| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sarkos
   |
Posted - 2005.01.16 13:35:00 -
[1]
Following a fierce and well fought battle, you are rewarded with the sight of your enemies vessel destructing. With adrenalin pumping you realizes that today, it is you who are victorious. Before you now sits a defensless lifepod, home to the individual that is your enemy. Do you attempt to target and destroy it? Why?
Life is a precious commodity and each of us a rare and unique individual. Many times however, because of the ebb and flow of politics, we find ourselves at odds. Conflict is the only answer to failed negotiations. I prefer negotiation over conflict, but accept war as unavoidable in many cases. In this vast universe, there are many diverse ideologies that can, and often time do force the need for battle. It is the way of things I fear.
I do not hate my enemies, they are much like myself, fighting for thier beliefs and ideals. Though I may hate what they choose to defend, I carry no personal hatred into battle. Often times I have learned to respect many I fight, and would situations be different, It's possible I would be sharing a drink with them.
So I ask again, why kill the lifepod of an already defeated enemy? You have emerged the victor in a battle of skills. Why is it nessessary to destroy the person now. Having defeated a foe and gained the victory, the glory of the win, why must you now destroy the person? Is it so honerable or glorious to kill a defenseless pod?
I say no. What would I achieve to actually kill my foe. They would need a new clone and possibly new implants. Big deal. If in Battleships, you have just caused a huge loss in ship, mods and weapons. The additional cost for a new clone is minor.
Out of respect for those I face in combat, I will never actively seek to destroy the life of those I fight. Once I have defeated them in combat, there is nothing else I need to prove. A salute to the defeated and knowledge that we will meet once again.
Now I am not speaking of pirates or griefers, I am speaking to those that destiny has deemed it nessessary to bring into direct conflict with myself. I speak of those men and woman that fight for thier own beliefs and loyalties, ones that bring them into conflict with my own beliefs and loyalties.
We are much alike, just people taking a stand for what we believe.
This is of course my personal feelings on the subject, and I am sure many would feel it foolish. I however fight for love of my people, and feel life is precious. Even the lives of the misguided.
Sarkos - Warrior and Philosopher
Voshoud of the Oracle tribe
Kuusa of the Tahiri
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
|
Hardin
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 14:00:00 -
[2]
Sarkos
Many in the CVA feel the same way. In fact a large number of PIE pilots do not pod kill on ethical grounds.
Indeed there is a debate in the CVA on this subject at present.
We did have a no-pod agreement with Oracle which generally worked. In the end however some, on both sides of the Amarr/Minmatar conflict, could not restrain themselves and insisted on their right to pod kill.
It became hard to distinguish between those who do pod and those who don't.
Now that alliances are in place this could be another opportunity for this subject to be revisited but it would need FULL agreement from both sides and I know that there are some on both sides who have strong views on this...
|
Joshua Foiritain
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 14:06:00 -
[3]
Pod killing allows you to gain tactical advantage over your enemy.
Either by:
a) Sending him back to a clone station far away, temporally removing him from the battlefield.
b) Permanently removing him from the battlefield. An enemy that canĘt fight cant kill you.
c) Destroying any expensive implants the pilot have which costs him money and can result in his new ship not being equipped as well.
That and some pilots just like doing it I guess.
---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 14:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Discorporation on 16/01/2005 14:17:17
 Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Pod killing allows you to gain tactical advantage over your enemy.
Either by:
a) Sending him back to a clone station far away, temporally removing him from the battlefield.
b) Permanently removing him from the battlefield. An enemy that canĘt fight cant kill you.
c) Destroying any expensive implants the pilot have which costs him money and can result in his new ship not being equipped as well.
That and some pilots just like doing it I guess.
Also, you get a physical trophy to show your friends (or stroke, if you're so inclined); a corpse.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Al Haquis
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 14:22:00 -
[5]
And lets not forget the bountys :).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Council Member, Tahiri Warrior
Masuat'aa Forums
|
Scaramouche
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 14:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hardin
Sarkos
Many in the CVA feel the same way. In fact a large number of PIE pilots do not pod kill on ethical grounds.
Indeed there is a debate in the CVA on this subject at present.
We did have a no-pod agreement with Oracle which generally worked. In the end however some, on both sides of the Amarr/Minmatar conflict, could not restrain themselves and insisted on their right to pod kill.
It became hard to distinguish between those who do pod and those who don't.
Now that alliances are in place this could be another opportunity for this subject to be revisited but it would need FULL agreement from both sides and I know that there are some on both sides who have strong views on this...
Ahem! 
