EVE Search - Gallente are inferior pilots

All Channels

Intergalactic Summit

Gallente are inferior pilots

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.24 17:40:00 - [1] Edited by: Lady Skank on 24/11/2010 17:44:43 A very interesting survey on capsuleer demographics was published recently detailing some official Concord records of ship destruction statistics which unsurprisingly prove Caldari are superior combat pilots to the Gallenteans. Caldari pilots accounted for 35.8% of all pod pilots and accounted for 38.3% of all recorded kills for only 36.5% of all recorded losses. Gallente pilots accounted for 20.5% of all pod pilots and accounted for 22.8% or all recorded kills but for 25.7% of all recorded losses So proportionally not only are Caldari more willing to engage in combat to defend their interests they are also more likely to be successful, Maybe its time for the Gallente to review their pacifist ways before they become overwhelmed by a horde of hardened Caldari veterans and I do not think offering them some organic Intaki peace crisps will help them much. The same statistics also prove that Minmatar are more successful combat pilots than Amarrians.
StalinGrad6 Gallente Black Mesa Mavericks	Posted - 2010.11.24 17:56:00 - [2] ******************** A Question: If a Soldier is too scared to fight, how many people will he kill? The Answer: NONE. The Piont: Psychological Warfare. More powerful that a 3500mm cannon.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2010.11.24 18:35:00 - [3] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 24/11/2010 18:38:13 Originally by: StalinGrad6 A Question: If a Soldier is too scared to fight, how many people will he kill? The Answer: NONE. The Piont: Psychological Warfare. More powerful that a 3500mm cannon. Assuming that this is what you posted in order to say, pilot, are you saying that the Gallente are the masters of psychological warfare or its victims? That said, these statistics probably don't mean quite what the OP is suggesting. As a thought, they could reflect which empires produce proportionally more or fewer industrial and combat pilots-- and what happens when the two meet.
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse	Posted - 2010.11.24 18:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Lady Skank Edited by: Lady Skank on 24/11/2010 17:44:43 A very interesting survey on capsuleer demographics was published recently detailing some official Concord records of ship destruction statistics which unsurprisingly prove Caldari are superior combat pilots to the Gallenteans. Caldari pilots accounted for 35.8% of all pod pilots and accounted for 38.3% of all recorded kills for only 36.5% of all recorded losses. Gallente pilots accounted for 20.5% of all pod pilots and accounted for 22.8% or all recorded kills but for 25.7% of all recorded losses So proportionally not only are Caldari more willing to engage in combat to defend their interests they are also more likely to be successful, Maybe its time for the Gallente to review their pacifist ways before they become overwhelmed by a horde of hardened Caldari veterans and I do not think offering them some organic Intaki peace crisps will help them much. The same statistics also prove that Minmatar are more successful combat pilots than Amarrians. Validate and Certify your source or its just more white noise. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aria Jenneth Caldari Kumiho's Smile Naraka.	Posted - 2010.11.24 18:40:00 - [5] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 24/11/2010 18:41:24 Originally by: Syn Callibri Validate and Certify your source or its just more white noise. It's a recently-released economic report, Ms. Callibri. Available here.
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse	Posted - 2010.11.24 19:05:00 - [6] Thank you Aria...its a shame that the one making these claims needs you to support her own opinions. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
De'Veldrin Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.11.24 19:12:00 - [7] As Ms. Jenneth points out, without supporting data such as type of ship lost by race, we could also just as easily claim the Caldari are a bunch of cowards who spend all their time shooting at mining vessels and industrial ships so they won't actually risk taking a loss. Neither of these "facts" are supported by the available evidence. --Vel
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.24 20:09:00 - [8] Originally by: De'Veldrin As Ms. Jenneth points out, without supporting data such as type of ship lost by race, we could also just as easily claim the Caldari are a bunch of cowards who spend all their time shooting at mining vessels and industrial ships so they won't actually risk taking a loss. Neither of these "facts" are supported by the available evidence. Considering all but one class of ship in the top twenty lost vessels is an Industrial ship and only 2,984 of those where lost its highly likely that those statistics reflect that all of the destroyed ships where at least in theory combat capable. Unless you are suggesting of course that the majority of Gallente undergo capsule training only to do the job that any Navy rookie should be capable of and shoot the crew piloted outlaw faction vessels yet fail miserably when they come face to face with another capsuleer?
