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Reikye
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Posted - 2010.11.30 15:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Reikye on 30/11/2010 16:07:03
Edited by: Reikye on 30/11/2010 16:06:20
Edited by: Reikye on 30/11/2010 16:05:00
Noob here with a quick question on dealing with tackle on smaller ships that get in close. Ran into a Lvl2 mission with a fighter sized ship with both scramble and web that got so close that my lasers couldn't hit him & his DPS buddies just had a field day and I finally lost my Omen to death by a thousand cuts.
There are a range of possible strategies and I'm interested in what the mission runners out there prefer. I've run through most of them already but not sure what to invest learning points and isk in - particularly with my valuable mid slots - to make sure that my chances of dealing with these small close range tacklers are successful. I don't want to sacrifice my radar strength+ mid slot if I can avoid it, as target disruption/weapon disruption from a tackler is even more frustrating particularly as that can happen from long range.
High Speed - don't fit armor or rigs that slow your velocity / add ABs and a couple of overdrive low slots - consider overheating your ABs: Make sure that regardless of whether you take a couple of webs or not, you have enough speed to keep the fighters > 3000ms and get in a shot or two to take them out
Tracking Computers with tracking speed scripts in mid + tracking enhancers in low: my current strategy to deal with fast moving close tacklers - I can occasionally hit at less than 3000m but still feels like a big investment with infrequent rewards for me.
Target painters in mid: Increase the sig of the critters. Haven't tried it - don't know if in isolation a 30% increase in sig radius will make much of a difference for something that small and fast being targeted by a cruiser
Neut Burst them: Another strategy I've tried. I just don't feel that a single Neut is worth it - at least for a medium sized ship - as 120 damage every 9 seconds isn't really going to deal with the more challenging fighters as missions increase in level. Not really a fan of having more than one of them either as there doesn't appear to be that much in PvE that likes getting in that close.
Web em: If they web you, web them back and decrease their velocity/transversal etc and give you a better chance of hitting them.
So, number of potential strategies (and I'm probably missing a trick or two that the veterans out there deploy) and its difficult to dedicate the slots to have several of these options available on a single boat. What tactic do you use to deal with close range high velocity tacklers?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.30 16:06:00 -
[2]
Personally, I use drones. If the ship doesn't allow it, a web is the second best choice. Once (and if) they go through with allowing MWDs, that might be an option too ù with just an AB, it won't be enough to get good range control since NPCs still have 90% webs compared to our 60%:ers.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Haytred
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Posted - 2010.11.30 16:14:00 -
[3]
Drones are the answer. There are other options, but they all pale in comparison to sending a drone or two to specifically target the tacklers. Knowing the missions helps as well, because even without drones, you can identify the type of npc ship that will frequently do this and you can target them first, taking them out early.
It's extremely important you begin to be able to deal with tacklers in missions now, because when running a level 4 mission in a much more expensive ship, it could mean the loss of a lot more time and effort if they prevent you from escaping.
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Ulwithy Arillious
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.30 16:16:00 -
[4]
Yup, drones. A flight of T2 light drones will quickly chew through elite frigates.
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.30 16:22:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Von Kapiche on 30/11/2010 16:22:27
a) Shoot them first
b) if they're too close, +1 drones.
If I'm in my mach, too close is pretty damn close tbh. On the other hand it takes as long to kill a NPC inty with cruise as it does drones, so...
Bets off in w-space, web is more useful there.
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Nicky's Tomb
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Posted - 2010.11.30 17:29:00 -
[6]
Always primary frigates. If anyone of them webs, damps or scrams, make him primary. Cruisers sometimes damp as well, but it is usually the tackle frigs that are most dangerous.
I have an embarressing tail of losing a 130Mil Domi when I did a big level 4 with a huge second spawn. I didn't kill the frigates, but hit a trigger ship. All hell broke lose my tank started failing. I hit warp out, but due to being webbed so badly by 6 frigates all at once I basically sat there until, "The capacitor is empty.", WHOOP, WHOOOP, WHOOP <screen freeze> <screen jerk>.... pod and 1 drone left.
So. KILL THOSE DAMN FRIGATES NOW! should be what you tell your drones on arrival. And stay on top of them too or they will wander off and start fights with unagro'ed ships or sentries 100km away.
