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Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.23 17:30:00 - [1] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida As said numerous times before, ECM should be in game, but not in a state where 2/3rds of all ships are rendered useless in its presence. No, no it shouldn't. Control removal or disabling (ie "Stunlock") effects have a storied history of screwing up MMO combat. Other than EvE, I can't think of one offhand which includes that sort of effect and hasn't put in a 'diminishing returns' style system in order to try to salvage a mechanic which sounds good on paper, but is so easily abusable. ECM is a poor mechanic, and should be replaced with something else. Increased activation times maybe? To be honest I'm not sure exactly what to replace it with. "Lore" would assume that it would be something good against the Gallente (just as the Gallente sensor damper bonuses counter Caldari range)... but what Ewar would work well against drones? ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.23 20:44:00 - [2] Originally by: Buzz Killingdon Looks like you've got no way to counter that argument. Slippery slope is a slippery slope. If CCP nerfs everything that is percieved to be overpowered by a small group of players, what won't they nerf? What's next, Learning Skills? ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.23 21:54:00 - [3] Originally by: Tippia His argument is that all ewar removes, impedes, and/or diminishes some of the functionality of the ship it's used on. Are you saying that it doesn't? His arguments also keep equating having a module or role countered with having any ship in any role all but completely removed from the fight. There is a serious difference in the scope of EWar modules, and ECM is an order of magnitude ahead in that regard. ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.23 22:50:00 - [4] Grim, I'm confused. How is the small gang tactical advantage of 'bring ECM' not countered by the large gang option of 'bring (more) ECM'? ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.24 03:42:00 - [5] Perhaps my grasp of the english language is leaking out through the pores in my ass, but this is what I've been reading. Buzz: ECM helps small gangs Suitonia: No it doesn't Grimpak: ECM helps small gangs if you 'prepare accordingly' Luminos: lolwut? Grimpak: ECM doesn't help small gangs Luminos: .... ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.24 15:26:00 - [6] Originally by: Suitonia Is ECM balanced in the big picture when considering all sizes of ships, and a sizable fleet, yes. Which would be why CCP felt the need to make super-caps immune to it, right? ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.24 23:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Omara Otawan I'm afraid its not as simple. ECM works on very few specialized ships. Not exactly. ECM is very effective on a few select ships and even in an unbonused ship provides a 10-20% reduction in effectiveness on a long enough fight. In shorter fights you don't get that kind of averaging, but (for instance) in a frigate brawl you've got a 20%+ chance of starting the fight with a 10 second head start. And by "long enough fight", means more than 30 seconds. Consider unbonused Multispectral I vs Thorax. Chance of getting at least one successful ECM vs Cruiser Hull after (estimated): 0 sec: 13% 10 sec: 25% 20 sec: 35% 30 sec: 44% 40 sec: 51% 50 sec: 58% ECM is broken; this kind of mechanic almost always is. While it might not be gamebreaking, the only reasoning I've seen so far for keeping the mechanic is that CCP doesn't provide other ways (short of overwhelming DPS) to counter heavy Logistics. ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.25 00:58:00 - [8] Edited by: Luminos on 25/12/2010 01:06:14 Originally by: Kai Yuen You bring Arazus and they bring Falcons. Damped falcons don't jam much and falcons inside of close lock range die quickly. Falcons are only at their best sitting at a comfortable 70-80km from the fight. So the Falcon having to come in from 70km to 64km (about as far as a single Arazu can damp it down to, assuming the Falcon doesn't start to see a patter emerging and put on a single Sensor Booster...) is going to make the it spontaneously combust? Yes, I know, I forgot to swap over to range scripts. Overall the utility of using an Arazu's entire mid rack to cancel out an ECM boat seems less useful than bringing your own Falcon to disable more ships... but I'm going to quit while I'm ahead on this one. Or the fact the Curse will have to slow-boat 30-40km just to get into Neut range. Though I'm sure the Falcon will be more than happy to not lock the Curse down immediately so as to allow that. Fair play and all. ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.25 17:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Omara Otawan Now I wouldnt advocate the Arazu as the be-all-end-all counter to falcons, but it can work rather well and has a lot of other uses. But is it as useful as a Falcon? Hell, is it even as good a counter against Falcons as the Falcon itself is? If you're in a 30-ship fleet, then who cares? Bring both! But as the group gets smaller and you have to start cutting EWar spots which one are you going to leave behind? ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.31 03:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Willl Adama Oh man, don't ya'all just hate it when that rapier decloaks and target paint ya all to **!? I mean like WTF u can't do **!!! That's the funny bit: TP is really the only ewar that doesn't have a counter-module. As far as the gunnery equation is concerned the Painter performs the same combat role as the Webifier. So technically the counter module to the Target Painter is the Afterburner. ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.

Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2010.12.31 04:26:00 - [11] Fair enough, stopping your ship is a perfectly effective way of negating the bonus of painting as well. For missle damage, it's still correct if the explosion radius is less than the signature of the ship (assuming of course the missle damage formula I've got is right). If the radius is bigger than your target, then chances are very good the afterburner is many times more effective at negating missle damage than your target painters are at increasing it. ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2011.01.01 02:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Pod Amarr Or people just target paint for the hell of it? Basically, yes. ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.
Luminos Durid is 4 Fite	Posted - 2011.01.02 05:59:00 - [13] That ECM is currently the premier anti-RR module isn't actually an argument to keep it. ECM is a bad mechanic and should be removed. If that leaves a hole in the strategy in which Remote Repping becomes the 'be-all-end-all', then it is an issue to be adressed by implementing a mechanic to counter it which isn't broken. ______ I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye.

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