winning. That in itself doesnt make a war griefing. However, he doesnt even fight in the war, or even log on much. Again, before you pre-judge, I dont object to this either if there's a point to it. So if he's going to fight, or if he's going to try a surprise attack by enlisting 50 people all of a sudden, great. There is however the possibility that he's just a ** and is doing it to be desruptive as per the griefer definition. Griefers exist in all MMOs. It's possible that he is just doing this to grief. So, back to my solution. If he is a griefer, then him knowing that some of his war fee was going to us, that would probably stop him simply griefing. If however, he has a purpose to it and it's either to mess with us psychologically, or surprise attack etc, then he really needs that war to be there and will continue to dec. After all, it's no skin off his nose if we make an extra 10 mil a week. With over 100 members, it's a drop in the ocean. My solution simply makes it less desirable for people to be a **. That is all. It doesnt affect any other form of warfare.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Selinate Yeah, Tippia is good at missing responses and the general point of posts. Like you, the OP is good at not actually answering questions because you know that you don't have any answer, and at referring to things that have never been said except maybe in your minds in your own minds (and most likely not even there) ù a fact you hope (in vain) that no-one will ever notice Now shush. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:25:00 - [43] Originally by: Grimpak so why change it? wars are supposed to make you bleed, not slapping your hand. I think my most recent response to Tippia probably also answers your questions. Thanks for taking the time to respond constructively though. I honestly appreciate actual debate that has a point to it.
Alyth Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Alyth 1. 'Griefing' wardecs do not exist, and to a greater extent griefing in EVE does not exist. Just because you don't like having something done to you, it does not constitute being griefed. 2. You chose to be in a player corp so sadly you gotta roll with the punches involved with that choice. 3. There are already countermeasures to being wardecced such as a: fighting back b: getting some friends to counterdec them c: joining an npc corp for the duration. Seriously, I don't know why people who are so PvP adverse continue to play a game that is quite obviously not for them and then complain about there being non-consentual PvP in a PvP orientated game. If you don't like it either adapt or realise that EVE may not be quite the game you are looking for. Just what is the point of your post? Are you deliberately just assuming the opposite to everything I've written? Read my posts. I say a lot more than once that I: 1. Like PVP 2. Do not object to wars How can you be so short sighted? I dont understand how your post is even possible. For the last time, my post is about simply making it inconventient for griefers to actually grief. It does nothing what so ever to wars being possible, and it doesnt cost the aggressor anything extra than it does now (under my preferred solution). How can you possibly read this and then arrive at the conclusions you have? Point 1. Just read it. Also your posting is contradictory, how can you like wars but then say that griefing decs exist? If you truly liked wars and pvp you would welcome them instead of coming up with unnecessary solutions to problems that don't exist. I'll say it again. Griefing decs, and to a greater extent griefing in general, do not exist in EVE. Please take your defintions and use them on games where they actually apply. Just to make it a bit clearer: Quote: For the last time, my post is about simply making it inconventient for griefers to actually grief. Griefing in your definition do not apply to EVE, it is a sanctioned game mechanic and has been for several years. Take these examples: Can flipping: legal. Taking ore carelessly dumped into jetcans instead of secure containers: legal Repeat wardecs: legal 'Ninja' salvaging: legal In any other game that would be considered griefing, yes. Here however it is expected player behaviour. The only thing that I would call griefing in EVE, which is harrasment of new players who don't know their left from right, is already bannable. Please show me where anything you have talked about constitutes griefing in any way shape or form.