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse	Posted - 2010.11.24 20:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Lady Skank Originally by: De'Veldrin As Ms. Jenneth points out, without supporting data such as type of ship lost by race, we could also just as easily claim the Caldari are a bunch of cowards who spend all their time shooting at mining vessels and industrial ships so they won't actually risk taking a loss. Neither of these "facts" are supported by the available evidence. Considering all but one class of ship in the top twenty lost vessels is an Industrial ship and only 2,984 of those where lost its highly likely that those statistics reflect that all of the destroyed ships where at least in theory combat capable. Unless you are suggesting of course that the majority of Gallente undergo capsule training only to do the job that any Navy rookie should be capable of and shoot the crew piloted outlaw faction vessels yet fail miserably when they come face to face with another capsuleer? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fleet Defense Commanding
Akrasjel Lanate Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2010.11.24 20:13:00 - [10] Originally by: Lady Skank Edited by: Lady Skank on 24/11/2010 17:44:43 ...Maybe its time for the Gallente to review their pacifist ways before they become overwhelmed by a horde of hardened Caldari veterans and I do not think offering them some organic Intaki peace crisps will help them much. The same statistics also prove that Minmatar are more successful combat pilots than Amarrians. That's only statistics... We are not afraid of the Caldari... Why would we..
Dilaro thagriin	Posted - 2010.11.24 20:19:00 - [11] while these statistics may be right... perhaps your thinking is a little skewed... lets see shall we... the statistics as you have shown them, show that, a larger force, has caused more casualties than a smaller one, and have lost less ships than the smaller one. you speak of proportions. but seem willing to take these points wholly out of context, just to make the caldari look better.... so yes, capsule tech was granted to the caldari first... woohoo... and you have more people who have become capsuleers... yay... but really, these statistics in no way prove the abilities of any of the capsuleer pilots in the cluster. all they show is ship loss. if you want to see who the best pilots are, may i suggest you arrange a fight where the numbers would be even, and the situation controlled?? if the point of your 'analysis' there was not just some nationalistic claim on how great the caldari are... though, i personally doubt it was anything more. fly safe ms Skank.
Seriphyn Inhonores Gallente Eleutherian Guard	Posted - 2010.11.24 20:39:00 - [12] The Federal Defence Union has been the most deadliest militia in terms of ship kills since its creation, though it recently looks to be overtaken by the 24th. We've always been outnumbered by over a third of our numbers. That speaks for itself. ------------ Luminaire General Seriphyn Inhonores Eleutherian Guard [FDU]
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse	Posted - 2010.11.24 21:12:00 - [13] The Minmatar are the most feared race in the cluster, why else would the Amarrian Hard-liners and thier Caldari lap-dogs try so hard to defame us...call us inferior...mock us and try as hard as they can to keep us under thier boot? Why else would the Federation be so glad to have us at thier side in battle? ...just thought I'd state an opinion as biased as the OP. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fleet Defense Commanding
Dilaro thagriin	Posted - 2010.11.24 21:22:00 - [14] Psst.. Syn.. the first message within this particular IGS thread actually stated that our brave militia was performing better than the amarrians... and so they should. soon, we shall walk free of the valley.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.24 21:23:00 - [15] Edited by: Lady Skank on 24/11/2010 21:25:03 Originally by: Dilaro thagriin while these statistics may be right... perhaps your thinking is a little skewed... lets see shall we... the statistics as you have shown them, show that, a larger force, has caused more casualties than a smaller one, and have lost less ships than the smaller one. you speak of proportions. but seem willing to take these points wholly out of context, just to make the caldari look better.... so yes, capsule tech was granted to the caldari first... woohoo... and you have more people who have become capsuleers... yay... but really, these statistics in no way prove the abilities of any of the capsuleer pilots in the cluster. all they show is ship loss. if you want to see who the best pilots are, may i suggest you arrange a fight where the numbers would be even, and the situation controlled?? if the point of your 'analysis' there was not just some nationalistic claim on how great the caldari are... though, i personally doubt it was anything more. fly safe ms Skank. I think you are mistaken as to exactly what the statistics show as its not about the raw amount of kills or losses its about the proportion, if you re-read them you and consider that the Gallente are responsible for a disproportionate amount of ship losses for the amount of Gallente pilots yet the Caldari proportionately get more kills and suffer less losses than Gallente pilots.
