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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 11:41:00 -
[1]
CCP Greyscale reports that learning skills will go away. This change to learning mechanics is something that will affect every player so we encourage you to read more about it in his latest blog.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 12:16:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Grendelfreak Sorry if you already said this, but if we have multiple chars on an account do each char get the appropriate skillpoints or will it all go onto the highest SP char?
Yes, it is per character so any characters who have learning skills trained will have the pool of skill points to reallocate.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Hammer
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Posted - 2010.11.25 12:30:00 -
[3]
I saw a few questions about implants. Attribute boosting implants are not changing. All that is changing is listed in the blog.
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CCP Stillman
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Posted - 2010.11.25 12:52:00 -
[4]
Originally by: madBadger So I have a neural remap available now, if I use it does this mean that after the learning skills removed that it will be pointless? Will remaps be available after the learning skills are removed in December?
Originally by: Rian O'Shea This change does not in any way affect our attribute remap, does it?
Just to make clear, the only thing that's gonna change is what is specified in the dev blog.
We're not touching the attribute remap feature beyond the fact we're improving the UI of it a great deal.
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CCP Stillman
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Posted - 2010.11.25 12:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tereliss Verr
Does this mean then that learning implants are still valid?
P.S. Awesome idea btw, we need more people in this game, but I hope the lag wont get worse
I'll refer to CCP Hammer's post:
Originally by: CCP Hammer I saw a few questions about implants. Attribute boosting implants are not changing. All that is changing is listed in the blog.
So yes, nothing is changing with implants nor the cerebral booster that comes with the new EVE box.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2010.11.25 13:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Superform Edited by: Superform on 25/11/2010 12:41:19 graph one is not working, the skills needed dont jump.. but the line does.. please explain
edit.. i'll explain a bit more, the number of skill points to fly a drake well or good should be a constant.. in the 3rd line it isnt..
The third line in the first graph has ~500k SP in learning trained up front, which don't help you fly a Drake in the slightest. (Which is why we're removing them.)
Originally by: Carniflex I have seen it asked few times, but no answer so far. What about those with base charisma 3 currently. Will all characters be converted into 20/20/20/20/19 or will we keep current base attributes and just get +12 added to each one we currently have ?
We're just adding 12 to all, so your base charisma will bump up to 15.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2010.11.25 13:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Xodarapmis I've only been playing for 3 weeks. Based on my own judgement, I decided to concentrate on developing learning skills first.
I'm happy that the SP I spent will be refunded because it represents 988K out of 1.4M I've spent so far.
What I am not happy about, is that I've spent 9.2M ISK on these skills and it appears I won't be reimbursed for them. For characters that have played a while, this probably doesn't seem like much. But for me it represents about 75-85% of all the ISK I've made to this date.
I feel like I've wasted 3 weeks worth of missions with nothing much to show for it. My initial time that came with the game is almost up and I'm now reconsidering whether to subscribe.
I realise that you don't want to inject 1.6? 16? Trillion ISK into the economy and that it is difficult to draw a line if you reimburse some but not others. But for those of us where it represents such an enormous percentage of earnings to date, I would ask you to consider an equitible solution.
Many thanks. SimParadox
We did anticipate that there'd be a small group of people who'd be in this position and have this reaction. We'd liked to have made this change more intuitively beneficial for people in your position, but it's one of the things that we just didn't have time for.
I say "intuitively beneficial", because on my math at least you're still better off after the change than before it, in terms of just your own progression and wealth. Before the change you shelled out 9.2M ISK and expected to be getting what, 28-33 attribute points out of that in exchange for a month or so's training. After the change in your position, you've shelled out 9.2M ISK, you're getting 60 attribute points and your net training investment in them is zero. By Jan 1st you'll be in a much better position with the change than without the change.
On the flipside, I'm guessing you feel somewhat cheated out of the money, because if you'd known this earlier, you would have the same advantages in a month's time without having spent the money for it. That does kinda suck, and we're sorry that's happened to a few people.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2010.11.25 13:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: thatbloke Something I haven't seen asked yet: is there some limit (time, or otherwise) on when these refunded SPs have to be used by? I'm thinking here in terms of inactive accounts - i have a friend with about 3mil SP in learning whose account is currently inactive, will he need to activate his account to get this benefit and will there be any kind of time limit on having to redeem the points we are refunded?