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:26:00 - [45] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Selinate Yeah, Tippia is good at missing responses and the general point of posts. Like you, the OP is good at not actually answering questions because you know that you don't have any answer, and at referring to things that have never been said except maybe in your minds in your own minds (and most likely not even there) ù a fact you hope (in vain) that no-one will ever notice Now shush. yeah... ok... that's it. You just lack the intelligence to keep up with a conversation. The sooner you admit this, the better it is for everyone.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Senghir Okay, in this specific example (as it's most relevant): The 1 man corp has no chance of winning. That in itself doesnt make a war griefing. However, he doesnt even fight in the war, or even log on much. Again, before you pre-judge, I dont object to this either if there's a point to it. So if he's going to fight, or if he's going to try a surprise attack by enlisting 50 people all of a sudden, great. There is however the possibility that he's just a ** and is doing it to be desruptive as per the griefer definition. Do you have a link to said definition? Just being disruptive isn't enough here ù it is, in fact, a quite legitimate tactic. Attacking is not a requirement. I suggest you start here. Note in particular the last lines: Originally by:** Wiki While they are sometimes used for actual griefing (ie, declared only for the malicious enjoyment of seeing the victim suffer), they can also be seen as a valid playstyle, and are used by many for simple isk-making and/or combat training. War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:30:00 - [47] Originally by: Senghir Originally by: Tippia How does the wardecs you talk about fit into the definition of griefing as it is used in EVE? Okay, in this specific example (as it's most relevant): The 1 man corp has no chance of winning. That in itself doesnt make a war griefing. However, he doesnt even fight in the war, or even log on much. Again, before you pre-judge, I dont object to this either if there's a point to it. So if he's going to fight, or if he's going to try a surprise attack by enlisting 50 people all of a sudden, great. There is however the possibility that he's just a ** and is doing it to be desruptive as per the griefer definition. Griefers exist in all MMOs. It's possible that he is just doing this to grief. So, back to my solution. If he is a griefer, then him knowing that some of his war fee was going to us, that would probably stop him simply griefing. If however, he has a purpose to it and it's either to mess with us psychologically, or surprise attack etc, then he really needs that war to be there and will continue to dec. After all, it's no skin off his nose if we make an extra 10 mil a week. With over 100 members, it's a drop in the ocean. My solution simply makes it less desirable for people to be a . That is all. It doesnt affect any other form of warfare. there is a better, altho expensive option, which is called "mercenaries". why making the griefer pay a piffle ammount of isk to you when you can make him pay in exploded ships that would probably cost more than the wardec fee? --- Quote:** The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:42:00 - [48] Dear OP: The war declaration system in Eve Online is reasonably well balanced. To be able to declare war on any one who chooses to be in a player run corporation is an intended part of game design and as such is not griefing. The intention of the corporation declaring war, the frequency with which they declare war, the size of the relative corporations are all irrelevant. A one man corp who chooses to declare war every 3 days against a 50 man mining operation is not considered griefing in Eve Online. Therefore your ideas to adjust the game mechanics to make it harder to 'grief' are also irrelevant. There are numerous ways to remove mindless 'griefing' war declarations within current mechanics, rather than adjust these mechanics players finding themselves under multiple war declarations should learn how to make themselves less favourable targets. Yours sincerely Jita Alt666
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:43:00 - [49] Originally by: Tippia Do you have a link to said definition? Just being disruptive isn't enough here ù it is, in fact, a quite legitimate tactic. Attacking is not a requirement. Well yes. If you read my posts earlier, I link specifically to the definition of griefing on the wiki. You then quote a specific section yourself from CCP on griefing war decs, and I'd like to point out this to you: "While they are sometimes used for actual griefing (ie, declared only for the malicious enjoyment of seeing the victim suffer)" This not only acknowledges that CCP know these exist, thereby destroying your argument that there is no such thing as a griefing war dec (really you should have thought twice before linking a direct subject on it). And once again, I have NO PROBLEM with the fact that war decs exist. CCP state: "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense" And neither do I want it to be. So I'd like to take those that fall into the first quoted category, and mitigate this with my solution. Let me clarify for you again, because you've managed to not read anything I've posted so far: I dont object to griefing being possible in game. I dont object to PVP. I dont object to war decs. What I would like is for it to be less desirable for griefers that fall into the "declared only for the malicious enjoyment of seeing the victim suffer" category, to actually partake in this action. As I even said in my original post, I dont object to the griefing occurring, but I'd like it to be at some cost so that declaring the war has to be a well thought out decision that requires commitment. Right now, it's just too easy to be a **** for the hell of it.
Whelan Jr	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:44:00 - [50] I don't..... This thread........ Wut?
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Jita Alt666 Dear OP: The war declaration system in Eve Online is reasonably well balanced. To be able to declare war on any one who chooses to be in a player run corporation is an intended part of game design and as such is not griefing. The intention of the corporation declaring war, the frequency with which they declare war, the size of the relative corporations are all irrelevant. A one man corp who chooses to declare war every 3 days against a 50 man mining operation is not considered griefing in Eve Online. Therefore your ideas to adjust the game mechanics to make it harder to 'grief' are also irrelevant. There are numerous ways to remove mindless 'griefing' war declarations within current mechanics, rather than adjust these mechanics players finding themselves under multiple war declarations should learn how to make themselves less favourable targets. Yours sincerely Jita Alt666 It is considered griefing (see links above), it's just not bannable. Nor do I want it to be. For what I do want, see my original post, and several responses.