Remember, only dead fish and broken sticks go with the flow. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 14:52:00 -
[7]
I don't think I've ever pod-killed anyone who was not a legitimate target as part of a contract war - however if someone pays me to do so, I am obligated by profession to inflict the most damage possible. It's widely known that being podded is sometimes so jarring and traumatic an experience that the pilot loses the stomach for space flight altogether...
|
Jasmine Constantine
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 15:07:00 -
[8]
Mostly I never pod-kill in combat because Its generally in the middle of an even fight with more hostiles involved and its a distraction I don't need to consider when searching for the next target. Jericho Fraction tends always to be outnumbered and outgunned in system and we really hardly ever have the time to finish with a pod-killing. That said, its also the case that if an enemy pilot is decent and well-spoken and fights with honour then its much less likely I'd end their lives than if they were a mannerless brat with poor personal standards.
I can see the logic of causing more harm on a victim with a pod-killing as making financial sense but really I guess it comes down to whether you are a soldier or a killer by choice.
My instincts are focused on shooting people who are a threat to me and my friends. A pod ceases to be a threat and consequentially is usually ignored. I'd like to think that some of my honourable enemies think the same but its really impossible to make assumptions like that in the dangerous universe we live in.
(always set your autopilot destination to a location via an exit other than the gate you are fighting at and click autopilot the moment your ship blows)
Star Fraction
|
Cmdr Patrick
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 16:04:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Cmdr Patrick on 16/01/2005 16:07:46
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Pod killing allows you to gain tactical advantage over your enemy.
Either by:
a) Sending him back to a clone station far away, temporally removing him from the battlefield.
b) Permanently removing him from the battlefield. An enemy that canĘt fight cant kill you.
c) Destroying any expensive implants the pilot have which costs him money and can result in his new ship not being equipped as well.
That and some pilots just like doing it I guess.
I agree with this dude.It also puts the "fear" into them i feel
INreality thoguh if you do not pod them-thy go dock if it is a system the regularly fight in then they go hop into a bigger badder ship fitted to take you down as they know what you are in and how you are fighting.Then come back and bite you in the ass...
|
Jonas Bane
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 17:38:00 -
[10]
Considering my clone station is also where I keep my bigger and badder ships, getting pod-killed allows me to get back into the fight sooner. With the new advanced learning skills, and skyrocketing price of implants, I generally don't bother with attribute enhancers anymore. This had made pod-killing more or less a non-issue. Sure it sucks to have to buy a new clone. But as Sarkos mentioned, after losing your ship a few million for a clone is nothing. =)
|
|
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 18:10:00 -
[11]
For the crimes these people have visited upon innocent peoples by enslaving them and denying their birthright of freedom, not to mention the toture done to many of them. I would kill every single CVA slaver i come across.
Every, single, one.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Horatio Starkiller
|
Posted - 2005.01.16 19:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Pod killing allows you to gain tactical advantage over your enemy.
Either by:
a) Sending him back to a clone station far away, temporally removing him from the battlefield.
b) Permanently removing him from the battlefield. An enemy that canĘt fight cant kill you.
Depends if you sending him to a station in system with a fully kitted ship ready. I'd say thats not if of an advantage.
-----------
|
Darax Thulain
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 08:09:00 -
[13]
The "defenseless" pod goes to punish some defenseless slaves if the ship was lost, why not go all the way? Its not like they dont deserve it..
Dont remember where I picked up this line but I think it fits : "If you kill one person, you're a murderer. If you kill a million, you're a conqueror"
So, if the the entire CVA refrained from podding us, and we kept podding them. Would that make us the villains..? Even if they have enslaved/killed our people in all these years? Would that be forgotten and the CVA made into heroes?
If we both refrained from podding, would we deprive the slaves of their vengeance against their captors? Many matari idolize the freedom fighters, would this "honorable" act be welcomed by them or be seen as weak, ineffective and old fashioned useless honor.
Darax Thulain
|
Scorpyn
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 09:29:00 -
[14]
Why podkill? Simple, one has to eat. When you're low on isk it's good to know that you still have some meat in the freezer.
|
Kendar Zek
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 09:41:00 -
[15]
I've had my pod destroyed for no reason before, aside from being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I understand that in war, it provides a coveted tactical advantage - attrition. Wanton destruction of pods seems unreasonable, but in a conflict such as that between the CVA and Ushra'Khan, any loss of a pod buys the opposing force time and may cost the pilot millions of ISK to get back into action.
When negotiations fail, this is the end result. How unfortunate for us all.
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 09:58:00 -
[16]
Unfortunately, there can be no negotiation with the CVA, their religon has succeeded in closing their minds and blinding them to the truth that is all around them.