As per the reimbursement EVElopedia article linked from the blog, "Please note: Free skill points do not expire."
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 13:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: thatbloke Something I haven't seen asked yet: is there some limit (time, or otherwise) on when these refunded SPs have to be used by? I'm thinking here in terms of inactive accounts - i have a friend with about 3mil SP in learning whose account is currently inactive, will he need to activate his account to get this benefit and will there be any kind of time limit on having to redeem the points we are refunded?
No, there is no time limit.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 13:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: KurnKuku Please please don't let the CSM whinge you into reversing this great idea.
We discussed this change in depth with the CSM and they provided us with some fantastic feedback. As you can see from page one, a lot of CSM members are happy to see this change take place
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 13:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mikokoel Will the SP of partially learned Learning Skills also be refunded? I know partially learning isn't any useful, but I just want to know...
As far as I am aware, all skill points in the learning group will be reimbursed for you to spend elsewhere. This applies to fully trained and partially trained skills.
I will double check this and update you if I am wrong.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Stillman
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Posted - 2010.11.25 14:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mikokoel Will the SP of partially learned Learning Skills also be refunded? I know partially learning isn't any useful, but I just want to know...
Absolutely. Partially trained skills will be reimbursed in full, including the partially trained SP.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2010.11.25 14:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Mikokoel Will the SP of partially learned Learning Skills also be refunded? I know partially learning isn't any useful, but I just want to know...
As far as I am aware, all skill points in the learning group will be reimbursed for you to spend elsewhere. This applies to fully trained and partially trained skills.
I will double check this and update you if I am wrong.
Confirming this. This is what "including all the fiddly edge cases" in the blog means. Trained skills, partially trained skills, skills in training, skills halfway to level 1 etc should all be covered.
Originally by: Breaker77 Just to clarify. The SP reimbursement will happen for inactive accounts as well and the SP will still be there if the account is reactivated in the future?
Yup.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2010.11.25 14:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: CCP Greyscale On the flipside, I'm guessing you feel somewhat cheated out of the money, because if you'd known this earlier, you would have the same advantages in a month's time without having spent the money for it. That does kinda suck, and we're sorry that's happened to a few people.
On the basis that the change is being made to encourage new players then I think you could come up with something a bit more positive than that.
When I restarted Eve (played 2003-2005) it still took me 3 weeks of missioning to raise the required amount for all advanced implants while buying ships etc. This was before tutorial/epic arc stuff but even so I was a returning player who knew most of the basics.
The people that you're "sorry that's happened to" are the people least well equipped to cope in isk terms. They are also your potential future subscribers.
Go think again about this and come up with a plan to make these "few people" happy. Its a one-off and I'm sure you can identify accounts that aren't buddied/power-of-two etc.
Really you need to do this.
Again, I take the point that the ISK is most significant to newer players, but if they've already spent the money then they're already coping. It would be better for them to get it back, sure, but they're not in a worse position after the change. That's where we're coming from here - nobody is worse off in absolute terms.
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 14:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mukuro Gravedigger Since I will have a chunk of skill points to distribute, will I be able to choose the amount of skill points per skill or will it automatically fulfill the skill to the next level? As an example, I need two million skill points to reach the next level. Can I take one million from my pool to set into that skill or will it automatically take two million? I would like to evenly spread the points in the amounts of my choosing instead of having them get dumped into chunks in a limited number of skills.
Thanks in advance.
You can choose how many skill points you want to apply to a given skill.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2010.11.25 14:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Again, I take the point that the ISK is most significant to newer players, but if they've already spent the money then they're already coping. It would be better for them to get it back, sure, but they're not in a worse position after the change. That's where we're coming from here - nobody is worse off in absolute terms.
Yes I recognise that they are better off in the long term.
That's not what motivates NEW players though and if they've just spent the equivalent of a couple of fitted cruisers on adv learning then they're not going to be happy bunnies.
Its a small group, why not just deal with it in a newbie-friendly way? For example your beancounters could run a script which removes multiple accounts with the same CC registered to it from the process with no problems at all. Then run a script checking on buddy subbies/power-of-two and remove them. Run script on account age under 2 months - beancounters check will do that. Credit everyone remaining with 25mill. Job done. Obviously active subs only.
