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Black Ops - Most disappointing achievement ever?

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Sniperdoc Caldari Eerie Industries	Posted - 2010.12.01 20:37:00 - [1] I know there's probably plenty of threads about this already, but I really felt the need to voice my opinion so that others can put me in my place or help me understand the value of the Black Ops ships. To start with, I find the name Black Ops HIGHLY misleading. Black Ops to me, being ex-USMC STA Platoon Corpsman (Medic for USMC Snipers), means sneaking past enemy lines, creating as much havoc as possible, and then disappearing into the night. This ship couldn't SNEAK if it tried, getting to an objective in a large massive blob at 33m/s is just about pointless. About the only function it can do well is open a portal for other ships to jump through to create the havoc it itself CANNOT do. So why even name it Black Ops? On a Widow the DPS is mediocre, the Scorpion does ECM better, it can't tank damage worth a damn, and a host of other issues I've been reading about. What about this ship is Elite? What makes it Black Ops... really? Is it elite in the fact that I spent a LONG time training for it only to realize it really just sucks for what I wanted to do with it? I'm no EFT Warrior, and sure, that could be my fault. But reading it's classification and the description, to me, implied that the ship itself will bypass gate camps with relative ease, can be used for some decent damage, or at least take a decent amount of damage, and then bring in the reinforcements after clearing a path. Personally, my goal was to use it for complexes. I wanted to be able to sneak past gate camps, scan down lowsec or 0.0 and if I needed it, bring in support for the harder complexes. NO WAY this boat can do that. Nothing Black Ops here... Might as well have called it "Ship that creates Jump portals and is not good for anything else". The fact that the speed bonus of 125% is only applied from CLOAKED speed is a huge let down. The way I read that bonus was, that the ship would go FASTER under cloak than it would uncloaked. THAT would have been cool. The fact that it can't use the Covert Cloak is just beyond me to begin with... and I could have accepted that shortcoming if my above assumption would have been true. But seriously... 33m/s at Black Ops I?? Seriously?? My grandmother can drive faster than that (almost ;) ). Really, I found this ship to be very disappointing. Maybe it is because I haven't done any fleet ops yet. But my difficult experiences with gate camps leads me to believe this ship would be caught quite easily at a proper gate camp. 33m/s laff So, getting to area to deploy the Jump Portal... that'd be the hard part in a lumbering block of chees... I mean metal. Does anyone else feel this way? Maybe a reclassification is warranted and then they can create a proper Black Ops ship to take its place. Like a Marauder that can Covert Cloak, has no targeting delay, and some other benefits? THAT, I would say could be a Black Ops ship. Drakes ROCK!
VaMei Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.01 20:55:00 - [2] Originally by: Sniperdoc I find the name Black Ops HIGHLY misleading. Black Ops to me... means sneaking past enemy lines, creating as much havoc as possible, and then disappearing into the night. In your example, the Black Ops BS isn't the troops creating the havoc; it's the helicopter they ride in and out on. The troops are the Stealth Bombers, Force Recons & Strategic Cruisers that go through the portal with you. That said, since local will give away your raid before that last of you is actually in system, and since there are no cynos in WH space, yeah... BO BSs pretty much suck.
DocSniper	Posted - 2010.12.01 20:58:00 - [3] Edited by: DocSniper on 01/12/2010 20:59:24 Originally by: VaMei In your example, the Black Ops BS isn't the troops creating the havoc; it's the helicopter they ride in and out on. Which would bring me to my point of "Why call it Black Ops" and/or why even bother making it a BS class ship? :) I definitely agree with your statements though.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.01 21:06:00 - [4] Originally by: Sniperdoc Black Ops to me, being ex-USMC STA Platoon Corpsman (Medic for USMC Snipers), means sneaking past enemy lines, creating as much havoc as possible, and then disappearing into the night. Black Ops to me means running around the Pentagon as Fidel Castro shooting wave after wave of the undead until they eat my brain. (Pardon the compulsive trolling, Satan/Activision told me to do it.)
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.01 21:12:00 - [5] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 01/12/2010 21:12:28 Originally by: DocSniper Originally by: VaMei In your example, the Black Ops BS isn't the troops creating the havoc; it's the helicopter they ride in and out on. Which would bring me to my point of "Why call it Black Ops" and/or why even bother making it a BS class ship? :) I definitely agree with your statements though. There is no such thing as a Black Ops soldure. A Black Operation is a Military Operation ment to be kept secret. The entire point of the vessal is to stratigically place your forces behind enamy lines to carry out a Black Operation. So if you are naming ship classes after roles then there would be no Black Ops Ships. So they named it after the Operations they facilatate. -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.12.01 21:23:00 - [6] Edited by: Mag''s on 01/12/2010 21:25:30 Originally by: Alara IonStorm So they named it after the Operations they facilatate. Highlighted the truth hidden in your post. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Sniperdoc Caldari Eerie Industries	Posted - 2010.12.01 21:24:00 - [7] Sure I get that... but try to get your lumbering hulk of metal going at little bit greater than >33m/s past a proper Gate camp. I don't see it happening. They shouldn't have called the ship itself Black Ops. Usually only Elite soldiers perform Black Operations. Things happening behind enemy lines... etc. This ship is NOT elite. Jump Ship.... maybe that'd work better. Drakes ROCK!