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Reikye
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Posted - 2010.11.30 18:41:00 -
[7]
Thanks for all the thoughtful suggestions. I deliberately didn't include drones as my long term target ship (the Legion) wouldn't use them (at least I wouldn't be using the less than spectacular Drone Synthesis Projector over the Liquid Crystal Magnifiers), so that leaves me without a drone bay.
Is the concensus that after drones - a web or two of your own is the next best bet (even if it is a distant second?).
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2010.11.30 19:08:00 -
[8]
Your best bet is to avoid missions with large numbers of insane tacklers like mercenary wingmen or spider drones. Most of the others can be shot easily if you get them as they're closing to range. I once lost a ship when the triggered spawn put 4-6 merc wingmen right on top of me without giving me a chance to at least get a few shots in before they closed. (Also 3 BS and a handful of cruisers; I was counting on being able to speed tank the BSes.)
I think the most common strategy is to actually have enough tank/DPS to not need to worry about being webbed/scrammed. (At least that's the Drake way of doing things.)
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DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.30 19:29:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Reikye
Thanks for all the thoughtful suggestions. I deliberately didn't include drones as my long term target ship (the Legion) wouldn't use them (at least I wouldn't be using the less than spectacular Drone Synthesis Projector over the Liquid Crystal Magnifiers), so that leaves me without a drone bay.
That's understandable if you are going through the Zealot <-> Legion route, but the rest of the useful Amarr ships all utilize drones to a certain degree; Arbitrator/Pilgrim/Curse have drones as their main DPS, Harbingers usually go with the Warrior II/Hobgoblin + EC300 combo, Apoc/Abaddon have 75 drone bandwidth enough to fit a rack of light/medium drones, and finally the Armageddon has a 125 drone bandwidth for extra gankage.
So, after you're finished training up for the Legion, I suggest at least training for T2 medium drones + ECM drones to increase the number of options you can field. I crosstrained from Gallente to Amarr with a meager 1mil SP in drone skills, and it still helped me a lot in the beginning.
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Wolfhound32
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Posted - 2010.11.30 22:35:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Wolfhound32 on 30/11/2010 22:39:49
As a Gallente, I utilize drones as my primary DPS. I generally run a Domi with no guns. Instead, I have salvagers and tractor beams in the highs with 2 large smart bombs. A Cap Booster with 800s in the mids gives some breathing room with the Cap. I don't send my drones after the frigs first rather I send them after the DPS. Web and scram NPC Frigs operate within smartbomb range and 2 SBs going off takes very little time to eliminate the frigs.
It has been quite some time since running High Sec missions. I do this in 0.0 and I can't recall if there is a problem running smartbombs in high sec.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.11.30 23:33:00 -
[11]
I read the mission guide on eve-survival.org. Then I can see expected number of tackling frigate spawns. From this number I will fit an appropriate number of warp core stabs (usually no more than 3).
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landow calrissian
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Posted - 2010.12.01 01:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
I read the mission guide on eve-survival.org. Then I can see expected number of tackling frigate spawns. From this number I will fit an appropriate number of warp core stabs (usually no more than 3).
DO NOT. I REPEAT DO NOT USE WARP CORE STABS IN MISSIONS. They give you a penalty to targeting distance and I think targeting speed. Read the description to find out the specifics. Not to mention they are a waste of low slots.
WARP CORE STABS should ONLY be used when you need to move a ship from point A to point B and you are either flying through enemy space (aka low/null sec) or during a war Deck and you have no intention of fighting back.
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Carmela Tourraine
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Posted - 2010.12.01 03:22:00 -
[13]
If you can't use 5 light drones, you're failing horribly at pve. Seriously they're your most important tool.
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Flesh Slurper
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Posted - 2010.12.01 04:21:00 -
[14]
Drones FTW
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Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.01 05:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Drones FTW
this
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.12.01 08:51:00 -
[16]
Warp core stab is also offer safety net for you in case of dc. Drones won't help much when you tackled, nosed and taking heavy dps in a blood raider mission then you disconnect. Better safe than sorry.
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Ihohea Dikatarn
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Posted - 2010.12.01 11:45:00 -
[17]
Personally it depends on the type of ship / tank your running.
