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Rokh is Broken

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ImmutableDark	Posted - 2010.12.19 09:27:00 - [1] Possibly the least surprising thread out of all of the caldari ships are broken threads I'm going to make. I don't see the point in even justifying this thread at all because it is probably the most broken bs in the game at the moment and everyone knows it. Unsupported it has the performance of a tier 1 bs and supported it has the performance of a tier 2 bs. It needs something to web for it and it can't use web drones due to the lack of drone space and weakness of web drones and can't use a web due to the warp scrambler/disruptor using that slot. If you replace the cap booster in the setup I'm about to link with a web then you have another problem... you don't have a cap booster... http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/46451-Brawler-Rokh-Attempt-2.html#loadout Ok the theory is that a tier 3 blaster fit bs should be able to beat a tier 2 blaster bs hands down no contest because one costs more than the other and one is supposed to be better than the other. Sooo for this example I'm going to use the megathron. I chose a mega from battleclinic that didn't have any faction mods (even though it's stupid not to fit a mega like this) just so nobody complains about how I set it up. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/39565-Megathron-Non-faction-fit-heavy-close-range-PVP-Mega.html#loadout OK after testing you can get 900dps out of rokh if you play your cards right. Aye not bad for a caldari ship... never orbit in a caldari ship always approach at your optimal which in this case is 6k anything else you do is just too stupid to mention it cuts your dps amazingly. You should orbit ships of a higher class than what you're flying though i.e. orbit a cruiser in a frig etc. OK after testing pretty much no matter how you cut it you're going to get the full 1074 dps out of the megathron. Woo so which ship is going to win? No-overheat? I prefer to do this the compare ehp way you can do it the compare dps way but it doesn't look as cool. So basically what we do is divide the attacking ships effective dps by the other ships effective dps and multiply it by the attacking ships ehp then we compare the unbuffed ehp of the defending ship with the modified ehp of the attacking ship to see who wins. 1073/900*120572 = 143,748 ehp vs 128884 (no overheat) vs (144,827 overheat). So if you overheat both of your invulnerability fields you have a chance to beat a megathron by 1.1k ehp in an extremely ideal situation which tested doesn't happen 99% of the time do to the harsh realities of the viability of overheating invulnerability fields, and the fact that the megathron can dictate range due to it's web. The fix is to add a web slot to the rokh and buff it's ehp to bring it up to the tier 3 properties most tier 3 bses have. This would also make it a viable mission ship. Currently it is not even a tier 2 bs everyone knows why.
ImmutableDark	Posted - 2010.12.20 06:24:00 - [2] Originally by: Andrea Griffin WTB Thread about how the Ibis is broken too. Okay, Rokh isn't the best ship in the world, but it's best role is sniping. That it can do reasonably well. Reasonably well, not OMGWTFUBERPWN. The big underlying problem of Caldari gunboats isn't the ships themselves, really. It's hybrids being subpar overall. It's like the second worst sniper... and it costs more than better snipers... why are we even discussing this crawp?
ImmutableDark	Posted - 2010.12.21 03:05:00 - [3] If you buff hybrids you buff gallente pvp... gallente pvp isn't really crying out for a buff like caldari pvp is. Yes hybrids have horrible damage projection and this definetly needs a buff somewhere but basically not before caldari pvp gets one. The gallente are definitely capable of kicking our ass in every engagement it just costs them more isk. I don't see why the gallente whinge so much about caldari fleet pvp being overpowered (drake) all the time. That's the way it's supposed to be the caldari blob up to pwn you but in solo combat they get killed. Now the drake is the one caldari ship that can solo but is it better than the other solo bc's? Yeah it probably is... but that's really debateable I'm pretty sure a harb/hurricane/cyclone/brutix are in the same leage as an 82k ehp 560 dps drake which btw is the only way to fit a solo drake. Hams do horrible dps vs an unwebbed target so many fail drake fits out there... the "I'm too good for tackle" drake that has a bigger signature than your average battleship about the same ehp and half the dps ... melts to every bs fit and the lowest priority target in any engagement. Ever been like "HEY THIS DRAKE HAS NO DPS┐!?" it doesn't have a web. Missiles don't work like that if you speed up in any direction they do less dps... yah pvp lesson learned today.