See I still just about remember what its like to start this game. You spend the 25mill on adv learning in the expectation that it pays you back over the year in reduced training time. While you do that you struggle to pay for anything else.
You're really sort of slapping the newbies that had read up and learned with this one but meh its your revenue stream
Ultimately, we didn't do anything like this because we were on a tight schedule and we determined that it added more risk than benefit. That's what it came down to on a lot of these edge decisions.
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Mag's Edited by: Mag''s on 25/11/2010 14:20:27
Can someone from CCP confirm that this proposal, which ups the re-mappable attributes from 15 to 16, is indeed the one you will implement.
Meaning that the max training speed will be 2760 with +5 imps.
It was covered straight in dev blog. Go back re-read it.
I did read it, it doesn't answer my question.
To be completely clear on this and other points, our intent is to implement exactly what is specified in the blog. No more and no less. If it's not explicitly mentioned in the blog, it's not happening.
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 14:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lillith Starfire
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: Mukuro Gravedigger Since I will have a chunk of skill points to distribute, will I be able to choose the amount of skill points per skill or will it automatically fulfill the skill to the next level? As an example, I need two million skill points to reach the next level. Can I take one million from my pool to set into that skill or will it automatically take two million? I would like to evenly spread the points in the amounts of my choosing instead of having them get dumped into chunks in a limited number of skills.
Thanks in advance.
You can choose how many skill points you want to apply to a given skill.
Will this be on a per character basis or a pool you can spread around the account? Reason I ask is if you have 3 chars and trained learning skills on all 3 then it is essentially time used up training (now) unnecessary skills x 3. If you have one main and two alts the effect is you have lost time training on the main twice (from the alts)
A per character basis.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 14:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Thorleifer so are we getting a remap or not? it is a simple question, I think it is only fair to give us a free remap.
There will be no free remap as remaps are not being changed.
As CCP Greyscale has already said, if it is not in the blog it is not happening.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 14:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Damien Smith Hi, I've got a quick couple of questions.
If you have an alt on the same account as your main who has no use for their skillpoint pool, can you petition for those SP to be moved to your main char?
Also, when this change goes live will you be resetting the remap timer so people can adjust their long term training goals to take into account these changes?
The skill points are reimbursed on a per character basis and they will not be transferred between accounts or characters.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sed Man ccp are never gona read all this...
We are still reading.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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CCP TomB
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Posted - 2010.11.26 10:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sed Man ccp are never gona read all this...
liar
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CCP Prism X
Gallente C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.30 08:52:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale This is what "including all the fiddly edge cases" in the blog means. Trained skills, partially trained skills, skills in training, skills halfway to level 1 etc should all be covered.
~ CCP Prism X EVE Database Developer and Acting API Dude |
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CCP Prism X
Gallente C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.30 10:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ranka Mei Since you're answering questions, perhaps you'd be willing to answer this one too? :)
Geez, I actually cannot find the answer to that question. Seems like a fairly important detail to let slip.
Your skill queue will be reordered for you to ensure that people who do not log in the minute after the server comes up do not lose any training time.
In the case of a learning skill being your skill in training the next skill in queue will start with his start time registered uniformly for all altered records. That is your place in the scripts execution will not infer any advantage in training. If your skill in training is not a learning skill its start time will not be affected. If the only skill in your queue is a learning skill you'll end up with an empty queue after reimbursment.
The end time of your entire queue has to be recalculated as your attributes have changed. This will restecp your active clone implants of course. Paused queues are paused and left as such.
So to go for optimal SP gain (I guess, haven't really put much thought into this) you should set a learning skill in training with the maximal possible sp/hour for your character, ensure there's time for another skill in there (or switch before DT) so that once the learning skill is removed that skill will start training as of it's removal and then spend all your points on a skill with your worst attributes in it maximizing your sp/hour gain for the whole shebang and losing no training.
~ CCP Prism X EVE Database Developer and Acting API Dude |
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CCP Stillman
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Posted - 2010.12.01 11:24:00 -
[24]
We're soon gonna remove learning skills from Singularity. Why don't you come and check it out, and gain some extra skill points on Singularity?
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