Joe Starbreaker M. Corp	Posted - 2010.12.01 21:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Sniperdoc To start with, I find the name Black Ops HIGHLY misleading. Wait until you find out what they call a "Logistics" ship in this game! ...
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.01 21:31:00 - [9] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 01/12/2010 21:31:48 Originally by: Mag's Highlighted the truth hidden in your post. No one is denying that... Still truth in the concept even if it is only a good on paper concept. -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Dav Varan	Posted - 2010.12.01 21:35:00 - [10] One use may be to drop in behind enemy lines when a fleet fight is occuring and set up a mini camp to stop reinforcments arriving. Covert ops / recon to supply the covert cyno. Jump in 3 or 4 sytems behind the battle on a route likelly to be taken by your enemies players. Drop a bubble and do a gate camp. Black ops have no lock penalty from decloak so its easier to pick your targets and avoid stuff your squad cant handle. Widow can move quite quickly ( for a bs ) when cloaked once you have trained the black ops skill up a few lvl ( recommend 4 at least ) although BO cant warp cloaked , with lvl4 BO you can align cloaked and decloak/instawarp to bm If the op attracts to much attention then you can extract yourself by jumping out to another location. no way for the enemy to track your movements. Widow can put up a substantial tank if you forgo ecm. Widow 1. Em hard Invuln hard sensor booster. xl booster injector ab/mwd scram web 5 x torps cloak neut dcu and 3 lows to fit from ( pdu / bcu / other ) This is your heavy tackler sits near the bubble. Widow 2. 5 x cruise or javelin torps. cloak lots of ecm in mids ecm boosters in lows. This is your jammer stays at 40-50km and provides jamming support so your tackler can GTFO if needed. You can then add any number of other cloak ships such as bombers / recons by fitting a jump portal to the ecm widow.
ShahFluffers Gallente Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.12.01 21:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Sniperdoc Sure I get that... but try to get your lumbering hulk of metal going at little bit greater than >33m/s past a proper Gate camp. I don't see it happening. How to get past a gatecamp with a Black-ops ship: 1. A scout ship (Force Recon or Stealth Bomber) scouts ahead and gets past the gatecamps it encounters. 2. At the 'target' system the scout flies to a 'safe' location and pops a Covert Cyno (which cannot be seen in system and lasts for about 15(?) seconds). 3. The Black ops ship opens it's jump portal and all the other ships (if any) around it jump to the location of the Covert Cyno. 4. The scout pops the cyno one more time and the Black-ops ship itself jumps. Congratulations. You have now bypassed a gatecamp with minimal effort. For extra 'range' be sure to bring along a Blockade Runner (cloaky transport) or two filled with fuel. _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.12.01 22:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Sniperdoc But my difficult experiences with gate camps leads me to believe this ship would be caught quite easily at a proper gate camp. 33m/s laff So, getting to area to deploy the Jump Portal... that'd be the hard part in a lumbering block of chees... I mean metal. Yer doin' it wrong. So wrong, I am not sure if you are trolling. The Black Ops ship doesn't go to the target system to deploy the portal. The covert cyno ship does, usually a Covert Ops ship. It can get past gate camps easily. When there, it activates the cyno and the Black Ops ship creates the portal to it. After the ships in the company of the Black Ops have jumped through, the Black Ops ship can use its own jump drive to jump to the target system.
External Factors	Posted - 2010.12.01 22:38:00 - [13] for your review, My buff idea for this ship http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1412078
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.12.01 22:48:00 - [14] In my experience, as small gang PvP player, Black Ops is pretty good at escaping gate camps - not because of the cyno jumping, but because of the cloak speed bonus. It allows you to pick your fights a little more. However, once you engage, once you are locked and scrambled, it all comes down to ship defense, offense, EW, and speed. Those qualities of Black Ops are not very impressive, so it performs just about at same level as t1 equivalent - only a little weaker. There is small advantage to using the ship for bumping, at least Sin and Panther cause they get maneuverability bonuses, on top of the cloak speed bonus with MWD burst. Ability to escape gate camps is about the only significant advantage of this ship. (aside from cyno crap) In my opinion, Black Ops should be more about hit power, or at least have superb tackling ability - while defense should be just under t1 equivalent. Cause we got tons of super tanks already. For some reason CCP likes adding tanks much more than damage dealers.