ImmutableDark	Posted - 2010.12.21 11:52:00 - [4] Edited by: ImmutableDark on 21/12/2010 11:53:48 Edited by: ImmutableDark on 21/12/2010 11:52:39 Originally by: Diesel47 Edited by: Diesel47 on 21/12/2010 05:57:01 The rokh while not a bad ship, BUT it does have some major flaws that make no sense. Here are the two roles a rokh can play: Long range sniper and blaster boat. Keep in mind that the rokh is suppose to be the premiere/best/strongest/uber sniper BS in the game. Rokh needs a bigger drone bay. - To fit some wardens, it IS suppose to be the best sniper BS in the game. Should be able to fit some sniping drones. - When fitting for blasters, have atleast a set of hammerheads and hobs. One low slot needs to be moved to mid. Right now it is 8 - 6 - 5. Should be changed to 8 - 7 - 4. - The rokh will benefit greatly from an extra mid, four low slots are plenty for DCU and Magstabs. Mids can be used to fit a web in a blaster fit and can be used for some tank when using railguns (Mid slots taken up by sensor boosters, tracking computers, and microwarp etc). Last but not least: More Grid! - Premiere tier 3 sniper BS should be able to fit a full set of 425mm II's without fitting issues. That is just silly. That is all. You are stupid first of all, all I care about are final says on subjects and firstly there are a whole bunch of problems with what you've said compared to what I've said. Lets focus on the positive(experimental with me because I'm used to shooting people into the ground). - The Rokh is supposed to be the premier sniper. (this is true) The caldari are supposed to be the best at fleet pvp they aren't and this leaves Caldari Pilots with nowhere to go pvp-wise which is kind of why they have the best economy in hi-sec because nobody gets to low/null-sec you know (this sucks). They even nerfed the Caldari out of capital ship combat..... what...? It's ****ing stupid is my point. Things you're wrong about: - The Rokh is supposed to be the anti-battleship t1 battleship i.e. you have to scale up to beat caldari ships. You know they have the signature radius of the next thing up and don't do anywhere near as much dps therefore die instantly kind of thing. (shield tanking target paints you) This was originally the EVE game desing but seriously the game designers after that sucked major balls and gave into pressure from derps on the forums and EVE turned into WoW. It's full of fail atm. - Don't move the low slots to mid this nerfs the rokhs dps ... wtf are you doing... we need a web slot with the same dps to bring the rokh up to tier 2 but it's a tier 3 battleship. Nobody has compared the Rokh to a tier 3 battleship yet I think that's justification enough to assume that it's not tier 3 and make CCP give the Caldari a tier 3 battleship after 3 years of NOT. More Grid... The Rokh has plenty of grid CPU to go around sometimes I think too much... nothing needs that grade of fitting for that performance. A better idea would be to get some performance out of the massive fitting the rokh is capable of.... clearly this is not the case.
ImmutableDark	Posted - 2010.12.21 13:32:00 - [5] Edited by: ImmutableDark on 21/12/2010 13:34:55 Originally by: Diesel47 Originally by: ImmutableDark Edited by: ImmutableDark on 21/12/2010 11:53:48 Edited by: ImmutableDark on 21/12/2010 11:52:39 You are stupid first of all, all I care about are final says on subjects and firstly there are a whole bunch of problems with what you've said compared to what I've said. Lets focus on the positive(experimental with me because I'm used to shooting people into the ground). - The Rokh is supposed to be the premier sniper. (this is true) The caldari are supposed to be the best at fleet pvp they aren't and this leaves Caldari Pilots with nowhere to go pvp-wise which is kind of why they have the best economy in hi-sec because nobody gets to low/null-sec you know (this sucks). They even nerfed the Caldari out of capital ship combat..... what...? It's ****ing stupid is my point. Things you're wrong about: - The Rokh is supposed to be the anti-battleship t1 battleship i.e. you have to scale up to beat caldari ships. You know they have the signature radius of the next thing up and don't do anywhere near as much dps therefore die instantly kind of thing. (shield tanking target paints you) This was originally the EVE game desing but seriously the game designers after that sucked major balls and gave into pressure from derps on the forums and EVE turned into WoW. It's full of fail atm. - Don't move the low slots to mid this nerfs the rokhs dps ... wtf are you doing... we need a web slot with the same dps to bring the rokh up to tier 2 but it's a tier 3 battleship. Nobody has compared the Rokh to a tier 3 battleship yet I think that's justification enough to assume that it's not tier 3 and make CCP give the Caldari a tier 3 battleship after 3 years of NOT. More Grid... The Rokh has plenty of grid CPU to go around sometimes I think too much... nothing needs that grade of fitting for that performance. A better idea would be to get some performance out of the massive fitting the rokh is capable of.... clearly this is not the case. Alright look here kiddy, you don't go around calling people stupid if you are an idiot yourself. Addendum: You are a moron. CCP is not going to add another mid slot to the rokh because it will give the rokh +1 slots over all the other tier 3 battleships. If anything they will change a low to a mid. Be reasonable. The rokh needs more grid, it cannot fit a full rack of 425mm II's without giving up a low for a reactor control II. (Something you'd know if you actually flown the ship.) And the problem with the rokh's DPS sucking is a problem with railguns.. Not because it has (Or will have) not enough low slots. Hybrids need a fix, not the rokh. And how am I wrong about signature radius again? I don't remember even mentioning that. The railgun fix is a fricken gallente projecting through idiots thing... no offense you need your brain checked. The rokh is clearly not a tier 3 ship FIX IT is my simple message if you have a problem with that then pick a fight with me otherwise shut the f up. The midslot suggested fix was to bring it up to tier 2 level... that's how broken the ship is.
ImmutableDark	Posted - 2010.12.21 14:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Diesel47 Edited by: Diesel47 on 21/12/2010 13:43:56 Originally by: ImmutableDark The railgun fix is a fricken gallente projecting through idiots thing... no offense you need your brain checked. The rokh is clearly not a tier 3 ship FIX IT is my simple message if you have a problem with that then pick a fight with me otherwise shut the f up. The midslot suggested fix was to bring it up to tier 2 level... that's how broken the ship is. All Tier 3 BS are balanced in amount of slots. Rokh isn't going to get an extra one, sorry stop being an idiot. Powergrid needs to be addressed, drone bay needs to be addressed, and too many low slots needs to be addressed. DPS problem is because of the railguns. Those fixes wont change anything you obviously haven't done your homework. If I added the shield tanking/slot thread and the caldari sensor strength is broken thread you might have a different opinion on the subject.... but all you seem focused on is generic diatribe.
ImmutableDark	Posted - 2010.12.23 07:29:00 - [7] It's still broken.

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