As you can tell from there many talks on this summit, they are open to only one path, that which their Emporer orders them on.
In their supreme arrogance, their minds are closed.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Gaven Lok'ri
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 10:06:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gaven Lok'ri on 17/01/2005 10:06:35
Nay it is your minds who are closed.
Ours are just open to a force more powerful than that of any humans ability to truely understand. It is in essence our understanding that there is a higher purpose and goal in this universe that exalt the Amarr people higher than the races who have yet to open their eyes to God.
And you "freedom fighters" are ones to talk about closed minds, you who persist to fight a war that diplomatically ended over a century ago fueled by a bigoted hatred against all who serve God. Perhaps the repeated deaths of your mortal bodies will eventually clense you enough for you to see the truth and at the least give up your hopeless crusade.
Nobiscum Deus! Ave Doriam II! |
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 10:10:00 -
[18]
Ahh yes, more Amarrian propoganda along the lines of 'slaying the terrorists left right and centre'. I shall ignore such lies.
The rebellion has never ended. We still fight for our people, we have not forgotten them. No matter how much you beg us to stop, we wont, unlike yourselves Amarr, our people are everything to us.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Yaerav Aeyar
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 10:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Yaerav Aeyar on 17/01/2005 15:03:53
When podkilling, one cannot be sure what will happen to the poor heretic's soul: what comes back, is that still really the same creature who I killed before?
I do not like killing Minmatar. While their souls reside in this world, my brothers and sisters, abhorrent as they are, may still become enlightened.
Live to Serve
Serve to Grow
Grow to Ascend |
Jhodas
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 14:00:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Jhodas on 17/01/2005 14:06:47
Quote:
Gaven Lok'ri
Ours are just open to a force more powerful than that of any humans ability to truely understand. It is in essence our understanding that there is a higher purpose and goal in this universe that exalt the Amarr people higher than the races who have yet to open their eyes to God.
You are arrogant and self centered. Answer me this my dear friend, if your people are so exalted and enlightened, why did they enslave and degrade unthinkable numbers of another race? Why did they trade men, women and children like cattle? What is it that places you on a pedestal above everyone else? Is it because you fight for a God who's existence is based on faith? Does it make me less of a human than you because I fight for my family and friends instead? They are real my friend. My family are real, the pain and suffering of my ancestors was real and the amarrian blade that killed both my parents is real. I podkill as i see necessary and fit, because I am not afraid to face the consequences if and when they come. I will not rest until the owner of that blade is cold in the frozen void that is space. I am not afraid to pay for my sins.
Are you?
Clicky |
|
|
Tatsue Nuko
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 14:49:00 -
[21]
Sarkos,
the answer lies in the definition of war.
In war, your objective is to force someone's hand by causing maximum damage to them and their organization(s). Destroying capsules with pilot and eventual implants is one of many ways of achieving that goal.
I don't take pride in it. In fact, I may yet face situations where my duty calls for me to take the life of people that are held very dear to my heart. But that matters not. Duty is duty, and I would have no honor if I did not do what duty calls for me to do.
Also, I must say that someone like a self-proclaimed freedom fighter to bring this into discussion strikes me as blatant hypocrisy. You weep for the elite few that are mentally capable of operating capsules, but not for the thousands of crewmen - in your case most likely Matari crewmen - that die with your ships?
You have the stomach to decry the Amarr for a social order that puts some above others, while bringing up this shameful attempt at saving the skin of your present incarnation, labelling the slaying of thousands of your brothers as a simple "victory"?
Are you worth more than those valiant and sacrificing crewmen of yours?
You have no honor.
|
Tarm
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 16:34:00 -
[22]
Despite the ramblings and incessant whining of our enemies, we ARE actually discussing this issue on the CVA communication channel. I brought up the issue myself.
The intergalactic summit is a bad place to speak of such a topic, as the subject tends to lend itself beyond this reality. Many of us feel, contrary to popular terrorist belief, that podding our enemy would be dishonorable. I have taken part of podkilling before, and each time I felt as though I had been soiled by it. Many of us have said that we are going to refrain from podding our enemy, simply out of respect to the 'soul behind the body.' This description stretches the limits placed on us by the channel on which we are communicating, but you get the basic idea.
Try not to mix the hatred your 'body' feels with the feelings of the 'soul'. 
-------------------
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 16:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tarm
Despite the ramblings and incessant whining of our enemies
Oh dear. Such honour.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Tarm
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 17:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Oh dear. Such honour.
Did you miss the subject of my post? Hardin simply expained that we were considering the same prospect on the opposite side of the battlelines. The validity of his statement was questioned so I explained that, regardless of the scepticism of certain enemies, we ARE, in FACT talking of this same issue within our ranks.