ClickMy Lunt	Posted - 2010.12.01 22:51:00 - [15] I have nothing to add cept for a CSB. Last BLOP i was on, the scout found a target, golem rattin, lights the cyno, BLOP pilot says ok everyone ready here we go.... poof, the BLOP ship goes away and we are all sitting there, going wth? BLOP pilot speaks up, oops wrong button i jumped instead of opening the portal.... good times ;)
DocSniper	Posted - 2010.12.01 23:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Sniperdoc But my difficult experiences with gate camps leads me to believe this ship would be caught quite easily at a proper gate camp. 33m/s laff So, getting to area to deploy the Jump Portal... that'd be the hard part in a lumbering block of chees... I mean metal. Yer doin' it wrong. So wrong, I am not sure if you are trolling. The Black Ops ship doesn't go to the target system to deploy the portal. The covert cyno ship does, usually a Covert Ops ship. It can get past gate camps easily. When there, it activates the cyno and the Black Ops ship creates the portal to it. After the ships in the company of the Black Ops have jumped through, the Black Ops ship can use its own jump drive to jump to the target system. Definitely not trolling. Maybe I just don't understand the concept of how it all works (never performed an actual jump). But you did clarify some, and I appreciate it. So you don't really use the Black Ops ship to scout the system that you intend to jump to? I think I understand. This then again reiterates my point about this ship's name... Just because it opens a jump portal and can then jump in afterwards doesn't qualify to be called a Black Ops ship. The Widow itself isn't going behind enemy lines to plant mayhem... it's the Covert Ops ship that does all that, in which case the name is applicable for that ship. Now that I understand the purpose more clearly, I can see how the name Black Ops for this class of ship is definitely misleading. Someone also mentioned the speed of the ship getting better with higher levels. What that would imply, is that I have to train Black Ops to level IV or V to see any substantial speed increase. If I have Black Ops at V and started with a 27m/s cloaked speed, I'd be at 175m/s. Guess that's not too shabby then... :D I still vote for a name change though. It really is just a jump ship... not much Black Ops about it. Especially since it isn't designed to do much of the fighting.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2010.12.01 23:30:00 - [17] OP) EX? You mean Former I hope. =============================== \|\| Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. \|\| ===============================
Sniperdoc Caldari Eerie Industries	Posted - 2010.12.01 23:33:00 - [18] Lol... yes. I had an honorable discharge. Drakes ROCK!
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2010.12.01 23:40:00 - [19] Widow can do a 76k buffer with 2 multispec jammer and a painter. can push out 700 dps only with missiles [add drones or ecm drones] this is all t2 no heat no implants and with jump portal. 207 is the base cloaked speed at BO lvl 5. what people should complain about is the jump range and fuel consumption and the cloak scan resolution penalty [If I would have to pick I would like to have the penalty removed more] You really want more in a ship that can jump around and strike wherever it wants to and bridge a covert t3's t2's and small gangs of bombers ? If skilled for and used properly these things are devastating combine with the redeemers :D and as most important note fit the whole gang to work as a team. They have problems but they are effective Well at least the caldari and amarr ones can not say about the other 2 since never used them.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2010.12.02 00:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Sniperdoc Lol... yes. I had an honorable discharge. you can understand my discomfort with your language. If it were Ex, I'd be surprised you mention it :) Fly sane. Do you really care what trolls say? If yes, please log off and go outside, it helps.
Ahz	Posted - 2010.12.02 00:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Dors Venabily What people should complain about is the jump range and fuel consumption and the cloak scan resolution penalty... And the resists... Also the fuel consumption for both the Black Ops cyno jumps as well as the covert ops portal. Both consumption rates are too high.
Flesh Slurper	Posted - 2010.12.02 00:29:00 - [22] The black ops is not designed to be a great combat ship itself, because it's best used in groups. The "Elite" factor in the black ops is that it enables stealth gangs to hot drop juicy targets at will and **** them.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.12.02 00:33:00 - [23] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 02/12/2010 00:35:21 Originally by: DocSniper What that would imply, is that I have to train Black Ops to level IV or V to see any substantial speed increase. If I have Black Ops at V and started with a 27m/s cloaked speed, I'd be at 175m/s. Guess that's not too shabby then... :D No, it's not shabby, especially when you use it to accelerate to warp speed while cloaked. At Black Ops V, the ship can align to warp under cloak in 4 seconds. You use the MWD+cloak trick, only you don't have to pulse the MWD (so you don't have to wait 10 seconds for the MWD cycle to finish). The cloaked velocity bonus allows you to decloak and warp off at about 50% cloaked velocity - which becomes > 75% uncloaked velocity the moment you decloak, followed by your instawarp. It just takes 4 seconds to get to 50% cloaked max velocity. Obviously, bubble camps are a problem. But you can jump around those.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.12.02 00:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Sniperdoc Personally, my goal was to use it for complexes. Another fly in the ointment: you cannot light any kind of cyno inside a deadspace complex.
