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Admiral Pieg
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Posted - 2005.01.17 13:40:00 -
[31]
Now i see absolutely nothing wrong with ore thieving, but i do believe that like with everything else in eve, there should be a risk vs reward system. If i put my wallet down for a minute im not expecting someone to nick it. If they do, they would have to suffer the consequenses, with emphasis on suffer.
Now i know this isnt real life, but when someone spends time and money(time is money in eve) getting something, its usually considered theirs.
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Pod from above. |
Sudesh Potdar
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Posted - 2005.01.17 13:52:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Admiral Pieg
... but i do believe that like with everything else in eve, there should be a risk vs reward system. ... but when someone spends time and money(time is money in eve) getting something, its usually considered theirs.
Don't you see? There is a risk vs reward system in there.
For the miner,
Risk = Jetcan is freely accessible. Someone can cone grab it.
Reward = great convenience and boost to efficiency.
For the thief,
Risk = Miner guy is angry enough to remember his name and stalk him. Kill him someday and get even.
Reward = Quick and easy ISK.
The key thing here is that the miner was using a jetcan. And jetcans are meant to be freely accessible. And the miner knows this fact. And the miner still decides to go ahead with it. So the miner is implicitely taking a risk by using the wrong tool for the wrong purpose.
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David Goodwill
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Posted - 2005.01.17 14:02:00 -
[33]
Quote:
For the thief,
Risk = Miner guy is angry enough to remember his name and stalk him. Kill him someday and get even.
Not when nearly ALL ore thieves are alts and ones that are deleted every 2 weeks, as ore thieves are cowards and however they try to say what they are doing is ok, they all know that they are griefing and seem to take some sort of sick pleasure in it...
Quote:
If you keep you entire life savings in a sweet tin and someone walks off with it, well then you were asking for it
doesn't make it any less of a crime though... 
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Mating call of a pirate...
"rarrggghhh, omg r0x0r, ph34r meeeee"
Average age: 12..  |
Sudesh Potdar
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Posted - 2005.01.17 14:11:00 -
[34]
CCP has said that the alt ore thieves are abusing alt character usage and it is bannable. You still insist that its thieving when you use jetcans to mine. Well it is, but it was meant to be. Your risk. Your reward. You put it in a jetcan, the only thing preventing people from stealing is their personal integrity. And if they chose to take your ore, well there's not a thing you can do and complaining won't help. Just like if you put a pile of cash on the streets. Someone will pick it up. What are you going to do? You asked for it.
I feel that you're being obtuse and you refuse to face the facts. Well I'm not going to argue with you. Just like I'll not want to participate in the special olympics. No matter who wins, you're still an idiot. 
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.01.17 14:35:00 -
[35]
Originally by: MooKids
Edited by: MooKids on 15/01/2005 14:54:02
Originally by: Shyamalan
i have to agree. Ore thieving is an inevitable side-product of jet-can mining. But like all aspects of eve, there needs to be balance.
There already is balance. The ore thief is the balance to the risk free jet can miner. Their "risks" include the target being smart and using secure cans, mining in .4 and below, mining outside of highway systems, etc.
And to people who want to kill them? You disgust me, murdering someone over a petty theft.
That is just so much crap. Ore thiefs and those that use alts to kill miners in high sec space are taking no risk. This is just another reason alts should be phased out of the game, or some mechanizim put in place to actually make that "profession" have some risk.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Calsak
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Posted - 2005.01.17 15:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sudesh Potdar
The intent of the act is still stealing wether you walk off with a sweet tin or if you hit a bank. That's true. Both intents: stealing. But the way I see it, here's the catch: In the case of the sweet tin, you are partly at fault because you know that it was not secure. In a way, you enabled the crime to happen. Same with using a freely accessable jetcan to mine.
Precisely what I wrote. Either way it's stealing just one way is easier than the other. No-one (reasonable) would argue against this.
The problem that most people have is that even if you get your sweet tin stolen and the police tell you 'You should of put it in a bank sonny' action would still be taken to catch/prosecute those reponsible.
If the thieves went to trial would you think the judge would say 'Well, he kept his money in a sweet tin, he was asking for it. Case dismissed!'. Of course not, the issue in Eve is one of justice (or lack of) rather than is or is not theft.
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Ryctor
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Posted - 2005.01.17 16:16:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Calsak
Precisely what I wrote. Either way it's stealing just one way is easier than the other. No-one (reasonable) would argue against this.