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse	Posted - 2010.11.24 21:25:00 - [16] Originally by: Dilaro thagriin Psst.. Syn.. the first message within this particular IGS thread actually stated that our brave militia was performing better than the amarrians... and so they should. soon, we shall walk free of the valley. Pssst, Dilaro...it doesn't matter...the OP is drawing conclusions that aren't represented in the data. Besides, that part of it is common knowledge...we don't need "statistics" to figure that one out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fleet Defense Commanding
Dilaro thagriin	Posted - 2010.11.24 21:30:00 - [17] Originally by: Lady Skank I think you are mistaken as to exactly what the statistics show as its no about the raw amount of kills or losses its about the proportion, if you re-read them you and consider that the Gallente are responsible for a disproportionate amount of ship losses for the amount of Gallente pilots yet the Caldari proportionately get more kills and suffer less losses than Gallente pilots. still you take the statistics out of context.. an outnumbered force is almost certain to lose more ships. have i spelled it our clearly enough for you? as i said. if you wanted to see who the better pilots were, you would have to arrange a controlled event. with even numbers and skill levels on both sides. though, it would seem that is not your intention. merely claiming that a people are better due to the fact that they have taken down more ships during an imbalanced conflict does nothing to prove that the 'winning' side is better, merely more numerous. if a group of 8 frigates squares off against a group of 12, even if everything else is equal, then the 'better' side, as you would put it, would lose less ships. they can bring more firepower to bear at any one time.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.24 21:35:00 - [18] Originally by: Syn Callibri Originally by: Dilaro thagriin Psst.. Syn.. the first message within this particular IGS thread actually stated that our brave militia was performing better than the amarrians... and so they should. soon, we shall walk free of the valley. Pssst, Dilaro...it doesn't matter...the OP is drawing conclusions that aren't represented in the data. Besides, that part of it is common knowledge...we don't need "statistics" to figure that one out. The data is well..... the data and I cannot see how my conclusion is not represented by the data when all I have done is basically quoted that data and it shows that Gallente pilots on average tend to lose more ships and get less kills when coming face to face with another capsuleer. You can try and spin this anyway you want but its the truth, if you find the truth so offensive maybe you could convince fellow Gallenteans that they need to shape up and leave crewed pirate faction vessels alone and stop offering to meet enemies over a glass of wheat juice whilst swapping sandal recycling techniques and get some combat training.
Dilaro thagriin	Posted - 2010.11.24 21:42:00 - [19] Edited by: Dilaro thagriin on 24/11/2010 21:43:08 fellow gallenteans?? the data and i??? the data is well??? ok... you have answered my questions now. burdy boingy biggledy boo perhaps you understood that last part too... i surely did not. ....... psst Syn... she seems to think we're gallente.... odd that
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.24 21:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Dilaro thagriin she seems to think we're gallente.... odd that I thought Syn was based on her persistent white knighting, but I have edited my statement.
iyammarrok	Posted - 2010.11.24 22:09:00 - [21] ok, my turn. i am Gallente by the way, so yes. this is slightly biased. but, as pilot skank, (nice name by the way), was quick to point out, numbers can't lie. simple mathematics... should prove easy enough lets say that each of the frigates in the situation mr Thagriin showed, has an ability to deal out 2 damage per cycle, and can withstand 10 damage before being destroyed. we shall also say, for ease, that they can repair 1 damage per cycle. in a one on one engagement in this situation, the first person to shoot would, in general win the combat. now. the aforementioned fleets, 10 vs 15 frigates, if all other variables are the same for each ship, well, lets take this cycle by cycle shall we? cycle fleet 1 fleet 2 1 deals 20 damage deals 30 damage loses 2 ships, loses 1 ship 2 deals 16 damage deals 28 damage loses 3 ships loses 2 ships 3 deals 10 damage deals 24 damage loses 2 ships loses 1 ship 4 deals 6 damage deals 22 damage loses 2 ships loses no ships combat ends. so, given that the only difference in this was fleet size... and not pilot skill. your idea seems to be that the larger force would have lost proportionally MORE ships than the smaller.... lets see. fleet 1 fleet 2 10 ships (pilots) 15 ships 4 kills 10 kills 10 losses 4 losses i think, using such a simple model, should help to prove that the statistics are wrong... very wrong... statistics can say anything you want them to say..
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.24 23:57:00 - [22] I really like the way people are trying to spin around hard data by attempting to muddy the waters with things that just don't matter as the numbers don't lie, they are what they are. Would you try to claim that 10 is less than 5? because that is what you are doing.
