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The Larold
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:33:00 -
[1]
I am a level 4 mission runner in Caldari space, and will soon be upgrading my Raven to a CNR or Golem.
I have never been ganked in high sec before, and really want to cut down on the possibility once I'm in my new ship, so I'll ask the following specific questions:
- If I upgrade my launchers and mods all to Faction quality, do I make myself a likely gank target?
- What habbits will decrease my odds of being ganked the most? I always use warp-to-0 on the gates, and don't lay around idle in space, ever.
- Where and when am I most likely to be ganked? Right after undocking from my agent station? Right after coming through a gate and heading for the mission objective / agent station?
- If I am ganked in 0.5 space, how long do I need to survive before CONCORD comes and kills all the gankers off?
- How many ships do I need to see at a station or gate before my alert level goes up?
- If I see 1 or more yellow entries at a gate or station, should I get nervous?
- Are there any telltale signs of a gank party in high-sec before I actually get fired on?
- Does having only one dead space mod anywhere on my ship (shield booster) greatly increase my odds of being ganked, or only slightly? Assume mod costs couple hundred mil.
- Do mission runners ever get ganked WHILE at the mission site in high sec? If so, how do I predict this as early as possible and avoid it?
- If I see flashing red entries, and I am being ganked, what steps should I take to maximize odds of survival?
Any other advice you can think of to help with gank-avoidance is much appreciated!
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Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:47:00 -
[2]
If the total cost of modules is high enough, you're gank-bait.
Gank-targets are located usually by some random ship running a ship scanner. (Target lock, run scanner) If you seem to get randomly targeted by frigs more often, think of it as a sign.
If you're in a highly used mission spot, expect gankers to be lurking.
They WILL scan down mission runners they've targeted.
If you see flashy reds attacking, it's too late to do anything. Hold on tight and pray. (that they are idiots who didn't bring enough.... Nope, they got ya)
A single 200m mod isn't going to make you an attractive target for a suicide gank. Having a 2bil fit WILL.
Missioning in out of the way locations will cut the odds of being spotted.
Boasting about your pricey rig.... "HEY! COME GANK MY ASS!"
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:43:00 -
[3]
Don't autopilot.
Don't fly with your hardeners turned off.
If you move around some jumps do it with all round damage resistances AND a Damage Control fitted and always on. If you have to move longer, fit buffer tank with proper resistance (if possible), having a meta 14 shield repper won't help you a single bit vs having a super cheap T2 extender.
If you see a ship blinking / "bracketing" you, it's a scanner. Usually an incospicuous frig with a new alt with no orange or any "evil" other signs.
Do not mission in Motsu, Emolgranlan, Dodixie etc. etc. unless you know WTF you are doing (if you are asking, you are not yet).
0.5 sec = gank is twice as easy, most gank ships will be able to shoot on you twice / more.
If your drops are >= 1B you are in yellow risk and have to be an idiot if you will be ganked (by not observing the above).
If your drops are >= 2-3B you are in red risk and you were an idiot to fit a ship like that.
No ship can avoid being ganked so make yourself worthless being ganked.
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Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
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Derekian
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.11 12:15:00 -
[4]
Tengu can easily avoid being ganked.
Use intercalation and a prop rig to get 3 sec allign. Fit for unprobeable.
Use undock bookmarks.
Play at agents which system has 2+ exits , and their adjacent system are connected.
Theres no way they can gank you. They cant scan you. Cant probe you. Cant even catch you. Ive survived for years low sec without losing a tengu.
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Mr Dilkington
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Posted - 2010.12.11 14:25:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Helen Hunts
If the total cost of modules is high enough, you're gank-bait.
Gank-targets are located usually by some random ship running a ship scanner. (Target lock, run scanner) If you seem to get randomly targeted by frigs more often, think of it as a sign.
Anyone with half a brain does uses a passive targeter so you dont even know you have been locked.
