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Faelzeth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 03:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
In my effort to think of how the game can be improved upon its design and appeal to all players, I decided to put my attention to the aspect of traveling through the numerous systems of Eve.
As of now, there are only two methods of traveling between systems. Star Gates, and Jumping. Both instantaneous methods of travel that would take years to travel at the speed of light.
Here's a little science and math.
Now we know that based on human measurements, Earth being 1 AU (about 93 million miles [149,597,870 km]) from Sol, our local star, light takes 7 minutes to travel before it reaches our planet.
Ships such as frigates in Eve are traveling at speeds such as 6 AU per second. Approximately 558,000,000 Miles (897,587,220 km) per second.
The speed of light is about 186,282 miles per second.
A light year (the distance light takes to travel over one year) is about 63,240 AU. I'll save you the extra numbers and be brief)
Star systems are about 1.8 - 5+ light years in distance.
A frigate wanting to travel just 1 light year would take about three hours. This obviously wouldn't be acceptable to a player as no one would want to sit in warp for three hours.
My suggestion: I want to see how implementing trans-system warping could work out. Here is a mechanic.
Star Gates provide instant travel between systems: The luxury / reward With an established point of entry and exit with Star Gates, hostiles in gate camps can effectively cut off travel: The risk
Much of the design of Eve with High Risk-High Reward, this idea should be propelled in the sense that if the player wants to give up the luxury of instant travel, they eliminate the risk of hostiles and gate camps.
To response to the problem of a three hour plus warp... Players who wish to engage in these extended warps will require a modification to their ships engine, a module (Low, Medium, High,) that will increase the speed of their ship's warp. For the sake of the player, but to appeal to game balance, certain penalties should be in effect like the Micro-Warp Drive does with its Capacitor and Signature Radius bonuses.
For a ship to travel from one system to another, I figured that warping between the two systems should take about 15 minutes, maybe more or less? The deal with a trans-system warp is, in order to travel a distance of let's say 3 light years in 15 minutes, a ship's warp would have to be a little over a staggering 200 AU / second.
The power to reach... and maintain this speed... would be immense. But it's science fiction, anything is possible.
There would have to be a lot of thought, more than what I've contrived here, to make a balanced implementation of this.
Purely from a game-design perspective, I think this could work. For the sake of lore in the Eve universe, I'm unsure how "science" could explain an increase of speed to 200 AU/second.
I personally love traveling in the game of Eve, watching the blue and red shift around the ship as I casually pass by a star. To watch the nebulae grow and shrink into the distance would truly bring about a sense of awe in me.
Does this have potential? Ideas welcomed. |

Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 04:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Greetings
The idea as you put it intrigues me. As you say balance is the key. Maybe a system wide broadcast that an incoming trans-system warp is inbound ( or a module or SOV upgrade whatever) , giving probers a chance at finding the possible ingress point, via disturbed gravity well or insert flashy sifi words here. IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |

Octoven
Four Pillar Production Dragehund
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 04:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
I do like this idea, it is one of the better long warp Ideas Ive seen on this forum. Essentially you are balancing things up whilst giving both parties (Campers and travelers) a choice of path. This adds to the whole sandbox mentality of eve, your choices have consequences
I would support this kind of change |

Evil Vile
Prope Exitum
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 04:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
I do like the idea behind this quite a bit. We have our usual cyno/jump bridge travel, but with this why not do something along the lines of the triage module. If you want to make the jump, you activate a module that puts you in stasis until the warp drives are completely warmed up. For instance, for every jump it takes 5 minutes for the module to warm up, and the ship cannot do anything except wait, or get blown up. So the pilot has to wait 5 minutes for every jump it wants to make. Unless it was a non-corp, high-sec pilot, they would need a fleet to help protect it like a POS until it has jumped and left stasis.
Risk vs reward. It could make for an easy jump to another region to transport items, but still have the ability to be intercepted.
Just a thought. |

Faelzeth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 04:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Easthir Ravin wrote:Greetings
The idea as you put it intrigues me. As you say balance is the key. Maybe a system wide broadcast that an incoming trans-system warp is inbound ( or a module or SOV upgrade whatever) , giving probers a chance at finding the possible ingress point, via disturbed gravity well or insert flashy sifi words here.
I like the disturbed gravity well idea. It would definitely increase the need for probers and maintain the need for gate camps, rather system camps. Would that gravity well be exact or be a random spot in the system? |

Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 04:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote: Purely from a game-design perspective, I think this could work. For the sake of lore in the Eve universe, I'm unsure how "science" could explain an increase of speed to 200 AU/second.
Well, the EVE lore explains warp tech by using zero-Vacuum or so. I doubt it should be that hard to have it explained by thoroughly as we are already experiencing FTL mechanics.
A chance of detecting an incoming "star jump" would be cool, alike probing as mentioned above. Perhaps have a specific POS module that detects the distortion (only detects, not locate it), warning that something might be imbound.
I however have the feeling people might be a bit edgy regarding the total freedom of star-warping from A to B.
But yes, there needs to be alternatives in terms of FTL/jumping. It has to be a oneway trip though - without dropping in mid-deadspace between the stars. confirthisposmed
Yes. I'm a writer. And I'm a writer. |

Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 05:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
This idea has been posted and shot down numerous times in various incarnations. The most recent one spawned a hilarious discussion of capital (namely triage) mechanics, hosted by a guy who wouldn't know how undock, nevermind operate, a capital ship even if he did manage to get a hold of one.
The problem with this idea is that it completely removes the choke points that stargates provide. While titans enable people to do this already, it does require a fair amount of planning and getting 200 clueless drake pilots to navigate a menu without shooting each other. (it also provides the potential lulz of the titan having a "derp" moment and activating his own jump drive instead of the jump portal) |

Faelzeth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 06:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:
The problem with this idea is that it completely removes the choke points that stargates provide.
Right, that was a concern when I was thinking of this. Thus the idea of having a probe-able site to scan out. Perhaps limiting it to the same paths that star gates could assist in the preservation of gate camps, as long as the other side has the ability to scan out potential incoming targets. |

Ja'thaal Deathbringer
The Dark Wheel Corporation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 07:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hey there. It's a good idea, in theory, but would need a little more to it than what you've stated.
What about a mid slot module that is essentially a hyper drive? Now, I've been thinking about this myself, and I could see it working like this:
The difference between Warp Drive and Hyper Drive is that Warp engines operate on acceleration of the entire ship in regular space, making them travel at immense speeds faster than light. Hyper Drives, on the other hand, operate on a principle of opening up two windows in subspace and moving the windows between origin and destination points closer together in subspace, and then accelerating the ship into the subspace window. By closer, I mean a LOT closer, but travel in hyperspace isn't instantaneous, nor is it infallible.
Hyper Drive engines would require a massive amount of capacitor to maintain a stable subspace window, so obviously, the smaller the ship, the lower the range given capacitor limitations. Also, Hyper Drive engines would work on a similar principle to Jump Drives, and would still need some sort of destination solution in order achieve and maintain a stable hyper drive window. Also, Hyper Drives would still be effected by Cynosural Jamming arrays due to the fact that the jamming arrays work on a principle of disrupting all ships in its vicinity to lock on to the destination solution of cynosural beacons, or the ability to create a destination solution for their hyper drive.
Long story short, Hyper Drives would serve as gateless inter-system travel that would still have limitations and would also take time to move from system to system. |

Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 09:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
3 hours per light year is perfectly acceptable, espescially since you can warp while logged out. Since you can't select anything but the sun from outside a system there is still a celestial bottleneck to be defended, and if local updates at even a tenth of a lightyear out there will be no problem of suprise attacks. You do not even need a module, just a different procedure for warping. Perhaps a "preparing for interstellar warp (journey will take 5.83 hours)" message followed by a 30 second timer which spools up the warp drive for continuous warp mode. |
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Horus V
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 10:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Faelzeth wrote:Astroniomix wrote:
The problem with this idea is that it completely removes the choke points that stargates provide.
Right, that was a concern when I was thinking of this. Thus the idea of having a probe-able site to scan out. Perhaps limiting it to the same paths that star gates could assist in the preservation of gate camps, as long as the other side has the ability to scan out potential incoming targets.
Yesss.
+1 from me ! REMOVE LOCAL !!! |