snake driver Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.25 00:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Lady Skank I really like the way people are trying to spin around hard data by attempting to muddy the waters with things that just don't matter as the numbers don't lie, they are what they are. Would you try to claim that 10 is less than 5? because that is what you are doing. They are not arguing the data. The data is what it is. They are arguing with your interpretation of the data by presenting alternate means by which the same data could be produced without dictating that the Gallente are inferior pilots. Never mind that the data is largely meaningless. It is to vague and free of context to draw conclusions from. The only assertions that can be made from the data are exactly what the data state: Caldari pilots have a greater ratio of killing hits (a largely meaningless statistic) relative to the number of pilots than the Gallente, while the Gallente have a greater ratio of losses (a slightly more meaningful statistic, but still worthless without greater context). These data are not sufficient to support your claim that Gallente are inferior pilots. That is all. Whether they actually are inferior is not my concern - they may very well be. But the limited and context-free data we have been provided does not necessarily support that conclusion.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.25 01:11:00 - [24] Originally by: snake driver Originally by: Lady Skank I really like the way people are trying to spin around hard data by attempting to muddy the waters with things that just don't matter as the numbers don't lie, they are what they are. Would you try to claim that 10 is less than 5? because that is what you are doing. They are not arguing the data. The data is what it is. They are arguing with your interpretation of the data by presenting alternate means by which the same data could be produced without dictating that the Gallente are inferior pilots. Never mind that the data is largely meaningless. It is to vague and free of context to draw conclusions from. The only assertions that can be made from the data are exactly what the data state: Caldari pilots have a greater ratio of killing hits (a largely meaningless statistic) relative to the number of pilots than the Gallente, while the Gallente have a greater ratio of losses (a slightly more meaningful statistic, but still worthless without greater context). These data are not sufficient to support your claim that Gallente are inferior pilots. That is all. Whether they actually are inferior is not my concern - they may very well be. But the limited and context-free data we have been provided does not necessarily support that conclusion. So Caldari are more likely to be at least involved in a kill, ok I can see that but the numbers are consistent and don't appear to be the result of any anomalies, surely if they where generated so randomly there would be no real pattern and include a huge variance with no consistency yet the two races that have the lowest proportion of losses have the highest proportion of final blows. Even disregarding kills you can see by losses alone that Gallente pilots account for a disproportionate amount of losses showing that they are more likely to loose a ship in combat and due to this fact it makes it more probable that the data regarding final blows is also accurate. This combination soundly support my conclusion.
snake driver Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.25 02:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Lady Skank So Caldari are more likely to be at least involved in a kill, No. They are more likely to make the final hit that destroys a ship. When there are often dozens of people involved in a kill, this statistic becomes less meaningful. What you say may be true, but it is not necessarily what the data say. Quote: ok I can see that but the numbers are consistent and don't appear to be the result of any anomalies, surely if they where generated so randomly there would be no real pattern and include a huge variance with no consistency yet the two races that have the lowest proportion of losses have the highest proportion of final blows. Even disregarding kills you can see by losses alone that Gallente pilots account for a disproportionate amount of losses showing that they are more likely to loose a ship in combat and due to this fact it makes it more probable that the data regarding final blows is also accurate. This combination soundly support my conclusion. Again, we do not have the context to support this. I'm sure if you looked at the statistics of a group like the Privateers (or their new selves, the Orphanage) they would appear to be immensely talented combat pilots. However, if you ask just about anyone, few outside this number will tell you that's the case - the statistics alone to not give us the context to understand what's going on. The data supports the following conclusions: Caldari pilots are more likely to fire the killing shot. Gallente pilots are more prone to being destroyed. The data do not give sufficient context to determine why this is the case - you are concluding that it is because the Gallente are inferior combat pilots. While this is a natural assumption, the fact that there are other possible explanations of the data means that more information is needed before such a conclusion can be drawn scientifically. You are, of course, welcome to believe whatever you wish about the abilities of Gallente pilots. But there are far too many unknown variables in combat for us to make such sweeping judgments based on so little data with even less context.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.25 02:53:00 - [26] Originally by: snake driver The data supports the following conclusions: Caldari pilots are more likely to fire the killing shot. Gallente pilots are more prone to being destroyed. The data do not give sufficient context to determine why this is the case - you are concluding that it is because the Gallente are inferior combat pilots. While this is a natural assumption, the fact that there are other possible explanations of the data means that more information is needed before such a conclusion can be drawn scientifically. So the people who die more frequently and destroy less ships are not performing worse in combat? if someone mines more ore in less time are they not better miners? if an industrialist can create more produce and reduce costs further are they not more successful? The only rebuttal anybody has come up with is to reply to clear and reliable data with anecdotes or spin, the statistics cannot be disputed so all anyone can do is try and claim that they mean nothing.
snake driver Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.25 03:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Lady Skank So the people who die more frequently and destroy less ships are not performing worse in combat? if someone mines more ore in less time are they not better miners? if an industrialist can create more produce and reduce costs further are they not more successful? The only rebuttal anybody has come up with is to reply to clear and reliable data with anecdotes or spin, the statistics cannot be disputed so all anyone can do is try and claim that they mean nothing. The nature of diverse fleets means that some people are required to fly ships that get destroyed more frequently while other people choose to fly ships that are more survivable and get kills - both are required in a balanced fleet. Perhaps the Gallentean sense of gung-ho makes them more suited to flying ships like interdictors which die frequently but are required in order for the Caldari pilots to get their nice shiny kills. This would result in skewed statistics without there necessarily being a gap in combat ability. In short, combat is significantly more complicated than mining, as you compared it. You cannot draw conclusions regarding someone's superiority as a combat pilot based on such simple statistics. Period.
