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Keith Deteisrich
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Posted - 2010.12.20 00:39:00 -
[1]
The Manticore Stealth bomber is my latest addition to a long and growing list of what I call "EVE Dead Ends". Ya know, when you take all the time (weeks) training skills to be able to open a new era and maybe possibly find -anything- at all to do in EVE? You're excited to hear "Skill Training Completed! (If you're not asleep) and you suddenly learn why it was a waste of time.
So, the first lesson I learned is that you can't launch bombs anywhere in 1.0, 0.9, 0.8, 0.7, 0.6, 0.5, 0.4, 0.3, 0.2, 0.1. Only in 0.0. That makes sense since I guess a large bomb is FOF?
Okay so you head to 0.0 cloaked. A little exciting as some people quick at the mouse button tried to target lock me. That's enough to make you spill your beer. So I find a target, move in, uncloak and drop the bomb and suddenly I'm in my pod and then pod killed. The dude took out the Manticore with just three tiny rockets. So there's the dead end. The Manticore is too weak to be of use.
The only useful thing I found was using a Manticore for can baiting. The problem now is that I've been told that you can't can bait in a "Newbie System" and I don't know which ones they are so there's another dead end. Don't want to be doing something against the rules. It seems like 9 out of 10 people that steal can bait are in newbie ships which is totally pointless to blow up cause it makes you look like a jerk on killboards. Of the few frigates you can get, the Manticore is so weak that it can be popped by a Merlin with just three rockets.
Does anyone have any practical use examples for a Manticore?
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.12.20 00:44:00 -
[2]
It's a highly specialised ship. It's mostly useful in groups, though there was a guy some time ago who posted about his solo bomber activities - he was very selective of which targets to take on though, and used advanced pvp tactics.
As you have noticed, stealth bombers are paper-thin. The slightest mistake will be the end of your ship.
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Keith Deteisrich
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Posted - 2010.12.20 00:56:00 -
[3]
"Paper thin" is a good way of putting it that's for sure.
The Buzzard is just as weak, which I know that's designed for probe scanning.
So I guess the only Covert Ops Cloaked ship that it would be reasonably safe to PvP in
would be the extremely expensive as in out of reach Level III Tengu?
I'm tempted to train all the skills to get up to a Tengu but I'm almost sure there's
another dead end to be found there too. Hehehe
 Originally by: Estel Arador
It's a highly specialised ship. It's mostly useful in groups, though there was a guy some time ago who posted about his solo bomber activities - he was very selective of which targets to take on though, and used advanced pvp tactics.
As you have noticed, stealth bombers are paper-thin. The slightest mistake will be the end of your ship.
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Obedient Slavegirl
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Posted - 2010.12.20 01:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Keith Deteisrich
Does anyone have any practical use examples for a Manticore?
Yes, you dock it inside that station in Jita where you play "bored stokebroker" and make 1 plex in 3 days by manipulating the market... right. So, instead of a bunch of family photos you ll have a nice spaceship poster in your office.
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Hooligan Tool
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.20 01:04:00 -
[5]
You learned an important lesson: Bombers are best used against battleship-sized targets. Bombs don't hit anything smaller than that very well, unless the target is MWD-ing. Torpedoes are the same way. And bombers generally have no tank.
In most cases, stealth bombers are only good in small groups where six of them can all launch bombs at the same time to take out multiple battleship-sized targets. Twenty-four bombers (four squads of six) did this and destroyed over one hundred battleships while the big ships were waiting for a jump bridge to be fueled.
Best way to do it: Line up your target with a celestial right behind it. Decloak at 31km or so, drop bomb, warp. Bomb will still go off even though you're not there to see it.
They can also be used effectively by flinging torpedoes at battleships. Again, groups do better with this method.
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Ambush.
Hit and run.
Gank before tank.
Speed is life. |
Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.20 01:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Keith Deteisrich
"Paper thin" is a good way of putting it that's for sure.
The Buzzard is just as weak, which I know that's designed for probe scanning.
So I guess the only Covert Ops Cloaked ship that it would be reasonably safe to PvP in
would be the extremely expensive as in out of reach Level III Tengu?
I'm tempted to train all the skills to get up to a Tengu but I'm almost sure there's
another dead end to be found there too. Hehehe
The idea of running an effective Bomber groups is all about Alpha. You uncloak, drop bombs then hurl Torps.