The problem that most people have is that even if you get your sweet tin stolen and the police tell you 'You should of put it in a bank sonny' action would still be taken to catch/prosecute those reponsible.
If the thieves went to trial would you think the judge would say 'Well, he kept his money in a sweet tin, he was asking for it. Case dismissed!'. Of course not, the issue in Eve is one of justice (or lack of) rather than is or is not theft.
 Waa Waa Waaa. Thats all your post amounts to. You want to play a game where your precious veldspar isnt stolen then here you go. It should fit your carebear lifestyle perfectly.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2005.01.17 17:07:00 -
[38]
You can protect your ore. Drones are a good thing to have, especially lots of small drones. You can tie up an industrial for a long time with those. If you have a buddy or two in nimbler, you can just continually ram the bastard away from the can till he gives up.
The ramming trick is always legal. You can go around if you are really worried about the macro users and bump them away from their cans or the roids if they don't respond. If they correct themselves, leave them alone. If you want to do it quick, make a well placed bookmark and ram them at warp-exit velocity.
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Calsak
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Posted - 2005.01.17 17:16:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Calsak on 17/01/2005 17:21:26
Originally by: Calsak
Either way it's stealing just one way is easier than the other. No-one (reasonable) would argue against this.
I had no doubt that you would reply to this...Unfortunately you are rather predictable.
Originally by: Ryctor
Waa Waa Waaa. Thats all your post amounts to. You want to play a game where your precious veldspar isnt stolen then here you go. It should fit your carebear lifestyle perfectly.
Ryctor, please read topic's before replying to them. You may gain valuable insight into the game and thus how to play it. I did indicated that I actually had Ice ore stolen, not Veldspa and I did not whine, moan or complain about the thief in question.
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.01.17 17:47:00 -
[40]
These ore thief threads used to be amusing for me, now they are simply annoying.
I guess it's too much to ask those who steal ore, and those who support that "career" to simply grow up? Maybe they don't have pubic hairs yet? I don't know...
To me, it's getting to a point that I hope CCP abolishes this unintended and unwanted "career" in EVE, for simply the sake of ridding the forums of this non-sense.
Ore thieves are nothing more than griefing 13 year olds, who get off on stealing. Just like children get off on shop-lifting. Same damn thing...
CCP, you really need to fix this. Nothing good will ever come out of allowing these children to anger many of your subscription holders... Nothing at all...
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"for piece sakes!" |
Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.01.17 20:45:00 -
[41]
You can still set a password on a non-anchored secure can. You can leave it behind and come back to it. 1.0 space is filled with them. Nobody can steal said can, (does not belong to you). But they will kinda drift off one day, never to be seen again.
If CCP concidered "Ore Thief" to be a bad thing then they would stop it. You dump your garbage and the bum comes and picks it up. Simple. There is nothing leagally you can do about it. And nothing CCP will do. So stop winage,invest in some secure cans and go about you day...
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box and from this site.
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.01.17 20:48:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Calsak
Edited by: Calsak on 17/01/2005 13:18:58
Originally by: Roshan longshot
There is no such thing as a "Ore Thief". When will you people get it into your heads? You tossed out that ore. Threw it away with last weeks load of Pampers. You lost all claim to such ore.
You create a container (Floating Cargo) and you are adding items into said container for whatever means you seem fit. There is nothing stating that you are losing any claim to the contents of the container or any subsequent items you transfer into it.
The container isn't secure so the contents of that container are open to any unskilled person to take without permission.
The fact the container was orginally designed as a way of emptying your cargo hold of any unwanted item is irrelivent. I can take a sweet tin and store money in it, it doesn't mean someone can take me to court if they choke on a ú1 coin thinking it was a Caramel Penny.
Putting my money in a Bank though it the preferred method and more secure but if someone takes my sweet tin full of ú10 notes it is equally stealing as if they run into a Bank with a sawn off shot gun. It's just one way is easier and I'd get little sympathy from the police when I report it.
The fact that this way of using these containers is widely reported and discussed as a way of mining removes any doubt that anyone taking the contents is fully aware that they are not taking unwanted items. This then defines that person as a thief.
Takes a brit to confuse me this bad....sweat tin...carmal penny? read the players hand book mate.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box and from this site.