iyammarrok	Posted - 2010.11.25 03:38:00 - [28] ms skank. your line that the statistics cannot be disproven can be simply and easily disputed... is you ask any statistician what the word statistics means. they will say one of two things. either A) 'Lies' or B) 'what do you want it to mean?' secondly, the statistics do not only refer to combat vessels. need i remind you that the ship that is flown most often in the cluster is a hulk... with the retriever taking a place in the top 10 most flown ships. these all count towards the kill counts you claim are proof that gallente combat pilots are inferior. how many hulks, covetors, retrievers, iterons and other such vessels are counted as 'combat kills' by you when viewing those statistics? as Snake said, the data from which you have made such a sweeping statement is flawed. thus, without context, and a major sifting of the data that has been presented, to remove non-combat kills, nullsec kills, kills by non-caldari, concord interventions, and all manner of other reasons why a ship might be lost. your claim that we gallente are worse pilots is... laughable to say the least. i thank snake, for trying, using different words, and somewhat better punctuation, to explain the very thing i have been trying to point out. but it would seem Ms skank has no intention of listenting to intelligent argument, and is going to ignore everything that is said by people who don't agree with her. anyways, i have no wish to continue this, never have liked talking to a ferrocrete wall. i have shown, using a simple mathematical model, and various logical arguments, the flaws in your claims, if you refuse to see the truth, it cannot be shown to you.
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.25 05:08:00 - [29] iyammarrok the statistics I quoted purely concern combat nothing else, the report contains many other topics like the details of the ship classes lost and the amount of ships constructed and flown but the case I present here covers only the proportional kills and losses. Perhaps you might pursue the document yourself before making assumptions as to its contents, you never know it may help you or anyone construct an argument instead of trying to rebut facts with anecdotes.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2010.11.25 05:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Lady Skank Caldari pilots accounted for 35.8% of all pod pilots and accounted for 38.3% of all recorded kills Gallente pilots accounted for 20.5% of all pod pilots and accounted for 22.8% or all recorded kills Silly troll, your math is fail. Caldari only kill a measly 7% more than their population. The Gallente however kill a stunning 11% more in proportion to their population. Which means pound for pound, Gallente are actually more effective. Taxman IX: Risky Venture
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.25 08:56:00 - [31] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Originally by: Lady Skank Caldari pilots accounted for 35.8% of all pod pilots and accounted for 38.3% of all recorded kills Gallente pilots accounted for 20.5% of all pod pilots and accounted for 22.8% or all recorded kills Silly troll, your math is fail. Caldari only kill a measly 7% more than their population. The Gallente however kill a stunning 11% more in proportion to their population. Which means pound for pound, Gallente are actually more effective. I tip my hat sir, someone was finally able to present an argument based on fact rather than opinion. Still you cherry picked only part of the picture. while the Gallente kill proportion is slightly more favourable than it initially appears what about the losses? my conclusion still stands, kills are only one measure of a pilots combat effectiveness and the proportion of losses is far greater for the Gallente.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.11.25 11:36:00 - [32] Well, really. What do you expect? The Gallente have a selection of ships that ... at best, can only really be described as 'hairdresser' variants. I mean, it's nice that a Thorax has space for curling irons, and a well lit mirror for your makeup, but I can't help but feel that that level of decadence is merely a distraction from the serious business of making other ships explode. I daresay though, if you take the pilot out of his mobile bordello, it won't take too long for effectiveness to ... catch up with the rest of the galaxy.
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:32:00 - [33] Originally by: Dilaro thagriin Originally by: Lady Skank I think you are mistaken as to exactly what the statistics show as its no about the raw amount of kills or losses its about the proportion, if you re-read them you and consider that the Gallente are responsible for a disproportionate amount of ship losses for the amount of Gallente pilots yet the Caldari proportionately get more kills and suffer less losses than Gallente pilots. still you take the statistics out of context.. an outnumbered force is almost certain to lose more ships. have i spelled it our clearly enough for you? as i said. if you wanted to see who the better pilots were, you would have to arrange a controlled event. with even numbers and skill levels on both sides. though, it would seem that is not your intention. merely claiming that a people are better due to the fact that they have taken down more ships during an imbalanced conflict does nothing to prove that the 'winning' side is better, merely more numerous. if a group of 8 frigates squares off against a group of 12, even if everything else is equal, then the 'better' side, as you would put it, would lose less ships. they can bring more firepower to bear at any one time. Dilaro, its you who are not understanding the statistics. The data doesn't support your claims that the Gallente are fighting out numbered in any battle, they contain NO information as to the numbers in a specific battle. Your example is not relevant to the statistics, as they talk about total kills and losses, not the number in a single battle. Even so, I have fought in plenty of battles where the side with more numbers lost the fight and the side with smaller numbers suffered fewer losses. What the statistics show is that Gallente pilots are involved in ship losses at a greater rate than their share of total pilots and are involved in kills at a lower rate then they are involved in losses. Given from the data that over half of the battles occur in null sec, that likely means that most fights are not Caldari on one side and Gallente on the other (my corporation and alliance contain significant numbers of all races), so again your claims about the Gallente numbers being skewed by their fewer numbers is not supported by the data.