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Vardec Crom
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Posted - 2010.12.11 16:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mr Dilkington
Originally by: Helen Hunts
If the total cost of modules is high enough, you're gank-bait.
Gank-targets are located usually by some random ship running a ship scanner. (Target lock, run scanner) If you seem to get randomly targeted by frigs more often, think of it as a sign.
Anyone with half a brain does uses a passive targeter so you dont even know you have been locked.
It doesn't show that they are targeting you (blinking yellow square) but you're auto-targeting still targets them. Assuming you have it on.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.11 16:26:00 -
[7]
it really depends on the total value of the mods. a dread guristas invlun is around 400m, where a pith b-type x-large booster is only ~175m
easiest way to scan mission runners is on station undock. warping to 0, well that is what everyone else does, and idle in space, well running a mission is pretty much the same as being idle in space.
you will likely be ganked jumping through a gate, or in your mission space.
if you see a large group of battleships it is likely either too late, or they are waiting for someone else. overload the hardeners and pray.
the old math said around 300m fit was where it started to become profitable to gank a pve fit battleship. with a 300m fit it is reasonable to assume half will drop. I think that number came from 10 people, with an individual cost of 15m each. and well 10 people is often a bit of overkill. even with less people that still isn't an excellent payout, I mean its better to just be running missions with that kinda payout, but like I said, that is where it starts to become profitable.
with the insurance changes these days it isn't worth it to clone jump back to empire for a sum like that. plus it costs more per ship because of the insurance changes.
everyone is really hoping for a multibillion officer fit pinata. but I don't think anyone would gank for less than 20m profit per person. rough estimate around 600m-1b fit. last gank I was on was all x-type and faction. faction launchers + bcus probably won't draw attention, although you should use t2 launchers instead, fury ammo is fantastic 
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.11 17:54:00 -
[8]
Turn the query on it's head a bit: if you were wanting to gank someone's mission pinata, what would it take to do it? how would you go about it? what's the point at which it'd be economic? once you've figured all that out you can take steps to make yourself unattractive ( because if you **** the wrong people off, they'll blow you up for fun regardless ). Generally once you've skilled up enough the main expense is probably damage mods ( bcu/gyro/heatsinks ), the rest can be cheap + therefore unattractive.
You might at some point doing the above decide that ganking missionrunners sounds more attractive tha missioning; ain't Eve wonderful? ;)
If you're in the process of being ganked, overload everything and pray they get bad shots, and don't shoot back. Other than that if you're in a BS that isn't a Mach, there's very little you can do.
Watch d-scan if you're in a populated place, keep an eye out for people probing. Very very easy to probe out a mission boat ( Marauders you can quite often get a hit with 8AU probes ), but you might get a lucky dscan hit. Alternatively if you pull the range down to 500k or so you can see people arriving in your deadspace and avoid the clutter of half a dozen other people's missions.
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Aureus
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Posted - 2010.12.11 18:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Derekian
Use undock bookmarks.
What are undock bookmarks?
I remember I used to make bookmarks 15km past stations/gates so when I warp to them I am on top of the gate/station and can jump/dock immediately (though now it seems you can always warp to within 0km of stuff - this is new to me). But I have no idea what is a undock bookmark
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Darial
Gallente
Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.12.11 18:34:00 -
[10]
Dont use faction launchers, T2 tank with a faction/deadspace booster, faction damage mods
you are set
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Djinn Xh'rnae
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Posted - 2010.12.11 20:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Aureus
Originally by: Derekian
Use undock bookmarks.
What are undock bookmarks?
I remember I used to make bookmarks 15km past stations/gates so when I warp to them I am on top of the gate/station and can jump/dock immediately (though now it seems you can always warp to within 0km of stuff - this is new to me). But I have no idea what is a undock bookmark
Undock from a station and hit your AB or MWD. Fly about 200 - 600 KM from the station and create a bookmark.
Now when you undock from that station you have a bookmark you can near insta-warp to (since you're traveling fullspeed when you undock).