Perfection Tau Cuties Only.	Posted - 2010.12.02 07:07:00 - [25] Edited by: Perfection Tau on 02/12/2010 07:09:13 Black Ops is great but useless solo and not sneaky in the same sense other cloaky ships are. But believe me gang of them + recons can do very dirty things. P.S. For less bright folks: They can gtfo from system with every gate camped and evac their gang. No other subcap ship can do that.
Dorian Wylde	Posted - 2010.12.02 09:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Sniperdoc Sure I get that... but try to get your lumbering hulk of metal going at little bit greater than >33m/s past a proper Gate camp. I don't see it happening. They shouldn't have called the ship itself Black Ops. Usually only Elite soldiers perform Black Operations. Things happening behind enemy lines... etc. This ship is NOT elite. Jump Ship.... maybe that'd work better. The whole point of the ship is not to use gates, and get bombers in system PAST the gate camp.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.02 09:30:00 - [27] Quote: About the only function it can do well is open a portal for other ships to jump through And that is the entire point of the ship, and that is a very strong point. The only possible reasonable change would be increasing its briding capabilities a bit and maybe a very slight boost to their tank. But the only other ship that can bridge costs 40B. Yes it can bridge more ship types, but black ops can bridge to cyno jammed systems. I used to be in favour of boosting its bridging capabilities by giving it more range, but in the end that only makes eve smaller yet again.
Millsy1	Posted - 2010.12.02 09:45:00 - [28] Edited by: Millsy1 on 02/12/2010 09:49:14 Originally by: Sniperdoc The fact that the speed bonus of 125% is only applied from CLOAKED speed is a huge let down. The way I read that bonus was, that the ship would go FASTER under cloak than it would uncloaked. THAT would have been cool. The fact that it can't use the Covert Cloak is just beyond me to begin with... and I could have accepted that shortcoming if my above assumption would have been true. But seriously... 33m/s at Black Ops I?? Seriously?? My grandmother can drive faster than that (almost ;) ). Really, I found this ship to be very disappointing. Maybe it is because I haven't done any fleet ops yet. But my difficult experiences with gate camps leads me to believe this ship would be caught quite easily at a proper gate camp. 33m/s laff So, getting to area to deploy the Jump Portal... that'd be the hard part in a lumbering block of chees... I mean metal. Does anyone else feel this way? Maybe a reclassification is warranted and then they can create a proper Black Ops ship to take its place. Like a Marauder that can Covert Cloak, has no targeting delay, and some other benefits? THAT, I would say could be a Black Ops ship. Quite possibly. you don't understand the concept? My panther, at level 5, goes 392m/s cloaked, without any speed mods. Put on some speed mods and a MWD, it will go 2000+ m/s UN-cloaked. Pulse the MWD and cloak, it will go 3500m/s cloaked Linkage If you can't get out of a gatecamp at 3500m/s cloaked, well. I just can't help you. Now think of the fact that you can have 600-1000 DPS (Redeemer, or Panther with different fit) sit nice a safe, 12+ jumps away, while a solo arazu tackles something very nice and tasty for you. Then, without waiting for a stupid 80au warp, put you right on target. whats not to love. *edit. and What the bleep are you flying ANY ship with only level 1 trained. holy carp!
achoura	Posted - 2010.12.02 10:41:00 - [29] They do work very well as high damage platforms, as Stain residents will testify The complaint is they don't work, and never have. It's closing on what, 2 years? (so long I can't remember) despite ccp being able to push out, tested, ship changes in less than 3 when they want to. The cpu is crap, jump range is crap, but most the fuel use is so stupidly high. It's cost more fuel to bridge a ship with one of them than a tita. In fact it cost just under 10 times what it cost to jump a falcon than it does my ship. You could jump 10 windows for the cost of bridging 1 recon. *The EVE servers and their patches* [b]"the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells b
Sniperdoc Caldari Eerie Industries	Posted - 2010.12.02 14:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Millsy1 Now think of the fact that you can have 600-1000 DPS (Redeemer, or Panther with different fit) sit nice a safe, 12+ jumps away, while a solo arazu tackles something very nice and tasty for you. Then, without waiting for a stupid 80au warp, put you right on target. whats not to love. *edit. and What the bleep are you flying ANY ship with only level 1 trained. holy carp! Well, that's because I had just attained the skill. Guess that's what I was most furious about since it was/is just so underwhelming. Now that I've trained it up some and see some of the uses, I guess it's not entirely bad... but I still don't think it should be called a Black Ops ship. I still think it's just a Jump Ship. Drakes ROCK!

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