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:41:00 - [34] Edited by: Marrano Cardosa on 25/11/2010 15:41:40 Originally by: James Lyrus Well, really. What do you expect? The Gallente have a selection of ships that ... at best, can only really be described as 'hairdresser' variants. I mean, it's nice that a Thorax has space for curling irons, and a well lit mirror for your makeup, but I can't help but feel that that level of decadence is merely a distraction from the serious business of making other ships explode. I daresay though, if you take the pilot out of his mobile bordello, it won't take too long for effectiveness to ... catch up with the rest of the galaxy. Well, I use lots of different ships, and over 20% of my kills have come when I was in a Gallente ship, so I think your criticism is unfair. True, the ship I have the most kills in is the Drake, but the ship with the second most kills is the Myrmidon.
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2010.11.25 15:53:00 - [35] Edited by: Marrano Cardosa on 25/11/2010 15:54:07 Here is the problem I see with the OP's conclusions about the data. Lets say we have a fight with 9 Gallente pilots and 1 Caldari pilot attacking a single Gallente pilot. Due to various factors in the combat, the Caldari pilot scores the final blow against the lone Gallente pilot. The statistics score the outcome of this fight as 1 win for a Caldari pilot and 1 loss for the Gallente. Is this an accurate picture of the fight though? The problem on the ship kill numbers is that the kill is awarded only to 1 pilot, and it often is not even the most effective pilot.
iyammarrok	Posted - 2010.11.25 21:39:00 - [36] Originally by: Lady Skank iyammarrok the statistics I quoted purely concern combat nothing else whereas the report in question SPECIFICALLY states 'the data used for this analysis contains ALL SHIP KILLS throughout the [3 month period before this report was published]' now... ALL. SHIP. KILLS.... how is that not simple enough to understand?? i would like to ask how, all ship kills, which as i previously stated would contain mining vessels, haulers, freighters, capsules, shuttles, and all manner of other non-combat vessels, means only combat kills... let us define a combat kill.... that is when both sides are actively combat ready, and both participate in the combat. being shot AT does not count as active participation in a combat... in fact, if such a thing as passive combat existed, that would likely be it's definition. you seem to think that for it to count as a combat kill, only one side must be directly seeking combat. i have perused the document more than once, and unlike you, did more than skim read and take from that the information i wanted. if any others have not yet read the 'CONCORD' released document, then HERE it is.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2010.11.25 23:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Lady Skank I tip my hat sir, someone was finally able to present an argument based on fact rather than opinion. Still you cherry picked only part of the picture. while the Gallente kill proportion is slightly more favourable than it initially appears what about the losses? my conclusion still stands, kills are only one measure of a pilots combat effectiveness and the proportion of losses is far greater for the Gallente. Well I didn't want to speak ill of anyone, but sure we can address losses. Caldari die a mere 2% more in proportion to their population, while the Gallente die an amazing of 25% more than their population. Using "Lady Spank Logic"(tm) one can immediately determine that the reason for this is that Caldari are craven cowards and will flee at the merest hint of things turning bad. Gallente on the other hand will stay and fight to defend their interests, slaughtering their enemies until they themselves fall in a blaze of glory. Because after all, it's better to burn out than fade away. Taxman IX: Risky Venture
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.26 00:17:00 - [38] Edited by: Lady Skank on 26/11/2010 00:22:03 Originally by: iyammarrok Originally by: Lady Skank iyammarrok the statistics I quoted purely concern combat nothing else whereas the report in question SPECIFICALLY states 'the data used for this analysis contains ALL SHIP KILLS throughout the [3 month period before this report was published]' now... ALL. SHIP. KILLS.... how is that not simple enough to understand?? i would like to ask how, all ship kills, which as i previously stated would contain mining vessels, haulers, freighters, capsules, shuttles, and all manner of other non-combat vessels, means only combat kills... let us define a combat kill.... that is when both sides are actively combat ready, and both participate in the combat. being shot AT does not count as active participation in a combat... in fact, if such a thing as passive combat existed, that would likely be it's definition. you seem to think that for it to count as a combat kill, only one side must be directly seeking combat. i have perused the document more than once, and unlike you, did more than skim read and take from that the information i wanted. if any others have not yet read the 'CONCORD' released document, then HERE it is. Remember the report lists the rankings of destroyed ship classes and industrial ships are a negligible fraction of all destroyed ships, therefore its easy to conclude that industrial ships have very little influence over the statistics because most of the common kills are combat capable vessels. Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Originally by: Lady Skank I tip my hat sir, someone was finally able to present an argument based on fact rather than opinion. Still you cherry picked only part of the picture. while the Gallente kill proportion is slightly more favourable than it initially appears what about the losses? my conclusion still stands, kills are only one measure of a pilots combat effectiveness and the proportion of losses is far greater for the Gallente. Well I didn't want to speak ill of anyone, but sure we can address losses. Caldari die a mere 2% more in proportion to their population, while the Gallente die an amazing of 25% more than their population. Using "Lady Spank Logic"(tm) one can immediately determine that the reason for this is that Caldari are craven cowards and will flee at the merest hint of things turning bad. Gallente on the other hand will stay and fight to defend their interests, slaughtering their enemies until they themselves fall in a blaze of glory. Because after all, it's better to burn out than fade away. As wise people have said before the point of war is not to die gloriously for the state, its to make the other bastard die for his.