Note that this doesn't work perfectly. Sometimes - especially at busy undock stations - you'll exit the station at an angle other than straight towards your bookmark.
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Simplification is not inherently evil. Sometimes things really are needlessly obtuse or vestigial. - Black Dranzer |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.12.11 22:07:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 11/12/2010 22:08:35
If you're really worried, then don't run out of a major hub. Gankers are going to look where there are many targets, and if you're in a quiet area you will likely have no gankers at all looking for kills.
Originally by: Djinn Xh'rnae
Sometimes - especially at busy undock stations - you'll exit the station at an angle other than straight towards your bookmark.
Actually, you'll always exit at an angle since that was CCPs "brilliant" fix for station undock congestion. Chances of making a screwed up undock BM are pretty good.
Oh yeah, about my sig... you have now read it.
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Zarbane
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Posted - 2010.12.11 22:53:00 -
[13]
Gankers will scan down expensive ships such as Marauders, State/Navy issue ships to look for expensive mods. If you only have a few faction mods you aren't worth ganking. You don't need all the best mods for a good ship to do L4s, don't go overboard. My Marauder has no faction mods, just T2 mods and I do L4s easily. Sure I could spend a few hundred million to get faction mods and guns and it would make easy missions even easier but I don't see the point. All it would do is make me a better target. Having only T2 mods means zero interest from gankers in high sec.
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The Larold
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Posted - 2010.12.11 23:35:00 -
[14]
Thanks for the info everyone - it's been extremely helpful. Please keep posting any thoughts you have. I have decided, as I switch to my Golem, to go with Tech II launchers + Fury ammo, to cut down on my fit by a coulple hundred million. Should help a bit by not having pricey faction launchers on my ship.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2010.12.11 23:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aureus
What are undock bookmarks?
You come out of the station at full speed, and pointing roughly in the same direction as the center of the exit orientation. If you have a bookmark that is with 5¦ of your ship's current heading and at least ~150km away, you'll be able to instantly enter warp because you're already aligned to it and fast enough when you come out of the station. You're invulnerable for 30 seconds after undocking, but that immunity ends the moment you turn on a module or attempt to enter warp; all you can do while still retaining your invulnerability is hit CTRL + Space to stop your ship.
People recommend long undock bookmarks so you can be off the grid of the station, that way they can't immediately find you. Depending on the number of ships/wrecks/containers on the grid, that can be anywhere from 300km to over 800km, and it varies. I wouldn't make an instant undock bookmark at less than about 700km, and my Jita 4/4 bookmark is around 3000km away.
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Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Birdman Ravo
Legion of The Birds
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Posted - 2010.12.12 00:05:00 -
[16]
First and foremost, shut up about your fit. The chances of being randomly scanned by someone looking to gank a mission runner: low. The chance of that same individual paying attention when you boast about a 3 billion isk CNR in local: high.
Keep the mission ship out of places the mission ship shouldn't be. If it's not a mission, fly something else. If it's lowsec, fly something else. If it's a courier, fly something else.
A good counter if you think you might be a gank target is to pull a damage mod out of your lows and fit a damage control II. They tend to add a good ~40% to your total ship hit points. If a gank squad who's scanned your ship attacks you expecting a 41000 HP ship and finds a 58000 HP ship instead, then you just survived getting ganked.
Another strategy is if you're going to fit expensively, fit around one expensive module. A complete T2 fit with a single 700m isk repper isn't a viable target because the chances of that one item dropping are very slim. A fitting with 6 45m isk guns, 4 90m isk damage mods, and a 70m isk repper is a much better target dispite being the same isk value.
My 2 isk anyway. For a while I was a little paranoid after a convo in local about how some of us had fit our mission ships. Then I got scanned afterwards and decided to do something about it. I bought and T2 fit a Raven and flew that for a while. Problem solved.