Zuriaake Yn Gizarm
Schwarze Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 11:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
i dont know if these long warps are possible to develop so easy, but i think it would be as 1000 times cooler as gates.
after long years of playing, the gates taking the feeling of an endless space away a bit :(
i think the gates could exist further but, i rather had an eyeopening epic fly through the giant nebulas between minmatar and gallente nebulas instead of a simple half second plop.
if the gates would exist in that way, the rules and systems of gatecamp etc. would still work..
thats my opinion
sorry for my minmatarian english
fly safe^^ |

Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 13:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Choke points aren't that great either to be blunt. Some points of 0.0 are dead-easy to defend just because there is pretty much only one way to enter. Might as well say that it is a carebear haven because one can easily defend any visitor slowboating in.
One must keep in mind that you cannot come with the I live the rough life of eve and I'm a tough pvper, yet have a simple and easy door to defend anybody who even dares to warp2zero on that gate.
I know there is cyno and people who can attempt to visit, but not everybody, especially roaming small gangs, have Titan/Blackops. And this is possibly the reason why the OP is suggestion an alternate propulsion system.
I'm certain there is a way so that it is not that efficient. For instance, say if there is a huge SOV-alliance, you should be able to indirectly-hyperjump to one the bordering SOV systems rather than a random star deep in the heart of this Alliance.
To possibly add to this suggestion: Aside to POS modules detecting "hyper jump/gravimetric anomalies", the defending alliance could maybe have those player-owned PI custom offices have additional stellar sensory to detect them. Perhaps the "Remote Sensing" (PI skill) could be of any use here. Herp-derp - one could have PI modules/structures feature some orbital "Hubble" satellites to detect those anomalies.
As one propose, that unknown gravity well should randomly be placed in the star system and it shouldn't be all too easy to probe out, meaning you need the probing experts who actually skill things through and not those who just skill to level2.
Lastly, the Deep Space Scan Probe with the 256 AU or so radius - I forgot the name - could be more of a use here. confirthisposmed
Yes. I'm a writer. And I'm a writer. |

Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 14:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
You talk as if there's a problem with alliances defending their space too easily, but the opposite is true. Even with long pipes and choke points many solo and small gang hunters are able to get through. The majority of camps in nullsec are set up by invaders, not home defence fleets. Bombers, recons, cloaky t3s and blackops can strike whenever and wherever they like no matter how big a camp they have to pass through, and as a sov peasant your alliance is powerless to defend you from them. Nullsec is already halfway into barbarism, fighting out of boredom whilst making money on alts in highsec. This isn't a good time to start making them more vulnerable |

Dureena Nafee1
art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 14:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
This idea is intriguing, so how about adding a new galaxy to explore, a single jump gate to a concord controlled system, then all other jumps from there are via this method, and you can then introduce
Gate Building Ships. Like a Pos but you can then make your own systems and build your own connections and it would truly be completely new and exciting, like WH space but better.
Think you could have whole alliances leaving by this single gate, manually jumping to a new system then building a gate out from there. so their "network" is not connected to the rest of the universe and needs this module to get there. - until someone else comes in and links up to their network, gates able to be destroyed etc.
That would definately be Eve 2
Edit : - hey even allow everything to be player made in the new galaxy so customs offices, stations etc, wouldnt that make it more interesting when you even have to make the gates for use.... |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
487
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 16:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
I have a couple of suggestions.
Power: Have this use fuel, a predictable amount you would need on board before your drive could start the long warp. No need for a module extra on this at all. If you lack the fuel, you need to use public transit gate style.
Beacon required: This isn't for a jump drive, so there is no reason for it to show up on the overview. Someone had to drop a beacon, and anchor it. Once the jump is started, the beacon is no longer needed, as the ship takes the information it needs only when initiating warp. This DOES mean if you know several are planning on using a beacon, you can have covert eyes watching from the other side. Only allow through the ships you like, then destroy it before others can use it to follow. Details: Only one person can use the beacon at a time, the beacon needs 10 seconds to charge. (Need a bunch through faster? use multiple beacons) Personal, Corp or Alliance level access restrictions. Covert Beacon: only the covops frigate can lock onto this, it is very hard to scan down if not impossible. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |

Reicine Ceer
Rodents of Unusual Size The Rat Race
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 17:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Babylon 5 jumpgate technology; you fly "into" warp-space, where you're travelling at unimaginably vast speeds, and exit out of a jumpgate. Similar to what we have now, but *not* instantaneous. This is precisely what would work for the whole "explaining away 200AU/s :) |

mine mi
Hispania Armored Forces Vera Cruz Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 18:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
a variant idea
The idea is the ships can create a artificial Wormhole to the destiny, with only one exit; the distance between the two entries is 1/1000 of the real distance in au, the mass they can pass is 175% of the ship who create the w/h and the only ship who can see the exit Pross: can not cyno jam Conss: take time to travel
|