With enough Bombers you can take down a target before they respond. People also bring them on standard roams as a scout and DPS support using the range bonus. It is heavy dmg at a distance against bigger targets that can not engage quick enough before you GTFO.
Bombers are incredibly effective in both Bomber, Recon and standard gangs. They are a staple of 0.0 warfare and for a ship that is invisible you see them a lot.
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Originally by: NoNah
I'm afraid you can't really expect a decent answer as the new generation of posters arrived. Alara and her merry crew just isn't that interested in anything constructive.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.20 01:18:00 -
[7]
Most bombers make the mistake of hanging around too long. Make your run and GTFO.
If you see a Dominix, sentry drones, or anything smaller than a battlecruiser, don't even bother, just find another target.
My current favorite PvP ship is still my Manticore. Haven't managed a kill yet after many bombing runs, but haven't lost it either. I'm still working on my skills and attack strategies.
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Marak Mocam
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Posted - 2010.12.20 01:37:00 -
[8]
As others have stated, it's more a group use ship versus a solo ship. If you want more solo capabilities with a covert ops cloak, either go with your Tengu or a recon ship. Both can work decently for solo work and a recon doesn't carry the sticker-shock of a Tengu.
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Keith Deteisrich
"Paper thin" is a good way of putting it that's for sure.
The Buzzard is just as weak, which I know that's designed for probe scanning.
So I guess the only Covert Ops Cloaked ship that it would be reasonably safe to PvP in
would be the extremely expensive as in out of reach Level III Tengu?
I'm tempted to train all the skills to get up to a Tengu but I'm almost sure there's
another dead end to be found there too. Hehehe
The idea of running an effective Bomber groups is all about Alpha. You uncloak, drop bombs then hurl Torps.
With enough Bombers you can take down a target before they respond. People also bring them on standard roams as a scout and DPS support using the range bonus. It is heavy dmg at a distance against bigger targets that can not engage quick enough before you GTFO.
Bombers are incredibly effective in both Bomber, Recon and standard gangs. They are a staple of 0.0 warfare and for a ship that is invisible you see them a lot.
Actually you can be better off launching torps then bomb. This way, your "waiting for torps to land" starts earlier and you can warp once the bomb is launched. It's a technique gig that some use vs bombs first -- different approach is all.
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Sacram344
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Posted - 2010.12.20 03:10:00 -
[9]
read through this thread, it extensively covers the same topic: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1411029
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2010.12.20 03:11:00 -
[10]
idk, a bomb does upwards of 6000 damage to a battleship, or 100 battleships, depending on distance
there is a bomb that drains cap as well.
if u watched AT8 you will see a lot of SB win setups
you can use SB's effectively in lowsec, just no bombs, torpedoes on a frigate with a TP or 2 will make short work on almost anything
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.20 20:07:00 -
[11]
They are like WWII submarines... designed to pick off the easiest targets while avoiding fights with anything that could kill them. Your mistake was engaging a frigate -- the absolute worst matchup for a stealth bomber.
As others have mentioned, they are most often used in groups, and are excellent in skilled Black Ops gangs. (There's a notorious group called Dirt Nap Squad that got me once with a fleet of bombers bridged in by Black Ops.) However, they can also be decent solo ships, as long as you're smart enough to pick the right targets. You could set up a catch bubble in 0.0 and cloak and wait for defenseless haulers or impotent battleships to get caught, merely staying cloaked if dangerous enemies sprung the trap. You can also use a torpedo-equipped stealth bomber to stalk your war targets' mining ships in highsec.
Pro tip: You can also use a stealth bomber for 0.0 ratting. Same tactic as in PVP: kill the battleship rats, but run away from the frigate and destroyer rats.
...
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Culmen
Caldari
Blood Phage Syndicate
Syndicate.
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Posted - 2010.12.20 22:22:00 -
[12]
What is a stealth bomber for?
Moments like this.
Nothing further need be said.
Well except red highlighted ships were destroyed.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Hooligan Tool
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.21 04:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 20/12/2010 22:26:47
What is a stealth bomber for?
Moments like this.
Red highlighted ships were destroyed.
The BS were clustered on a jump bridge that was out of fuel (hence why the hauler i there)
Nothing further need be said.
Yeah, that was the bomber versus battleship incident I mentioned. I used to have a character in Initiative Mercenaries (who later 'graduated' to The Initiative.) who was present at the op but didn't participate. It was much fun watching the carnage that those little ships could unleash.
