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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
30
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Moreover, you only need one boosting character for a fleet of virtually any size. It's dumb to say that OGBs are a boost to small gangs when it's far easier for a blob to have boosts.
Having ganglinks gives your small gang more of a margin between being overwhelmed and holding a strategic position, even with both sides running links it still gives you a broader field to play in. It won't make up for lack of skill or negate the advantage of having a bigger, better gunned fleet, but it does give a smaller fleet, especially one pushing their skillset to the limits, more of a chance of making a good account of themselves against a bigger foe.
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
30
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Kahega Amielden wrote:
Moreover, why don't you just fly more expensive ships? Instead of trying to fight outnumbered against ships of your own class (which is folly unless you outplay the hell out of your opponents), why don't you just fly something shinier or bigger...Fly a rupture into a small gang of t1 frigates? Send a Hurricane against a couple cruisers.
This is the typical behaviour of the OGB user in lowsec areas. Pretend to be prey, then proceed to demolish the unfortunate dudes who couldn't have possibly known that he's tanking about twice as much as he should while moving 50% faster.
If your looking for a fair fight your in the wrong game... whats next nerf cynos?
Very few people use ganglinks to get an even bigger advantage over weaker prey anyhow, not to say no one does it, but most people use ganglinks to compliment their fleet capabilities or to give them a chance against harder foes. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
30
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
[quote=Kahega Amielden]Quote:
Example? How does everyone on the field having 30% more shield HP, or more velocity, or longer point range, tip the scales in favor of a small gang?
It gives you a bigger margin to play with - even when both sides are using it - which gives more room for mistakes to be made, more room for manouverability, etc. i.e. if your both pointing to 50km instead of 25km that means you can sit well outside the close range high damage turret ships and instead of getting instantly melted you can probe for weaknesses and try to pick stuff off, etc. - or atleast if you can't, your not forced into a close range commitment you never had any chance of winning and have a chance to GTFO and fight another day. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
30
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:
You seem to be talking about the relative benefits of Loki speed/point range boosts when the small gang consists of nanoships and the blob consists of slow, close-range ships. The advantage to the small gang in your example comes from the fact that ships that take full advantage out of kiting close range high damage ships and pointing from far away happen to benefit most from a certain type of boost.
Now imagine the same situation except everyone has Tengu boosts. The nanogang still goes down fast if they get tackled or become trackable, and the 30% extra shield HP doesn't change that...But any individual ships that get separated from the group take longer to kill, and they have more time to fill weak points. In the same situation, Tengu boosts would advantage the blob far more than the small gang.
I'm talking about one example of many possible ones and it doesn't always work out in your favor, but in the position of smaller fleet V blob you'd be making use of the links that gave you the most chances to control range and get out if your overwhelmed.
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
31
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:
And with Loki boosts the larger gang has a better chance of running you down and stopping you from getting away. I fail to see the advantage.
A better chance yes but you still have a bigger field to play on, ultimately its not gonna make a much smaller gang massively more potent against a bigger one but it does give you a lot more chances.
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
31
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Posted - 2012.08.15 19:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:Bullshit or not, in the immediate future the game would be worse without off grid boosts. So let's see if we can come up with a list of problems that should be solved first. I guess I can't count on you for any sort of reasonableness on this subject though.
The game as it stands would be better without boosts at all...And if certain command ships were underpowered to the point that they weren't used, it would still be an improvement over the current situation. The only reason why I would call for a rebalance first rather than just nerfing them into the ground until they can be fixed is that it would be unfair to the people who currently have SP in leadership and dumped ISK into CS/boosting t3s.
I think your playing the wrong game... otherwise you'd better start calling to nerfs to implants, cynos, cloaking devices, etc. to.
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
31
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Posted - 2012.08.15 19:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
I still don't see whats wrong with POS boosting, if your hitting someone in their home system its kind of expected they have the home field advantage and if your really that bothered about it and just looking for a fight, move the fight one system over or something. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
31
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Posted - 2012.08.15 20:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Diesel47 wrote:I've always thought boosting inside a POS was broken though. It is. The problem lies with Rorqual pilots, but I don't see a problem with making non-combat links work through a POS shield or, crazy thought, having some consequences for ALL off-grid boosting. Off-grid boosting needs to have risk and consequences attached to it. As it stands, there is no risk or consequences for boosting through a POS shield.
Some people also boost from POS for PVE, etc.
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
31
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Posted - 2012.08.15 21:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:
There should be risks and consequences for those people as well. Combat boosting shouldn't work through POS shields. There should be risk involved in providing such a huge boost to your combat capabilities.
What about things like implant sets?
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
32
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Posted - 2012.08.17 17:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
If I can agree on most of your proposals I wouldn't like to see those links be fitted in whatever ship. We need new small hulls able to do this why not a New destroyer?
Providing buffs to gangs/fleets whatever should require dedication, at least some dedication.
Over all I like your ideas.
I disagree with putting them on ships that small - way to easy to alpha'd out the fight - but some new tier3 command ships that can only boost on-grid wouldn't go amiss - i.e. the Gallente infowar booster should be based on the vexor/ishtar hull, get many of the bonuses the ishtar does (but lose the drone range bonus) get slightly higher base resists and say 5800 base shields and armor plus keep the slot layout of the ishtar so it can be run in either armor or shield fleets - also increased capacitor to match the eos. Base Signature should be around 200-240 or so but have a signature reduction bonus per level in command ships that brings it down to about 115 with command ships V. Can use 3 links simultaneously maybe 5% racial, 3% non-racial bonuses for on-grid. With a similiar sort of theme for the others - the min and gal ones capable of shield and armor tanking ok and getting sig reduction bonus per level and the cal and amarr ones getting a racial tank bonus along the lines they have now with a HP and resist bonus per level.
EDIT: Tho I can see the point about ship type lock-in which is another reason why removing off-grid boosting isn't a great idea at the moment... it could freshen up destroyers if they could fit 1 link I guess. |
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