iyammarrok	Posted - 2010.11.26 01:06:00 - [39] Edited by: iyammarrok on 26/11/2010 01:14:04 gods woman. have you even read the text in the report? or do you insist on looking at the numbers and making up the context to suit your own agenda. the list of ships lost, (the drake being more than 3000 higher than any other one btw) is for one month only. yet the earlier section of the report, the one you claim to have based your 'findings' on, is for 3 months. are you truly using 2 totally separate pieces of data, and saying that they correlate into anything like your claims? how can you claim any credibility? you are obviously being very picky about what parts of the data you pick your 'statistics' from, and are ignoring anything that would point to, lets call them irregularities shall we. before capsuleer training, did you perhaps have a job as a statistician? you seem to be trying to make the numbers lie, so it seems a valid question. as i have said before, i am sure you could request from concord, or a simillar group, the statistics from all militia activity, this would likely give you a much better understanding of each race's pilot skills. as has been pointed out before, ad nauseum, the 'killing blow' statistics are for the most part, meaningless. and most combats, unlike most militia activity, are not combats with one race fighting another, your findings are therefore flawed, if not utterly farcical. for anyone who is interested the report in full, can be read on a link i made in an earlier post. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- there is one other way i could point this out. recently i was involved in the defence of a planet against sansha aggressors. during the battle, I, along with the other brave defenders, took down the carrier piloted by Slave Endoma01. now, the pilot who got the 'kill' did less than 1% of the damage to the carrier, a CONCORD task force, responding to sansha aggression, did more than 95% of the damage. by your rules, the amarrian who got the last shot in, got the kill. by anyone else's rules, CONCORD got that kill. dealing 95% damage to the vessel in less than 8 seconds. your data is flawed, if not false. sorry, but that is how it is. get over it
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.26 03:44:00 - [40] iyammarrok its you that needs to get over it, your spin is understandable of course being Gallente yourself.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2010.11.26 04:13:00 - [41] Originally by: Lady Skank As wise people have said before the point of war is not to die gloriously for the state, its to make the other bastard die for his. Only because Patton didn't respawn in a clone chamber. If he did, I'm sure he'd have a different opinion. And it's questionable whether or not Patton qualifies as "wise". He was borderline insane, believed he was the reincarnation of great conquerors, and liked to slap around cripples. So forgive me if I take his words with a grain of salt and instead rely on the statistical proof you so kindly provided that Gallente are just plain awesome at combat. Taxman IX: Risky Venture
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.26 09:56:00 - [42] Oh we are bringing myths into this now? the original source of that quote is unknown but its used a fair amount but I do not for one second believe it came from a mythical man from a mythical empire who fought a mythical war in a place that probably does not even exist. You seemed quite sensible until the Earth origin rubbish.
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2010.11.26 11:43:00 - [43] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Originally by: Lady Skank As wise people have said before the point of war is not to die gloriously for the state, its to make the other bastard die for his. Only because Patton didn't respawn in a clone chamber. If he did, I'm sure he'd have a different opinion. And it's questionable whether or not Patton qualifies as "wise". He was borderline insane, believed he was the reincarnation of great conquerors, and liked to slap around cripples. So forgive me if I take his words with a grain of salt and instead rely on the statistical proof you so kindly provided that Gallente are just plain awesome at combat. While it is a stretch to claim as the OP does that the data shows the superiority of the Caldari pilots, it clearly does not support your claim about Gallente pilots. Origins of the quote AND pod technology aside, it still is the point of war NOT to die gloriously for country, but to make the other poor dumb basterd die for his.
