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Increasing Research/Manufacturing Job Cap?

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Zeuth Proxy Caldari Nomadic Asylum	Posted - 2010.12.02 19:27:00 - [1] Just curious on what S&I opinions are on this. It seems that having 11(10 realistically) available jobs per pilot seems abit low. With the diversity of things that can be built/researched having a 11 slot max is very limiting. In the end having that low max only causes people to buy/train copy alts or building alts to attain this. Would increasing the cap to say 20-30 be all that bad? What are your thoughts?
Dorian 'Gray Gallente Ramdon Industries corporation	Posted - 2010.12.02 19:53:00 - [2] Well if you look at it logically these alt's bring in RL $$$ for CCP so no. I don't mind paying extra for the extra alt as I pay with ISK anyway
Dasola Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.02 19:57:00 - [3] Well you have 3 slots for characters in your account, so 33 slots not enought for you? Or 30 to be realistic? Dosent take that long to train them.
Zeuth Proxy Caldari Nomadic Asylum	Posted - 2010.12.02 20:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Dasola Well you have 3 slots for characters in your account, so 33 slots not enought for you? Or 30 to be realistic? Dosent take that long to train them. Thats not the reason for it. Personally I run 4 pilots which give 40 slots. The reason for the discussion is it seems redundant to have such a low cap in which results in the use of alts. Its more the annoyance of having to switch chars/accounts all the time to set up jobs.
Jay Wareth	Posted - 2010.12.02 20:10:00 - [5] Originally by: Zeuth Proxy The reason for the discussion is it seems redundant to have such a low cap in which results in the use of alts. Its more the annoyance of having to switch chars/accounts all the time to set up jobs. Go re-read the first sentence in Dorian's post.
Zeuth Proxy Caldari Nomadic Asylum	Posted - 2010.12.02 20:19:00 - [6] Originally by: Jay Wareth Go re-read the first sentence in Dorian's post. Go re-read the first sentence in Dasola's post.
Greg Huff	Posted - 2010.12.02 20:27:00 - [7] Edited by: Greg Huff on 02/12/2010 20:28:48 Anybody know what the average wait time for an NPC Station Research Slot is right now? (I have no idea) Doubling the number of slots each toon can use would increase the wait time by at least 150% (my conservative guess). Of course, if you're researching in a POS this means nothing to you... but it would cause similar job load increases on corp slots. Even super-humans have their limitations. I would stick with the current limits - 10/11 manufacturing AND 10/11 research. Edit: Just because you double/triple the number of slots each character can use, doesn't mean people will reduce the number of characters they play.
rain9441 Big Head Want Dolly	Posted - 2010.12.02 20:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Greg Huff Anybody know what the average wait time for an NPC Station Research Slot is right now? (I have no idea) Doubling the number of slots each toon can use would increase the wait time by at least 150% (my conservative guess). Who cares? Those slots are all being used by useless research anyway, I don't care how much more useless research is done in high sec.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.12.02 22:38:00 - [9] Originally by: Zeuth Proxy Personally I run 4 pilots which give 40 slots. Wow, small timer I see. When you get 4 accounts all doing it, then come back and complain.
Zeuth Proxy Caldari Nomadic Asylum	Posted - 2010.12.03 12:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Zeuth Proxy on 03/12/2010 12:11:06 Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Zeuth Proxy Personally I run 4 pilots which give 40 slots. Wow, small timer I see. When you get 4 accounts all doing it, then come back and complain. Yeah well I was kind of hoping it wouldn't reach that point but its starting to lean towards that. Also just to clarify the intent of this thread was not to complain but more a discussion. Originally by: Greg Huff Edited by: Greg Huff on 02/12/2010 20:28:48 Anybody know what the average wait time for an NPC Station Research Slot is right now? (I have no idea) Doubling the number of slots each toon can use would increase the wait time by at least 150% (my conservative guess). Of course, if you're researching in a POS this means nothing to you... but it would cause similar job load increases on corp slots. Even super-humans have their limitations. I would stick with the current limits - 10/11 manufacturing AND 10/11 research. Edit: Just because you double/triple the number of slots each character can use, doesn't mean people will reduce the number of characters they play. Research jobs have a cap of 30d or 1ME/PE/1run. So the queues that are in NPC stations are more about timing then about the amount of slots you can use. Even if the allowed research jobs was 5 those queues would still be almost always maxed out. About your last statement it is true that even if the cap was increased many will still use there alts. However depending on the increase alot will have no need to. It also leans to the old saying that in order to play EVE somewhat competitively you have to have alts. Lastly if any of this didnt make sense, my bad. Posted right after work and tired. :(

rain9441 Big Head Want Dolly	Posted - 2010.12.03 15:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Breaker77 Wow, small timer I see. When you get 4 accounts all doing it, then come back and complain. Contrary to your belief, the number of slots one utilizes really has nothing to do with how big of a 'timer' they are. Go to MD and ask how many slots the average trader uses and how many they have available. More slots = horizontal scaling More ISK = vertical scaling If you have 120 slots running small and medium T1 ammo BPO's for profit well, woopdy do. I would figure that if a player could train to 300 slots like trading does, you'll find that after a short while you really only needed probably 20-30. There are always bigger things to build with your ISK that net more profit and don't require 100 slots. If there isn't, well, you've just won EVE? The real problem is if you do eliminate the 10 slot restriction, there will be alts that go unsubscribed forever. Less alts = less demand for plex = less money for CCP. So don't expect CCP to change something that has an obvious repercussion of less revenue and zero chance of additional revenue.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.12.03 17:28:00 - [12] Originally by: rain9441 Contrary to your belief, the number of slots one utilizes really has nothing to do with how big of a 'timer' they are. Go to MD and ask how many slots the average trader uses and how many they have available. Perhaps you have no idea who I am in the MD forum then, since I frequent it much much more than here. As to scaling, 120 invention build slots will earn 3 times more than 40. Science and Production have nothing to do with number of order slots/usage. Any serious producer will sell to wholesalers and let them take care of trading. When doing T2 modules 40 slots equals around 800 units a day, while 120 means 2400 units a day. With an average profit of around 150,000 ISK per item (you are inventing/building the profitable ones right?) Thats makes a hell of a difference in per day profit.
rain9441 Big Head Want Dolly	Posted - 2010.12.03 17:55:00 - [13] I acknowledge exactly what you are talking about. But a typical average player will find that they can progress up the chain of ISK/day by changing what they build rather than simply building more of the same. Just like traders decide to trade in different items rather than more items. Jumping into more ISK intensive markets leads to .. more isk. Suppose I have 10 slots. I can do X amount of work to get Y amount of pay. If I get another alt and have 20 slots, I can do 2X amount of work to get 2Y amount of pay. I've just doubled my profit per day as well as my amount of work necessary to achieve that amount of pay. Alternatively, I could have used my 10 slots more efficiently and gotten 1.2Y amount of pay for the same X amount of work. Maybe you've capped your slot efficiency, I don't know. But most players have not gotten that far. If you had 1000 slots, you wouldn't use all 1000. There is going to be some point where players decide they cant use any more slots because the cost of utilizing it is greater than the extra reward they get. My opinion is this number will be less than 30 on average* in the set of industry focused players who actually buy minerals as opposed to mine them. When I say on average, I would include time where slots were unused due to capital ISK not being around to support the activities (Which presumably happens a lot when players expand to multiple alts). Your magic number is 120 apparently :)
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.12.03 23:25:00 - [14] Originally by: rain9441 Suppose I have 10 slots. I can do X amount of work to get Y amount of pay. If I get another alt and have 20 slots, I can do 2X amount of work to get 2Y amount of pay. I've just doubled my profit per day as well as my amount of work necessary to achieve that amount of pay. Alternatively, I could have used my 10 slots more efficiently and gotten 1.2Y amount of pay for the same X amount of work. Maybe you've capped your slot efficiency, I don't know. But most players have not gotten that far. The sad thing is that even building bigger isn't always the best. Yes building T2 from invention, and the invention itself is a major pain and very time consuming. However, even something like building capitals or inventing and producing JFs might take a lot less time and micromanagement, but in the end most of those earn quite a bit less if you figure out the ISK/hr/slot ratio. Guess it's similar to the risk vs reward only this is time spent vs profit. Quote:* If you had 1000 slots, you wouldn't use all 1000. There is going to be some point where players decide they cant use any more slots because the cost of utilizing it is greater than the extra reward they get. My opinion is this number will be less than 30 on average in the set of industry focused players who actually buy minerals as opposed to mine them. When I say on average, I would include time where slots were unused due to capital ISK not being around to support the activities (Which presumably happens a lot when players expand to multiple alts). All good points. However, again, it depends what you are doing. Building JFs or capitals take ages to build so you could run 1000 slots without much time. However something like modules would drive a person to kill themselves Quote: Your magic number is 120 apparently :) WAS I got out of the invention/production business a couple months ago. Mainly due to lack of time with work. Now I have moved on to jobs that take a few minutes a day although the profit is less Well that, and my MD related activities which net me a sizable income per month.


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