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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.13 19:37:00 - [1] I don't care about RMT. There I said it. RMT impacts CCPs profits and its their problem. The incessant macro ratting however subjects every single honest player to a situation where they are worth LESS if they do nothing in game for 5 minutes. Every minute you don't earn, you are worth less. Remember that bounties are NEW isk, mined ore/ice isn't. Its a bit like printing money - people in UK/US ought to get that. As the blog is basically meaningless PR nonsense I think we'll need to see if we can get enough support to remove 0.0 bounties. It'll need a little tweaking but if we can come up with something that reduces the NEW isk entering the game from premeditated cheating then perhaps thats the only way to go. In response to the blog - way to go, that'll really discourage people
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 08:52:00 - [2] Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 08:54:42 Originally by: Mynxee Originally by: Datcorinna Erunde For your convenience the great Wollari even colored the shown systems accordingly to the amount of the occured kills. He colored it from white (like "almost nothing") via green, yellow, orange up to a fine, perfect visible shiny red (like "unusually high occurance of NPC kills in this very system OMG OMG!!!!!!11111" or, more fitting "look here CCP, here are the bots!"). Third party tools to the rescue...again. Indeed. Heres what 15 minutes effort shows..... Time to name and shame - these are the 15 most blatant botting systems in the game and if CCP can't deal with it then its time to pack up and find another game : 8OYE-Z : Cache (SOLAR WING) Y-OMTZ : Delve (IT Alliance) G2-INZ : Esoteria (Stainless) HHQ-M1 : Esoteria (Stainless) ROJ-B0 : Insmother (RED Citizens) VBPT-T : Insmother (RED Citizens) Y-770C : Oasa (Legion of xXDEATHXx) RO-AIQ : Oasa (Shadow of xXDEATHXx) G-B3PR : Omist (White Angels) UC-8XF : Outer Passage (Shadow of xXDEATHXx) F-HQWV : Perrigen Falls (SOLAR FLEET) W-IIYI : Querious (IT Alliance) WIW-X8 : The Spire (SOLAR FLEET) HM-UVD : Stain (AAA/AAA Citizens) 4F89-U : Wicked Creek (The Jagged Alliance) Oh and as an observation - looks like some alliances got told to stop botting for a while about 24 hours ago. Its very very clear when you look at the dotlan maps - pretty much all ratting activity ceased in certain eastern regions at exactly the same time.
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 12:54:00 - [3] Originally by: Shurikane You guys realize they can't ban without irrefutable proof, right? Imagine if they really did ban on suspicion. That numbers above and beyond normality were considered a sign of botting and dealt with accordingly. OK. OK, let's do that. ... What if you do have that much time to spend mining and ratting? Are you screwed? Heh nice try at muddying the water. CCP can ban you for any reason they can think of. Doesn't matter whether they have proof or not. So lets deal with "proof" shall we? There is a clear record of all bounties awarded for killing npcs. Start there with the banstick. Nice and easy - simply look at the obvious systems (I provided a list of 15) and look at who has been there lately. If anyone thinks its normal that a system way the hell out in the middle of nowhere has a rat kill every 7 seconds on average then I got a bridge to sell you. CCP KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. There's no way they can't know short of gross incompetence. Their choice as to whether to ignore it or not.
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 13:30:00 - [4] Originally by: Shurikane Story time! Your analogy makes zero sense in this context. The people concerned are running bots 23/7. That can be seen AND proven over a couple of weeks. So either they're botting or they are sharing the account. Either one carries a ban. Do keep on trying to muddy the water - I'm sure sooner or later it'll become obvious whose alt you are.
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 13:34:00 - [5] Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 13:34:17 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Jack Gilligan That system is a repeat offender... 9,612 NPC's killed in the last 3 hours equals 53, yes, FIFTY THREE NPC's killed every SECOND. Math surely isn't your strongest side. It is 3600 seconds in an hour. hint ...and its not 3 hours either :) He has a point about that system though
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 15:24:00 - [6] Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 15:24:59 Originally by: Soma Khan nc alt detected. indeed Nice try but no. Last alliance I was in was BDEAL, didn't suit me, left 5 months ago. I don't do PVE at all, took me a while to realise that PVE was the entire point of sov 0.0 - and it is I can pick out systems up North that are just as suspicious - its just that these 15 are ones where there's little to no argument to be had about occupancy levels being the reason. That's the reason for these. Oh and its worth noting that Dotlan goes back a LOT further than 48 hours......