Sylux Raynes Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.11.26 13:23:00 - [44] For the record, I am a Jin-Mei loyal to the Federation. With that out of the way, the statistical report indicated during this thread (and yes, I've read it) presented itself in a non-biased, strictly informative way open to the dissection and interpretation of its readers. Which is the nature of good fact reporting. It clearly indicates that Caldari score the killing blow frequently and Gallente tend to lose more ships than they score killing blows on. There's no disputing that. However, what it does not say is that this information somehow proves Caldari pilots are superior to Gallente pilots or that Gallente pilots are somehow inferior to any other. As I'm sure you are well aware, there are a great number of variables and situational contexts involved in combat that simply cannot be accurately portrayed in a single statistical report. I'm sorry if that dampens your argument, it's simple fact. When factual information is repackaged and portrayed in a biased light, it ceases to be fact and becomes propaganda. Propaganda is the tool of media bias. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't propaganda and media bias two of the things the Caldari use to justify their hatred of the Gallente? Something to think about. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "We are not measured by what we have done but by what we have overcome." ~Sylux Raynes
iyammarrok	Posted - 2010.11.26 22:51:00 - [45] thankyou Sylux. spin is an interesting way of putting what i am saying. let me see... * Selectively presenting facts and quotes that support one's position (cherry picking) * Non-denial denial * Phrasing in a way that assumes unproven truths * Euphemisms to disguise or promote one's agenda * "Burying bad news": announcing one popular thing at the same time as several unpopular things, hoping that the media will focus on the popular one. these are the definitions of spin i could find, within the context you use the word. now, all i have done is point out the mistakes you have made in your attempt to use spin yourself. while this could also be termed as spin, there is one major factor in my favour here. I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED SUPERIORITY. you have. you choose to ignore that the data you use is so wholly out of context, and even uses different timeframes in different sections. not only myself, but also other gallenteans, matari, amarrians and even your fellow caldarians, have pointed out the flaws in your claims, yet still you cling to them, like driftwood in a turbulent storm. your dreams are spilling over into your waking hours. i am sure the state has specialised doctors, or heavy sedatives, that can help you with this. good luck, and good wishes for a speedy recovery.
Jesus Rambo Minmatar Gun Metal Grace SpaceMonkey's Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.27 10:50:00 - [46] All you need to do is look at the design of the Dominix to see how inferior Gallente really are...
Marrano Cardosa Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2010.11.28 21:02:00 - [47] Originally by: iyammarrok Edited by: iyammarrok on 26/11/2010 23:08:36 thankyou Sylux. spin is an interesting way of putting what i am saying. let me see... Well, I would describe it more as bad logic. The FACTS, which you keep denying have any meaning are Caldari pilots accounted for 35.8% of all pod pilots and accounted for 38.3% of all recorded final blows but for only 36.5% of all recorded losses. Gallente pilots make up 20.5% of all pod pilots and accounted for 22.8% or all recorded final blows but for 25.7% of all recorded losses. Only Caldari pilots account for a larger share of final blows than for ship losses. The fact is that by the measure presented in the Concord report, Caldari pilots ARE superior. You, iyammarrok, have presented no facts to support your assertion that Caldari pilots are not superior. Instead you have displayed poor math and logic skills in claiming that these numbers do not show such a thing. So, sir, instead of repeating bad math and logical fallacies, why not present some facts to support your assertion that Caldari pilots are not superor?
iyammarrok	Posted - 2010.11.29 09:02:00 - [48] Edited by: iyammarrok on 29/11/2010 09:05:00 i have at no point said that the numbers you have stated are wrong. merely that the final shot fired in an engagement CANNOT, for reasons i along with other pilots from many outher races including the caldari, have stated ad nauseum here, determine whether a race is it's entirety are better pilots. if there was real tangible proof, then i would wholeheartedly accept the claim, however much it may cause chagrin. each to their own i say, the caldari are a totalitarian, militaristic bunch, whereas the gallente have kicked ass economically for centuries now, we each have our own strengths. the simple fact remains, that the report in question is inconclusive. if you are too narrow minded to see that, there is nothing i can say.
Striker4ever	Posted - 2010.11.30 13:56:00 - [49] since when has stats ever been a true definite way to distinguish something??
X Gallentius Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.11.30 22:16:00 - [50] Edited by: X Gallentius on 30/11/2010 22:17:02 We Federation pilots, however, have proven to be superior in combat to pilots siding with the State. http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=188 And, your numbers tell a different story as well. Proportionally speaking, more Gallente pilots kill (1.11 versus 1.07 %kill/%pilot ratio), and are killed (1.25 versus 1.02 %death/%pilot) for whatever cause than Caldari pilots.

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.