Faelzeth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 23:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
An infographic on Long Distance Warp Mechanics |

Emulated
Black Guards Black Core Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 12:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
i personally think gates are ****. so +1 |
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Sophia Elandros
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
I like the idea of giving a POS module the ability to detect Gravimetric Disturbances. That would give the probers the a nice warning that they should start doing their jobs.
Nice idea, OP. +1 |

Gorn Arming
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
This is an awful idea. It's a terrible kludge that solves no current problem. There are plenty of ways to get through or around a gatecamp.
I guess it's easier to push a button and go make a pot of tea than have to think your way out of a blockade, though. |

Faelzeth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sophia Elandros wrote:I like the idea of giving a POS module the ability to detect Gravimetric Disturbances. That would give the probers the a nice warning that they should start doing their jobs.
Nice idea, OP. +1
Yes, this is will add for security. Some corporations use a surveillance chat to report hostiles traveling through a region. This is dire information for ratters, miners, heck... EVERYONE. Having a POS Module, (passive or manned?) Detecting and warning players is important to maintain balance. |

Faelzeth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gorn Arming wrote:This is an awful idea. It's a terrible kludge that solves no current problem. There are plenty of ways to get through or around a gatecamp.
I guess it's easier to push a button and go make a pot of tea than have to think your way out of a blockade, though.
You are correct in that it isn't actually solving a 'problem', there isn't a problem I'm addressing. This is a focusing on improving and adding content relative to the game that can add to the player experience. |

Gorn Arming
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 19:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Faelzeth wrote:Gorn Arming wrote:This is an awful idea. It's a terrible kludge that solves no current problem. There are plenty of ways to get through or around a gatecamp.
I guess it's easier to push a button and go make a pot of tea than have to think your way out of a blockade, though. You are correct in that it isn't actually solving a 'problem', there isn't a problem I'm addressing. This is a focusing on improving and adding content relative to the game that can add to the player experience. Can you explain in concrete gameplay terms what this adds to the game? I see nothing here beyond "another way to get around a camped gate", and there are a dozen or so ways to do that already (which is already more than we need). |

Faelzeth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 20:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gorn Arming wrote:Faelzeth wrote:Gorn Arming wrote:This is an awful idea. It's a terrible kludge that solves no current problem. There are plenty of ways to get through or around a gatecamp.
I guess it's easier to push a button and go make a pot of tea than have to think your way out of a blockade, though. You are correct in that it isn't actually solving a 'problem', there isn't a problem I'm addressing. This is a focusing on improving and adding content relative to the game that can add to the player experience. Can you explain in concrete gameplay terms what this adds to the game? I see nothing here beyond "another way to get around a camped gate", and there are a dozen or so ways to do that already (which is already more than we need).
Let's say you are apart of a gate camp. You and your fleet members are enjoying their time hanging around and getting any unsuspecting pilots who can easily fall into a trap. This is the nature of gate camps, there is no chance for that lone pilot. This should also be preserved, because gates and jump bridges would still be a primary method of travel between the systems of Eve.
The two methods of travel currently (Technically Three):
Star Gates - Instant System to System node transfers available to all players for free, but subject to gate camps and must be connecting systems.
Jumping - Instant System to System node transfers available to trained pilots, reliable on Cyno Generators and an additional pilot. This allows pilots the luxury of skipping systems and a reduced number of jumps. Only available for use in 0.0 - 0.4 Space.
Jump Bridges - Corp owned, requires resources and maintenance. Also allows pilots the luxury of skipping systems and a reduced number of jumps. Only available for use in systems less than 0.1 Space.
The concern is how this will affect gate camps. One could think that everyone would rather long warp instead of using a gate, effectively destroying the usefulness of a gate camp. I have spent a lot of time thinking how this can co-exist because I personally enjoy partaking in gate camps.
I was thinking this new method of travel would appeal to as a method of faster travel in high-sec. And a balance would be in place that there would be a risk in using this long-warp in low-sec / null-sec... That risk is pilots can easily detect your movements via some sort of scanning (passive or active) as to deter long-warps around blockades, thus preserving the need to get around gate-camps the traditional way. If you want to long-warp around a blockade, you're essentially hanging up your "HEY HERE I AM" sign. This can prove useful too for players in null-sec in traveling around, but being the nature of a high-profile travel will make a pilot think twice if they should.
It's a mechanic that adds to the risky game play of Eve that I think could be beneficial. |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
490
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 20:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
What is the range of this?
Does it only duplicate travel where gates connect? (Obviously bypassing the gate)
Does it have a jump range? (This system is closer than many gate connected ones, so you could reach it) Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |

Faelzeth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 20:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:What is the range of this?
Does it only duplicate travel where gates connect? (Obviously bypassing the gate)
Does it have a jump range? (This system is closer than many gate connected ones, so you could reach it)
A good series question. All dependent on variables such as capacitor, ship size, hull warp speed... It's range could technically be anything, but should it? Should it have a shorter range? If it were too long, players in High Sec would only need one warp, essentially removing the need to traverse through the many other systems. But at the same time we realize that star-gate travel is faster- instant travel.
What if... the time it would take to travel 20(random number) jumps would be equivalent to the time it would take to Long Warp that same destination. However if you wanted to Long-Warp anything less, you're travel time will be greatly extended compared to the travel time of Star Gates. This will urge players who want to navigate hastily through the systems use star gates. |

Gorn Arming
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 20:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Faelzeth wrote:Gorn Arming wrote:Faelzeth wrote:Gorn Arming wrote:This is an awful idea. It's a terrible kludge that solves no current problem. There are plenty of ways to get through or around a gatecamp.
I guess it's easier to push a button and go make a pot of tea than have to think your way out of a blockade, though. You are correct in that it isn't actually solving a 'problem', there isn't a problem I'm addressing. This is a focusing on improving and adding content relative to the game that can add to the player experience. Can you explain in concrete gameplay terms what this adds to the game? I see nothing here beyond "another way to get around a camped gate", and there are a dozen or so ways to do that already (which is already more than we need). Let's say you are apart of a gate camp. You and your fleet members are enjoying their time hanging around and getting any unsuspecting pilots who can easily fall into a trap. This is the nature of gate camps, there is no chance for that lone pilot. This should also be preserved, because gates and jump bridges would still be a primary method of travel between the systems of Eve. The two methods of travel currently (Technically Three): Star Gates - Instant System to System node transfers available to all players for free, but subject to gate camps and must be connecting systems. Jumping - Instant System to System node transfers available to trained pilots, reliable on Cyno Generators and an additional pilot. This allows pilots the luxury of skipping systems and a reduced number of jumps. Only available for use in 0.0 - 0.4 Space. Jump Bridges - Corp owned, requires resources and maintenance. Also allows pilots the luxury of skipping systems and a reduced number of jumps. Only available for use in systems less than 0.1 Space. The concern is how this will affect gate camps. One could think that everyone would rather long warp instead of using a gate, effectively destroying the usefulness of a gate camp. I have spent a lot of time thinking how this can co-exist because I personally enjoy partaking in gate camps. I was thinking this new method of travel would appeal to as a method of faster travel in high-sec. And a balance would be in place that there would be a risk in using this long-warp in low-sec / null-sec... That risk is pilots can easily detect your movements via some sort of scanning (passive or active) as to deter long-warps around blockades, thus preserving the need to get around gate-camps the traditional way. If you want to long-warp around a blockade, you're essentially hanging up your "HEY HERE I AM" sign. This can prove useful too for players in null-sec in traveling around, but being the nature of a high-profile travel will make a pilot think twice if they should. It's a mechanic that adds to the risky game play of Eve that I think could be beneficial. I see a lot of :words: about why this won't harm gatecamps and very little about what you think it actually ADDS to the game to begin with. You've only peripherally touched on this with "...mechanic that adds to the risky game play of Eve that I think could be beneficial" which amounts to "I like it".
Seriously, even if I accepted that this won't just add another way to bypass someone else's control of space, why implement it? Why are you asking that the devs spend time on this instead of on rebalancing ships or adding new modules? Whether you realize it or not, that's what you're asking, and you haven't provided a good reason even when I asked you directly.
Nope. |

Faelzeth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 20:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
It adds new content. Directly. |
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