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 16:12:00 - [7] Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 16:14:59 Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 16:13:20 Originally by: Soma Khan Originally by: Othran Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 15:24:59 I can pick out systems up North that are just as suspicious - its just that these 15 are ones where there's little to no argument to be had about occupancy levels being the reason. That's the reason for these. 'scuse me if that reasoning sounds a little too self-serving to me No problem, I can see how you'd be suspicious. Take a quick look through Dotlan yourself and pick your own top 15 based on npc kills over the last week. All I did to get those 15 was to only click red systems on dotlan, look at the last week/two weeks of npc kills/jumps and those were the most blatant. Edit 2 - with the exception of the Stain system. Nobody is going to convince me that CCP gives a damn until Stain is cleaned out. Edit - I could easily have made it a top 20 - or 50, just got bored. You feel the need, you go for it :) Do feel free to correct them - I'm sure there's plenty of cheating scum in whatever part of sov 0.0 you look at
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 16:31:00 - [8] Originally by: P3k1 Edited by: P3k1 on 14/12/2010 16:18:36 I really don't know how bots work. But if they are injecting packets in the ongoing connection between client and a server why just not encrypt the connection? At the end, I'm sure that CCP will do something about BOTs. Encrypting every connection would cost a lot of cpu cycles at CCPs end. You'd still need to secure the client as well. Not trivial and not free to anyone in terms of cost. I rather suspect CCP will do nothing. Oh sure they'll ban a few thousand accounts but that's the tip of the iceberg. The Eve economy seems to depend on massive influxes of "new" money which is created by missions/killing npcs. I think the simplest solution may well be to stop paying bounties for npc kills in 0.0. It makes no sense in any "in-game" way, and if any bounties should be paid then the controlling sov entity should be paying them. Loot drops would have to be tweaked accordingly - and the drone regions would need sorting so it was loot. Everyone is on about RMT and PLEX and mining macros. Forget that. None of that generates NEW isk. For every isk that enters the game through a bot running missions/ratting then the rest of the playerbase becomes poorer. I'm sorry that your economy requires bots to generate new ISK CCP, but if you stand back a little you'll see it needs fixing. To CCP : Of course your own revenue stream is intimately entwined with all of this as YOU made PLEX fully "in-game items". Hoist by your own petard or what?
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 17:04:00 - [9] Originally by: P3k1 Edited by: P3k1 on 14/12/2010 16:48:53 Originally by: Othran Encrypting every connection would cost a lot of cpu cycles at CCPs end. You'd still need to secure the client as well. Not trivial and not free to anyone in terms of cost. You don't have to encrypt everything, you can probably do checksums to see if there was any packet injection. Neither you or I can tell how much CPU cycle would take to process 60000+ connections/players. Probable solution: Place a dedicated machine just to cypher/decipher connections between server and a client. There is always a solution :) Either way someone should get one of those bots and see how they work, so you can criple them. Arrggghhhh matey! EDIT: Found link to tokens that I was talking about. link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_token I'm sure they have examples of bots - hell its not hard is it? Tokens - that's authentication, not encryption. Exchanging a token would (in theory) secure the client - simply run some of the critical files through a hash function. That has a client-side cost in cpu cycles and loading time. Depending on how the hash function is seeded its not 100% secure - it can be but remember this is just saying "hi, this is a real client" at login time. That doesn't secure the comms. The whole comms stream would have to be encrypted end to end as otherwise there is no point in encrypting anything. Its very do-able but it does have a significant cost in both development time, auth server/proxy cpu cycles and client cycles. Having said all that, it wouldn't stop most of the bots that are endemic to Eve anyway.
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 17:52:00 - [10] Originally by: Daneel Trevize Anyone suggested just capping the amount of isk a character can receive in bounties per day/hour/sliding window? Bots would be forced to rotate through accounts. But doesn't fix drones mineral drops? Drone mineral drops are meaningless. Mining bots are meaningless. Loot drops are meaningless. Why? They simply recycle the money already in the economy - there is no NEW isk being produced. Get a nice loot drop - you still have to sell it. Mine a million miles of veld - still need to sell it or what it builds. Missions and ratting are the only activities in the game that create brand new CLEAN isk from nothing. Null sec ratting is the ISK source (and RMT fountain) that needs dealing with most urgently. Simple reason is that a single system with a single bot can produce upwards of 10bill ISK a month. That's not ore you need to haul, nor loot you need to spam at Jita. That's GOLD. Just like every other game.
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 19:02:00 - [11] Originally by: FlameGlow Bot for minerals, build ships, insure ships, explode ships - there, new isk from nothing Quite true but utterly trivial in terms of what is going on regarding new isk creation from macro/botter ratters. Its also controllable by CCP - and yeah I know they've never been much use at insurance, was the first rollback in the game (June 2003 IIRC) when CCP bolloxed it up and everyone got rich that weekend.
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.14 19:14:00 - [12] Having seen this I give up : Worthy of any "we don't listen" regime Your choice CCP and seems like you made it.

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