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Spoon Thumb
Mamaleek
Black Inquisition
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Posted - 2010.11.22 01:26:00 -
[1]
Sorry if this has been done before, but I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to the markets and am having a little trouble with PI markets
I've looked at the PI POS fuels (enriched Uranium, Coolant, Robotics, Mechanical parts, Oxygen and also Consumer Electronics, which are used in Robotics), but most indicators seem to show no underlying increase or decrease in demand, nor supply.
However the prices seem to rise and fall in nice peaks and troughs.
In particular, I started making robotics by buying consumer electronics, reactive metals and precious metals. I took a break for two weeks and came back to find that consumer electronics and robotics had both skyrocketed, but that consumer electronics was still not profitable to make, and that robotics had gone from profitable to loss making. (I ended up making as much profit from the accidental speculation as from the two weeks prior to the break when I was actually running reactions)
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
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Posted - 2010.11.22 03:18:00 -
[2]
It's going up.
All of it.
Forever.
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Ralien Tor
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Posted - 2010.11.22 03:29:00 -
[3]
If you mean that "consumer electronics was still not profitable to make" based on the market prices of its ingredients, then I would say I am not surprised, because it is only a P2 material. It is not hard to make, even from weaker planets in high-sec systems, so anyone with halfway decent skills can easily set up the planetary infrastructure to just make what they need to produce materials further down the chain...like robotics. So if there is not much raw market demand for it (being in the middle of the PI chain), the market value will be low compared to the aggregated value of its ingredients, which can be used for other products.
I think that, in general, your time doing PI is only truly rewarded in two ways: 1. Making POS fuels for your corp to offset that cost, which can be huge; 2. Making P4 materials to sell, or use for yourself/corp.
Good luck, Spoon. Nice to see you again. (Was in PLDN a while back, but probably don't remember as it was short-lived for me.) 
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Dr Caymus
Gallente
Applied Technologies Inc
Agents of Fortune
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Posted - 2010.11.22 05:20:00 -
[4]
Also worthy of note is the fact that the above-mentioned commodities were all readily available NPC trade goods prior to the introduction of PI. Prices for the NPC goods were in the neighborhood of 5300 for EU, 1150 for Coolant, 6890 for Robotics, 634 for Mech Parts, 109 for Oxygen and 207 for Consumer Electronics.
Substantial inventories of each were purchased just prior to the PI roll-out, as can be seen on the one year charts. Traders speculating in this opportunity have been releasing their inventories to the market at a handsome profit. Over time, prices of these commodities will rise to approach their "build up" equivalents, as pre-PI inventories are consumed.
Dr Caymus
-=ATI=-
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.11.22 05:22:00 -
[5]
Making Consumer Electronics in high sec is folly.
You could as easily make... Biocells sell them and buy Consumer Electronics for a better profit.
It's different if your in 0.0 though where accessing the Jita stockpiles is more difficult.
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Spoon Thumb
Mamaleek
Black Inquisition
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Posted - 2010.11.22 09:31:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Ralien Tor
So if there is not much raw market demand for it (being in the middle of the PI chain), the market value will be low compared to the aggregated value of its ingredients, which can be used for other products.
Good luck, Spoon. Nice to see you again. (Was in PLDN a while back, but probably don't remember as it was short-lived for me.)
This is what I was missing, that the price of the ingredients is affected by the other stuff it is used to make. So that even if something is unprofitable, the ingredients will keep it unprofitable if something else made with those ingredients is still profitable
And yes I do still remember you :), though you're right, it was short-lived...
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Rupicolous
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2010.11.22 23:00:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rupicolous on 22/11/2010 23:02:19
In most of EVE there is a 10% profit, give or take a bit.
In PI there is probably less than that simply because what ever you sell can be put with something else and made into another.
It comes down to a simple (or complex) calculation to what an extractor or processor becomes worth.
If anyone can take and reproduce, the profit will be the same or null across the board with higher level products simply costing more because they take more material to produce or because the gathering/ transporting/ launching etc. costs more.
Bottom line is that a 1 hour cycle is worth a 1 hr cycle.
hope that helps some .........
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Rupicolous
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2010.11.22 23:25:00 -
[8]
I'm a bit embarrased with my last response.
What I'm trying to say is that there is no way in hell that you're going to see 10% on 10% on 10% all the way up the production line.
The reason is, alot of players will just bypass the bottom or middle and go to the top (which is prbably already the case)
This will only last for a very short period before the rest of the community realises what is happening and responds with higher
low end prices making high end products to expensive hence lowering sales till an equilibrium is found.
So in the end only the materials that are more rare or less abundant are going to sell for more but the profit will still not change on a extractor-processor / isk ratio.
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