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Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.12 01:54:00 -
[17]
If you have a 2 bil fit and undock thats the point at witch you are profitable to gank.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.12 05:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Birdman Ravo
First and foremost, shut up about your fit. The chances of being randomly scanned by someone looking to gank a mission runner: low. The chance of that same individual paying attention when you boast about a 3 billion isk CNR in local: high.
if you are in a hub chances you are going to get scanned is pretty damn high. even in lesser hubs its pretty high. although boasting about fits is a pretty damn good way to get noticed too.
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2010.12.12 12:57:00 -
[19]
Spamming in sub-0.5 local something like this will probably draw attention: "Hey, my dual Gist X-Type X-Large Shiel Booster tactics seems to be paying off. I need the money cause I spent all my ISK on this Estamel Invulnerability Field."
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SargeantNekkid DDS
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Posted - 2010.12.12 15:00:00 -
[20]
If you run a Golem, you're using 4 siege launchers and 4 BCS's. That adds up to about 700m for Caldari Navy modules at current prices.
If you need faction tank modules for a Golem, you're doing it wrong.
Ergo your fit shouldn't be more than about 800m max. According to the above figures of "1b or more fits" I'd say you're fine. People run into problems with CNR fits because those fit 7 launchers and then you get into the 1b range.
If you skip on the launchers (eh, so reloads are a few missiles more frequent and a couple seconds slower... big whoop) while sticking with faction BCS's, then your fit is worth a mere 400-450m, and not worth ganking according to anyone.
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bushwacka
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Posted - 2010.12.12 16:20:00 -
[21]
just limit your shopping spree to stuff that improves your pewpew, but that suicide gankers can't take from you: bling ship, T2 rigs, implants. sure, there are guys out there that gank faction ships just for the sake of griefing, but the odds of that happening are next to zero as long as you don't spend all your time ****ing people off 
after that, just keep the module cost to about half a bil in total
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Doddy
Burning Vendetta
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Posted - 2010.12.12 22:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: The Larold
I am a level 4 mission runner in Caldari space, and will soon be upgrading my Raven to a CNR or Golem.
I have never been ganked in high sec before, and really want to cut down on the possibility once I'm in my new ship, so I'll ask the following specific questions:
- If I upgrade my launchers and mods all to Faction quality, do I make myself a likely gank target? No, except invuls maybe
- What habbits will decrease my odds of being ganked the most? I always use warp-to-0 on the gates, and don't lay around idle in space, ever. Don't mission in busy systems, don't ever post/talk fits or bid on officer mods on forums with your mission char, don't buy such mods with your mission char either
- Where and when am I most likely to be ganked? Right after undocking from my agent station? Right after coming through a gate and heading for the mission objective / agent station? Right after jumping through a gate, so use a scout
- If I am ganked in 0.5 space, how long do I need to survive before CONCORD comes and kills all the gankers off? Its likely the gankers will have time for only one volley regardless, so it doesn't matter
- How many ships do I need to see at a station or gate before my alert level goes up? Your EHP divided by a t2 fitted bs alpha
- If I see 1 or more yellow entries at a gate or station, should I get nervous? Not really, sce hit for ship kill is minimal.
- Are there any telltale signs of a gank party in high-sec before I actually get fired on? 10 bs from the same corp sitting on a gate with sensor boosters running - either they are ganking or in a war. Loan npc corp frig sitting at undock - prob a scanner
- Does having only one dead space mod anywhere on my ship (shield booster) greatly increase my odds of being ganked, or only slightly? Assume mod costs couple hundred mil. No
- Do mission runners ever get ganked WHILE at the mission site in high sec? If so, how do I predict this as early as possible and avoid it? Yes - move away from the warp in and try to remain aligned out
- If I see flashing red entries, and I am being ganked, what steps should I take to maximize odds of survival? Make sure all your hardners/reps are turned on and overloaded, spam warp
Any other advice you can think of to help with gank-avoidance is much appreciated!
Fit a damage control
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