Joe SMASH You Got A Purty Mouth	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:46:00 - [52] I officially declare this thread to be about pie. Warm, delicious apple pie... ::drool:: ----------------------------------- Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
Jita Alt666	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Senghir It is considered griefing (see links above), it's just not bannable. Nor do I want it to be. For what I do want, see my original post, and several responses. Dear Op: Please read the post by Tippa indicating that war declarations are not part of the definition as considered by CCP in the EULA. Definitions as provided by other games are again irrelevant. I did read your ideas (and am mildly insulted by your implied presumption that I haven't) and I completely disagree with your ideas and believe them to irrelevant to the game and investigating further would be a waste of developer time. Yours sincerely Jita Alt666
Lady Ayeipsia	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:51:00 - [54] Originally by: Joe SMASH I officially declare this thread to be about pie. Warm, delicious apple pie... ::drool:: JOE! That is not what you do with apple pie!!!
Senghir Amarr Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:54:00 - [55] Originally by: Jita Alt666 Dear Op: Please read the post by Tippa indicating that war declarations are not part of the definition as considered by CCP in the EULA. Definitions as provided by other games are again irrelevant. I did read your ideas (and am mildly insulted by your implied presumption that I haven't) and I completely disagree with your ideas and believe them to irrelevant to the game and investigating further would be a waste of developer time. Yours sincerely Jita Alt666 Please read my response to Tippia's post that quotes CCP: "While they are sometimes used for actual griefing (ie, declared only for the malicious enjoyment of seeing the victim suffer)" Once again, it's not bannable, nor do I want it to be. For everything else, read my fuller response to Tippia.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:56:00 - [56] Originally by: Senghir Well yes. If you read my posts earlier, I link specifically to the definition of griefing on the wiki. àand as mentioned, it doesn't apply to EVE. Quote: You then quote a specific section yourself from CCP on griefing war decs, and I'd like to point out this to you: àbut you're missing the stinger to that one: wardecs aren't griefing by definition. CCP acknowledges that griefing exists ù a wardec in and of itself, however, never qualifies, and "wardec griefing" doesn't exist. If you want to stop griefing, you need toà wait for ità àstop griefing. Don't confuse the matter by including wardecs, because they're not a part of it. You are trying to "fix" a tool (which is never the problem, CCP says as much), when the problem is the behaviour (which CCP will already ban you for). Quote: Let me clarify for you again, because you've managed to not read anything I've posted so far: Me not giving you the answers you want doesn't mean I haven't read what you write ù it means I don't agree with what you write. Quote: I dont object to griefing being possible in game. Ehm. Now, you do realise that griefing isn't allowed in EVE, right? It's a bannable offence. Quote: What I would like is for it to be less desirable for griefers that fall into the "declared only for the malicious enjoyment of seeing the victim suffer" category, to actually partake in this action. àand in doing so, you're also destroying a number of valid tactics. How do you propose to separate legitimate disruption from griefing through a game mechanic? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Baneken Gallente School of the Unseen	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:57:00 - [57] Originally by: Nicholas Barker OP is troll/****ed/brazilian/an ex wow player. Now this is the part where I have to ask WTF has being from Brazil to do with playing wow, being ****ed or trolling ? http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2010.11.16 19:59:00 - [58] One thing i do know, after this thread,his corp is gonna decced for a long long time.
Joe SMASH You Got A Purty Mouth	Posted - 2010.11.16 20:01:00 - [59] Originally by: heheheh One thing i do know, after this thread,his corp is gonna decced for a long long time. Yep. I have locator agents and vote in the oven now. I suggest others do the same. ----------------------------------- Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
Dlardrageth ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.16 20:03:00 - [60] Originally by: Baneken Originally by: Nicholas Barker OP is troll/****ed/brazilian/an ex wow player. Now this is the part where I have to ask WTF has being from Brazil to do with playing wow, being ****ed or trolling ? "Nigerian businessman" would prolly have been too obvious...

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.