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Oz Draconis
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Posted - 2005.01.18 14:34:00 -
[43]
You are free to use alts or trial accounts for any purpose you choose. I was recently attacked in secure space by a group using 3 day old characters that I believed were trial accounts. I filed a petition and got my reply this morning.
"We have now investigated the matter fully and even if these players you named did use questionable tactics, it has been decided that we do not consider this to be an exploit. It is fully legal to use trial accounts for any purpose (within certain limits though) and also legal to attack other players within 'secure' space. We hope you understand our position and that you will recover quickly from the loss."
If you would like some Kestrels to go after the ore pirates, I'll make them for you at cost. 
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Calsak
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Posted - 2005.01.18 14:48:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Calsak on 18/01/2005 14:58:19
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Takes a brit to confuse me this bad....sweat tin...carmal penny? read the players hand book mate.
I have, several times. I failed to see any reference to you or ore thieves's in general. I don't see this as a problem or a reason 'disallow' them in game. The problem isn't one of whether it's stealling but perceived (lack) of justice against them.
BTW...I don't know where you're from but I'd hate to own a 'sweat tin' if thats the norm...Yuk!
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Steno
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Posted - 2005.01.18 15:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Ore thiefs and those that use alts to kill miners in high sec space are taking no risk. This is just another reason alts should be phased out of the game, or some mechanizim put in place to actually make that "profession" have some risk.
Thats exactly what I was getting at, there is no risk for nearly all ore thieves. We are encouraged to use jet cans to mine unless we wish to spend 2/3 of our time running back to base. We take that risk on ourselves though. I take many risks in the game, knowing there is some balance. Ore thieves are supposedly taking a risk but what risk are they taking? would someone kindly tell me what it is?
The sad part is that Ore thieves could be an interesting profession, especially for those wanting to start out on the wrong side of the law, it could be a good start in high sec space. Thats the reason I keep asking this, I actually think ore thieving should be a valid profession.
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Ryctor
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Posted - 2005.01.18 16:13:00 -
[46]
Lets see....what are my risks. Oh I know. Getting shot at in every system I venture into whether high or low, by some asshat who thinks than can break my BattleIndy. Not getting any business whether selling OR buying in the trade channels because there is always someone there to say "OMG RECTUM IS AN ORE THEIF!!!! DONT SELL TO HIM!!!!" Constant harrasment mail( though its funny and makes me pee my pants a little at times). I'm sure I'll be able to think up some more while sitting in my financial accounting class this afternoon.
Some of you think I'm pathetic for spending most of my time flying around picking up chunked ore, you should see the people who follow ME around warning everyone about me. Some real winners there.
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Steno
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Posted - 2005.01.18 16:22:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ryctor
Lets see....what are my risks. Oh I know. Getting shot at in every system I venture into whether high or low, by some asshat who thinks than can break my BattleIndy. Not getting any business whether selling OR buying in the trade channels because there is always someone there to say "OMG RECTUM IS AN ORE THEIF!!!! DONT SELL TO HIM!!!!" Constant harrasment mail( though its funny and makes me pee my pants a little at times). I'm sure I'll be able to think up some more while sitting in my financial accounting class this afternoon.
Some of you think I'm pathetic for spending most of my time flying around picking up chunked ore, you should see the people who follow ME around warning everyone about me. Some real winners there.
those ore thieves in their own corps are just fine with me. its the ones that hide in npc corps and recycle the characters. While they may want to risk getting a ban many of us don't want to risk a ban by using recyclable alts for protection, and thus there is no risk.
And a few words are "risk"? omg! and if you are getting harassment mail peition it. Or even better post it so we can all laugh :)
but basically we got way off topic and back into the "jet can mining is exploit" vs "ore thieves should be quartered" argument. Seems the devs will once again not comment on using alts to protect yourself, just like the many other questions we have.
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Ryctor
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Posted - 2005.01.18 16:31:00 -
[48]
THey've already commented on it. You can use an alt to pod/kill people in space to your little carebear heart content. What you cant do is using an alt till its hit -2.0 or whatever neg sec status you want then recycle it just to bypass the neg sec. SO in essence......Alts = ok.....recycling Alts to clean their sec status so you dont have to NPC to lower it = making baby jesus cry.
Get it Cowboy?
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Bhaal
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Posted - 2005.01.18 16:38:00 -
[49]
Quote:
...while sitting in my financial accounting class this afternoon.
That explains so much...
I'd like to know the average age of an ore thief...
Might prove to be quite enlightening...
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"for piece sakes!" |
Ryctor
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Posted - 2005.01.18 16:41:00 -
[50]
Thanks for another ensightful comment Troll. Should you be sucking on some veldspar roids right about now?
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Calsak
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Posted - 2005.01.18 16:51:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Calsak on 18/01/2005 16:51:57
Originally by: Ryctor
Some of you think I'm pathetic for spending most of my time flying around picking up chunked ore, you should see the people who follow ME around warning everyone about me. Some real winners there.
I certainly don't think that of you simply because you're an thief within Eve.
Any person who takes another players ore IS playing within the mechanic's of the current game. I'm certainly not going to call anyone because of this. I and any other player currently must take the chance that someone can take your ore from a Floating Cargo container as it isn't secure. The Thief MUST admit what they are doing is wrong (from a moral point of view) but equally the Miner MUST accept the risks of unsecure mining.
Any thoughts I have about ore-theft is directed towards changes to the game mechanics not anyone person. (Although if I see you on Local I'll be on my guard whatever security rated system I'm in )
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Steno
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Posted - 2005.01.18 18:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ryctor
THey've already commented on it. You can use an alt to pod/kill people in space to your little carebear heart content. What you cant do is using an alt till its hit -2.0 or whatever neg sec status you want then recycle it just to bypass the neg sec. SO in essence......Alts = ok.....recycling Alts to clean their sec status so you dont have to NPC to lower it = making baby jesus cry.
Get it Cowboy?
Then stop your argument there is a threat to ore thieves. Tthere is no real risk to being an ore thief. If you use an alt to kill him/her then you soon can't use that alt in high enough set space. Most use alts in NPC corps thus no war. Thus again no risk. Get it?
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Virago
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Posted - 2005.01.18 18:42:00 -
[53]
OMG...you bunch of whiney butts. Just play the GAME!
Dear, CCP. Can you please add the following check boxes for my account.
"FitAllBelt" in cargo hold.
"RyctorPops" on sight area of effect preferably 10km.
"StationWarp" to me mining on belt so I don't have to haul.
"SendCareBearMiners" to 0.0 with click because they really SHOULD be there.
"GrantISK" so I can just type in what I want.
Heck just give us "GodMode".
CCP can't make the game enjoyable for EVERY person that plays. Get over it.
I really like start of thread myself "OhhhNoooes...I want to be a professional thief, but these carebears miners are sick of it to death, and are podding me kilting me with alts because I hide in NPC corp so they can't wage war."
Yohohohohohoho.........
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MinorFreak
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Posted - 2005.01.19 01:55:00 -
[54]
Edited by: MinorFreak on 19/01/2005 02:02:26
Originally by: MooKids
Edited by: MooKids on 15/01/2005 14:54:02
Originally by: Shyamalan
i have to agree. Ore thieving is an inevitable side-product of jet-can mining. But like all aspects of eve, there needs to be balance.
There already is balance. The ore thief is the balance to the risk free jet can miner. Their "risks" include the target being smart and using secure cans, mining in .4 and below, mining outside of highway systems, etc.
And to people who want to kill them? You disgust me, murdering someone over a petty theft.
yer hilarious. here's a cookie.
anyone ask themselves whether his point holds any water, after you realize one can't 'lock' secure cans in secure space. Makes the entire point of "checks and balances" ridiculous and shows CCP to be lazy arses. You'd have to be a mental midget NOT to realize, when you were coding a jetcan, that mining just maybe perhaps remotely could be impacted by this feature.
Personally, even if they removed this overcapacity 'jet-can' we'd still be stuck with unsecure/unlockable cans that can't be set close together in space - thus making the indy mining hauler career handicapped, skyrocketing the prices of ore/minerals, and generally making things total hell for folks just because CCP is squeamish about enabling an 'ore thief' flag.
Personally, i think ore thieves are needed to counter the overwhelming greed of some people who think strip mining n00b belts is 1337 - these people wouldn't be able to kill a flagged ore thief because they're so greedy they don't have any offensive weaponry. That's an appropriate check/balance and a "risk" greedy people take in trafficked, safe systems.
The idea that ore thieves don't need a check/balance is only something a retarded monkey would conjure up.
Edit: of course, this is based on the assumption that there's no way to lock an unanchored secure container. (based on stories of passworded secure containers in cargo holds can be opened by pirates blowing up a ship)
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