When I was running L2 missions in my rupture I would use a few tactics against tacklers:
1) Drones FTW. Said before and again but getting drones L5 / tech 2 drones will make life alot easier against fast frigs. Scout drone operation can also give a range bonus so that you can deploy drones at a much larger range and hopefully deal some good damage before the frigs get close.
2) Keep your distance - with short range weapons you can try to agro frigs at a range and kite them because at max range of your weapons you have a higher chance of hitting frigs before they get too close & within web distance. This also works when frigs are with larger ships that really pile on the damage when your webbed because you can isolate the frigs away from their dps buddies and take them out before they can get close enough to pile it on.
3) Snipe - if you know a mission has some annoying frigs (again, Eve survival ftw) you can change your fitting to long range weapons and allow you to pick off the frigs before they can even get close.
4) Tank through - if your tank is good enough you can stick your drones on the frigs and concentrate on the larger ships that cause alot of the damage.
Hope that helps :D
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DarkAegix
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Posted - 2010.12.01 12:23:00 -
[18]
Got your answer yet? :D
The answer is drones!
DRONES!
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Reikye
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Posted - 2010.12.01 20:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: DarkAegix
Got your answer yet? :D
The answer is drones!
DRONES!
So.... someone mentioned drones a while back. What is that all about then?
Heh. I'll play about with EFT but its going to take a lot to convince me to specialize in drones. Don't get me wrong, with my Hulk alt I probably invested more SP into drones than any other skill area and they are great for defense, but I'm still to be convinced that dispatching my drones to intercept everything one target at a time is going to be as satisfying as a full laser volley. Effectiveness be damned :)
Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.
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Flesh Slurper
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Posted - 2010.12.02 06:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Reikye
So.... someone mentioned drones a while back. What is that all about then?
Heh. I'll play about with EFT but its going to take a lot to convince me to specialize in drones. Don't get me wrong, with my Hulk alt I probably invested more SP into drones than any other skill area and they are great for defense, but I'm still to be convinced that dispatching my drones to intercept everything one target at a time is going to be as satisfying as a full laser volley. Effectiveness be damned :)
Thanks for all the responses. Much appreciated.
You don't specialize in drones. You simply get to tech 2 light drones. This is relatively quick to train and they fit in any ship you will be using for missions, regardless of race. All race's ships (beyond some small ships) have a drone bay for this reason. They will tear up frigates, so you can use your guns on the larger targets at the same time.
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Iron Eater
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Posted - 2010.12.02 11:41:00 -
[21]
Best are Drones. If your ship cannot carry drones then use a webber. Against frigs a webber is way more effective than a targeting computer.
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Birdman Ravo
Legion of The Birds
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Posted - 2010.12.03 03:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
You don't specialize in drones. You simply get to tech 2 light drones. This is relatively quick to train and they fit in any ship you will be using for missions, regardless of race. All race's ships (beyond some small ships) have a drone bay for this reason. They will tear up frigates, so you can use your guns on the larger targets at the same time.
^ This
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T'Challa Wanakanda
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Posted - 2010.12.03 04:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Birdman Ravo
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
You don't specialize in drones. You simply get to tech 2 light drones. This is relatively quick to train and they fit in any ship you will be using for missions, regardless of race. All race's ships (beyond some small ships) have a drone bay for this reason. They will tear up frigates, so you can use your guns on the larger targets at the same time.
^ This
Also, make sure you use a full set of 5x Light drones. Medium & Heavy drones often have just as hard a time hitting frigates as your guns that aren't getting the job done.
Another technique => if the mission has structures (or asteroids if you are in a belt) get next to them. If the enemy ship collides with it while orbiting you it will often lose speed/transversal and you will be able to hit him with your guns for a bit before he speeds back up and gets back into an orbit.
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DarkAegix
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Posted - 2010.12.03 14:52:00 -
[24]
If you really want to skimp out on drones, even T1 light scouts with the Drones skill at IV will be sufficient to deal with PVE tackle. But eeeww, get your drone skills up. Drones are cool.
Why fit 3 webs, a smartbomb, 2 warp core stabs, a 200mm autocannon, a light electron blaster and 4 tracking enhancers to your ship when drones will WTFBBQPWN any frig which gets within range?
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