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Ambush.
Hit and run.
Gank before tank.
Speed is life. |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.12.21 05:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 21/12/2010 06:00:16
Two things ...
1) Most ships in EVE could be considered a "dead end" in that they have a designed purpose - and while performing that purpose - are not as good at doing other things they were not designed for.
2) Most ships in EVE require not merely the training of the skill book - but some level of player experience as well - in order to use them properly. When going against other players - as opposed to rats - that level of experience is usually acquired at the cost of a number of ships. The sequence goes like this:
a) Train Skill Book, buy and equip ship.
b) Engage in PVP combat - do no real damage and get destroyed.
c) Engage in PVP combat - do no real damage - but escape destruction.
d) Engage in PVP combat - do some real damage and maybe or maybe not escape destruction.
e) Engage in PVP combat - kill something and maybe or maybe not escape destruction.
f) Engage in PVP combat - kill something and usually escape destruction.
At this point - you're a skilled veteran who knows how to use their weapons and can effectively employ them to the enemies detriment.
Notice - that there was a lot of not escaping destruction that went into this process ...
Being a skilled veteran at using one weapon - does not necessarily guarantee a pain free transition to a different weapon - and usually much the opposite. It helps ... but ... there's usually a repeat of that ... not escaping destruction part ... until you learn how to effectively use the new weapon you're trying to employ.
Now - this is true of every MMO I've ever played.
So - unless you're just trolling - take the ****ing time to learn how to use your weapon before you just write it off. Part of which - is learning how your weapon really works - as opposed to how you wished or thought it worked.
At one time the major knock against SB's was that they could not warp cloaked. They got a buff on that and now they can. They have vulnerabilities - but then so does everything else. You simply have to learn to use ANYTHING such that you maximize it's advantages and minimize it's weaknesses. If other players can do that - and you can't - then the problem can be found by looking in a flat, reflective surface ... not by blaming your weapon because you're no good.
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Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Eastman Color
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Posted - 2010.12.21 12:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Keith Deteisrich
The dude took out the Manticore with just three tiny rockets.
How close were you?
Rockets hit at like 10km...
If you're bombing someone you want to launch the bomb from 30km and warp off once the bomb's been launched.
What ship were you attacking?
You're best bet for solo pvp in a manticore is to aim at bs's/mining barges/industrials, get in under the bs's guns and go as fast as you can.
Kill it then run away and cloak.
You'll get to learn your targets and it'll be a hoot
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Blackhuey
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Posted - 2010.12.21 12:49:00 -
[16]
There are some ships in Eve that you warp in, lock, press guns and wait for the other guy to die. The bomber is not like that, and requires tactics, patience, planning and a willingness to lose it every time you warp on grid.
A single bomb is not an i-win button, and unless you're targeting destroyers/interdictors or a frigate with a MWD on, you're not insta-popping anything. However a solo bomb followed by a long point and torpedoes is a very scary prospect for cruiser size targets and even poorly flown battleships. You can even take out a MWDing interceptor with a bit of planning.
Search for Valadeya's guide to see what's possible in a solo bomber, in lowsec as well as nullsec.
In a gang the bomber is incredible. A bomber gang with a black ops battleship and some covert cyno covops is incredible squared.
Win or lose, they are a lot of fun for those who put the effort into understanding their limitations and strengths.
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Opusmind Hauler
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Posted - 2010.12.22 14:15:00 -
[17]
This blog (Wormhole Killer) inspired me to train for the SB (Hound): http://wormholekiller.blogspot.com/
Read it from the begining so you get an idea of the learning/experience progress with the SB.
Besides some very funny blogs, it's extremely learningfull.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.12.22 15:41:00 -
[18]
Keith if you haven't done so yet, join a pirate corp.
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yopparai
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Posted - 2010.12.22 21:24:00 -
[19]
Another fun thing to do is drop a bomb on a gate camp when they have all their drones in space. plenty of pretty little explosions.
Yopp
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Eastman Color
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Posted - 2010.12.23 12:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: yopparai
Another fun thing to do is drop a bomb on a gate camp when they have all their drones in space. plenty of pretty little explosions.
Yopp
It's funnier if you and 40 mates can do exactly the same but on their jump bridge just as they bridge in to system ;)
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