-------------------
|
Bad Harlequin
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 17:27:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Bad Harlequin on 17/01/2005 17:28:05
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko
You weep for the elite few that are mentally capable of operating capsules, but not for the thousands of crewmen - in your case most likely Matari crewmen - that die with your ships?
My crews are all-volunteer. They know the risks, but it doesn't help the cold lump in the soul that forms when you know a ship is breaking up and there's nothing you can do to save them... but still, they volunteer. Former slaves, of course, but also academy 'dropouts' and others who tried and failed to become podpilots; all are there of their own free will.
Can the Amarr say this? Can the State? Can you?
Quote:
You have the stomach to decry the Amarr for a social order that puts some above others,
Not at all. We have the will to shoot the Amarr for enslaving, brutalizing, and exterminating our people. Take your amateur-hour Goodspeak elsewhere.
Quote:
while bringing up this shameful attempt at saving the skin of your present incarnation,
Sarkos does not podkill. Sarkos has been podkilled many times. Sarkos still does not podkill. Hope that clarifies things for you.
Quote:
You have no honor.
Come down here and say that again, Amarrian-lapdog scum. Don't lecture us about "principles" and "worth" until you have had some actual contact with same.
Hijacking officially over. As for the topic, Sarkos, it lies partly in your question: you talk about the value of life. Sadly, especially as the young lady with the foolish interjections above demonstrate, the cloning system has devalued the market value of life considerably, with ancillary effects spreading to the non-podded community. Plainspeak: it sucks.
For a few million isk (now that the technology is so common), one may discount preserving one's own life in combat nearly completely, except as tactically or logistically required. It's really rather bizarre.
As most have mentioned, taking out a clone is just another ship-part to destroy; deprive the enemy of resources, deny the enemy passage. Cloning technology has made it even easier to hold human life in the same regard as ammunition and materiel; regrettable if lost, but there to be expended and replenished. Even if there are no implants and no mental deficiencies upon transfer, one must buy a new clone... or 30 must in large engagements... 
Why podkill? I'm afraid the most common answer will be "why not?" and a blank expression.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 17:27:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 17/01/2005 17:28:53
Despite your incessant whining and moaning slaver, I heard the orignal point you were poorly trying to make clearly.
It astounds the mind how your kind got anywhere in this universe.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Tarm
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 18:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 17/01/2005 17:28:53
Despite your incessant whining and moaning slaver, I heard the orignal point you were poorly trying to make clearly.
It astounds the mind how your kind got anywhere in this universe.
Way to be an ass. Out of every one of the slaves, I figured YOU would be the one that would think this was a good initative. As the channel doesn't permit talking about an alternate reality, my argument is moot. We never asked Ushra'khan to abide by an ROE or anything of the sort, we merely pointed out we felt the same as a member of your own alliance. Next time I have your pod targetted it will take willpower not to press the fire button.
-------------------
|
Khaldorn Murino
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 18:05:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 17/01/2005 18:06:47
Slaver, do not presume to talk to me in such a way. That kind of discussion is not for this reality.
Before you burst and ruin your lavish golden ship, i was merely referring, in my original point, how honourable pilots seem always to need to put childish insults in their rantings.
And do not presume to threaten me slaver. You may hold off on my pod as long as you wish. I will eliminate any bodies of slavers I find hovering in space.
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
|
Tatsue Nuko
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 18:21:00 -
[29]
Harlequin,
My point is that Sarkos evidently regards himself as worthy of saving through special treaties with the enemy. He does not put the same value to his crew, yet it is himself, and not his crew, that can be reincarnated through cloning with competences intact. Whether he himself podkills or not, or has been podkilled or not, is completely irrelevant in this context. He wishes to save his own hide through special treaties, but does not feel that his crew is worthy of such cares.
He would shy away from a way of inflicting the enemies of your people harm, to save his own hide.
Thus, he has no honor.
I have not stated that life is rendered worthless because of cloning. I have stated that I find it pathetic that a self-labelled warrior would seek special measure to save his own hide when he has no qualms about sacrificing the lives of thousands upon thousands of people employed on his starships.
Those thousands of people volunteered for a service they know might cost them their lives. Sarkos apparently does not have the same strength of gut - and he is supposed to be their leader.
Thus, he has no honor.
I hope that clarifies my position for you.
|
Seto Mazzarotto
|
Posted - 2005.01.17 18:29:00 -
[30]
*wonders about the cost of staffing ships with replicas of himself...*
-----------
Fighting for the ideals of freespace, posthuman ethics, and rock & roll. |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |