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Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 02:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I had a Firetail with a TD kill my Coercer earlier. I made some piloting mistakes, mainly not getting it turned away from him soon enough but I still think I would have had to have flown it absolutely perfectly in order to win that fight. Truthfully I do not enjoy flying the Coercer. Frigate fights are much more fun but the Thrasher is hugely popular in FW minor plexes so I've felt compelled to fly a destroyer in order to counter them.
So after losing this fight it's got me thinking "Is there any Amarr frigate that can do the same thing to the Thrasher?". I think maybe a Slicer might stand a chance but the huge sig bloom from the MWD scares me. I'd love to be able to punch above my weight in a frigate but I just can't devise a laser boat that could do it. Suggestions? |

Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1205
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 02:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
A bunch of them can.
Just not in all situations. |

Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 02:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:A bunch of them can.
Just not in all situations.
Guess I should have titled it "which frigates can kill an AC Thrasher". |

Ravenclaw2kk
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 03:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Merlin, and incursus have no problems taking on the thrasher |

Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 03:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ravenclaw2kk wrote:Merlin, and incursus have no problems taking on the thrasher
How do they survive the DPS? |

Gorn Arming
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 03:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Is this a serious question? Any kiting frigate can kill an AC thrasher. The artillery thrasher is the dominant fit. |

Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 04:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gorn Arming wrote:Is this a serious question? Any kiting frigate can kill an AC thrasher. The artillery thrasher is the dominant fit.
Yes it's a serious question. I stated earlier that I was concerned about kiting thrashers with a slicer because of sig bloom. Can a thrasher not hit at 20k with barrage? Or is its DPS too low that far out? |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1794
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 04:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
I've done it with the Slicer and Punisher.
-Liang
Ed: But TD armor thrashers are super annoying. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 05:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I've done it with the Slicer and Punisher.
-Liang
Ed: But TD armor thrashers are super annoying.
Wouldn't a punisher have to brawl them? Seems like way too much DPS for it to handle. |

Jerick Ludhowe
Toxic Waste Industries
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 14:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Koujjo Dian wrote:Ravenclaw2kk wrote:Merlin, and incursus have no problems taking on the thrasher How do they survive the DPS?
They don't, this guy is just trolling :P
|

Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
499
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 18:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
A cookie cutter AC Thrasher with a MSE, Scram, and two gyro or equivalent (rigs), can put out about 440ish DPS with faction ammo. If you pull up a DPS graph on that though you'll see that most of the lethality is confined to 5km or less. At 10km you're doing a massive 70ish DPS. Barrage gets 330ish DPS - but again, at 10km you're doing about half of that. Add in the prevalence of TD on kiting ships out there and you can beat down a Thrasher at range. |

Koujjo Dian
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 20:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:A cookie cutter AC Thrasher with a MSE, Scram, and two gyro or equivalent (rigs), can put out about 440ish DPS with faction ammo. If you pull up a DPS graph on that though you'll see that most of the lethality is confined to 5km or less. At 10km you're doing a massive 70ish DPS. Barrage gets 330ish DPS - but again, at 10km you're doing about half of that. Add in the prevalence of TD on kiting ships out there and you can beat down a Thrasher at range.
Yeah I've been doing my "EFT Warrioring" with EVE HQ. I don't see a way to display damage graphs with that program so I'm kinda fuzzy on the mechanics of ACs in falloff and really have no idea what kind of damage they're capable of at extreme ranges. Thanks for the info. |

Taoist Dragon
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 21:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Koujjo Dian wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:A cookie cutter AC Thrasher with a MSE, Scram, and two gyro or equivalent (rigs), can put out about 440ish DPS with faction ammo. If you pull up a DPS graph on that though you'll see that most of the lethality is confined to 5km or less. At 10km you're doing a massive 70ish DPS. Barrage gets 330ish DPS - but again, at 10km you're doing about half of that. Add in the prevalence of TD on kiting ships out there and you can beat down a Thrasher at range. Yeah I've been doing my "EFT Warrioring" with EVE HQ. I don't see a way to display damage graphs with that program so I'm kinda fuzzy on the mechanics of ACs in falloff and really have no idea what kind of damage they're capable of at extreme ranges. Thanks for the info.
Just below the character and implant selection options there are 4 icons. One of them looks like an autocannon turret.
That is the damage analysis utility. It lets you pick you ships and fittings and pilots and put them in a combat simulation (range, speed, weapons etc) and it will give you the expected and theoretical max dps figures. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |

Reppyk
The Black Shell
146
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 22:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
TD Hookbill.
Kiting cormorant.
That's what I tried. |

Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
885
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 00:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Do any of you know of some paper that can beat scissors? Or a rock that can beat paper? You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |

Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
27
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 00:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
There are a few that will if you fit them specifically to take on a thrasher. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
464
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 00:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Any sort of kiting fit that works at 14+ km would do it, and there are a few that fit that bill among the new Attack Frigates (notably Condor and Executioner). However, inside that range, no...unless the thrasher pilot had 200mm autos ~and~ you have a tracking disruptor.
A kiting fit that works inside scram range will never work unless the pilot is too dumb to load barrage. |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1795
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 01:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Any sort of kiting fit that works at 14+ km would do it, and there are a few that fit that bill among the new Attack Frigates (notably Condor and Executioner). However, inside that range, no...unless the thrasher pilot had 200mm autos ~and~ you have a tracking disruptor.
A kiting fit that works inside scram range will never work unless the pilot is too dumb to load barrage.
This man obviously flies frigates. :)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
78
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 04:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Any sort of kiting fit that works at 14+ km would do it, and there are a few that fit that bill among the new Attack Frigates (notably Condor and Executioner). However, inside that range, no...unless the thrasher pilot had 200mm autos ~and~ you have a tracking disruptor.
A kiting fit that works inside scram range will never work unless the pilot is too dumb to load barrage.
Let me tell you about TD hookbills. Barrage won't save you. |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
1796
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 04:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:Kahega Amielden wrote:Any sort of kiting fit that works at 14+ km would do it, and there are a few that fit that bill among the new Attack Frigates (notably Condor and Executioner). However, inside that range, no...unless the thrasher pilot had 200mm autos ~and~ you have a tracking disruptor.
A kiting fit that works inside scram range will never work unless the pilot is too dumb to load barrage. Let me tell you about TD hookbills. Barrage won't save you.
I've seen Hahbs take on Thrashers in a Crucifier. It actually works.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 04:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yes.
A kiting frigate can beat an A/C Thrasher.
A fast brawler frig can beat an Arty Thrasher.
That's generally how it would play out in terms of strength vs. weakness.
Can a Brawler frig beat an A/C Thrasher? Yes, but that would come down to proper fittings an skills. With dual-TD, MWD, respectable tank (to take the occasional hits) and enough DPS to get the job done - it is doable. This, of course, presumes the Thrasher has a web, which is why the MWD is necessary. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
465
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 04:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:Let me tell you about TD hookbills. Barrage won't save you.
I was referring to t1 frigates. Navy frigates have a number of kiting options. |

Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 04:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:Let me tell you about TD hookbills. Barrage won't save you.
I was referring to t1 frigates. Navy frigates have a number of kiting options.
Here's a list of some T2 frigs that could solo pop an A/C Thrasher:
Kestrel (LML): Keep the transversal up to avoid the lucky shots because you'll be made of paper. Just make sure to stay within warp disruptor range.
Merlin (150mm Rail w/ CN Iron charges): Transversal is less of an issue here. Kite in the middle of your falloff - any further, dude hits the brakes and you pull out of warp disruptor range.
Executioner (Medium Pulses - "baby slicer"): Less effective than the above, but doable with long point and careful piloting. The new reduction in cap use for point allows you to nearly permarun prop or fit a small repper in one of the lows (heat sinks for the other two).
Perhaps a rail Atron as well, but I'd rather the above 3 before this.
|

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
465
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 06:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Quote:Kestrel (LML): Keep the transversal up to avoid the lucky shots because you'll be made of paper. Just make sure to stay within warp disruptor range.
No. Transversal will never be high enough to mean anything between the MWD sig bloom and the fact that you're being shot at by autocannons.
A LML kestrel will be virtually untanked and will do terrible damage. If the thrasher is able to close the distance to ~15km for even a few second you'll start going down quickly, and will take forever and a day to kill the thrasher.
Quote:Merlin (150mm Rail w/ CN Iron charges): Transversal is less of an issue here. Kite in the middle of your falloff - any further, dude hits the brakes and you pull out of warp disruptor range.
since the speed buff, maybe. With CN iron, though, your damage would be so low that you'd cap yourself out before actually killing him. Fortunately, CN iron gives you way more optimal than you need. CN thorium would be better.
[Merlin, Kite?]
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Medium Shield Extender II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
125mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Thorium Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Thorium Charge S 125mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Thorium Charge S
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Might work...But it caps itself out in 1m30s which could be a problem |

To mare
Advanced Technology
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 06:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
i killed AC thrashers in a rocket kestrel with mwd and javelin rockets and range rigs just stay at 15/18km and he cant hurt you and even with speed penalty the kestrel its still faster. also you can kill thrashers whit a double med ancillary shield booster merlin (no mwd just 2 MASB point and web) they will come at point blank anyway and at that point they cant get away |

Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 08:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Merlin with 3x150's ,AB Web Scram TD, DC 200mm and ANP II, pg speed and damage rigs.
OH your point click keep at range at 8.5k. Dead AC thrasher. |

Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
117
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 09:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
[Merlin, PVP - kite] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Amat victoria curam. |

Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 09:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:[Merlin, PVP - kite] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
"Interesting" fit. Almost no tank at all, no web, a cap booster and only 1 damage mod. I guess you're going for a pure speed tank with the nano and MWD, but with pretty much no tank and the sig bloom from the MWD, if you're hit, you die. And no, the TD will not save you. Not mention 2 fitting rigs for a T1 frig.
I think this fit needs work. |

Abannan
Moira. Villore Accords
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 13:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
150mm railgun comet has no issues with ac thrashers |

Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
118
|
Posted - 2012.08.12 17:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:[Merlin, PVP - kite] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge S
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
"Interesting" fit. Almost no tank at all, no web, a cap booster and only 1 damage mod. I guess you're going for a pure speed tank with the nano and MWD, but with pretty much no tank and the sig bloom from the MWD, if you're hit, you die. And no, the TD will not save you. Not mention 2 fitting rigs for a T1 frig. I think this fit needs work.
If you'd bother to check how that TD actually affects stuff you'll notice that it WILL work just fine, and you don't need tank if you have the range, TD and speed advantage. Actually, it'll work against many targets.
Amat victoria curam. |
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