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Edward Olmops	Posted - 2010.12.27 10:19:00 - [1] Edited by: Edward Olmops on 27/12/2010 10:24:18 Edited by: Edward Olmops on 27/12/2010 10:19:31 Even in HiSec, Mining ships with identical flight patterns 23/7 are getting on my nerves. In LowSec it's swarms of frigates pilotes by trial pilots with dubious names that do L1 courier missions all day long. Here is another proposal to get rid of this: Confront pilots with something that can't be automated that easily. Many internet-based services use images (displaying some warped characters with lots of noise the user has to identify) to ward off bots. Why not try the same in EVE? This has to be included into the game in a way it does not get on the nerves of regular players. This could happen at random times OR Make it a special form of attack: if I suspect someone to be a bot, I can use some form of "virus" or "jammer" to test him. The pilot then gets a warning that his ship is being hacked. If the pilot fails to prove he's real, he will be flagged criminial (and can be killed without any CONCORD interference). Obviously this should only trigger if the ship tries anything except autopiloting or simply sitting somewhere. (to effectively stop 0.0 bots, the penalty would have to include shutdown of the ship, simply flagging a ship criminal won't help much) ------- Random tests could represent malfunctioning ship systems. Even if this only happens once every few hours, it could severely cripple the efficiency of any bot, if the ship will sit in 0.0 helplessly (i.e. ignoring all input except to the test) until tended manually - could even be that normal NPC rats will take care of it!
Gemberslaafje Vivicide	Posted - 2010.12.27 10:35:00 - [2] CAPTCHA has been suggested numerous times, and it won't help. Firstly because the botters will just crack the CAPTCHA, secondly because you'll annoy real miners. However, I do see some merit in the player-based suspect-bot instant virus thing; have someone tested WITHOUT direct GM interference (e.g. make a petition, wait for a few weeks, then be told that there was nothing in the logs) could be interesting. Of course, it shouldn't be something which could be abused or used in PvP, so it would need some more thought. --- Creator of the Eve Character Appraiser/Assembler: http://gemblog.nl/skill/ http://gemblog.nl/assembler/ Originally by: De'Veldrin Welcome to the ****ing sandbox
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.12.27 11:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Edward Olmops Make it a special form of attack: if I suspect someone to be a bot, I can use some form of "virus" or "jammer" to test him. The pilot then gets a warning that his ship is being hacked. If the pilot fails to prove he's real, he will be flagged criminial (and can be killed without any CONCORD interference). How do I prove I'm real? How long do I have to prove I'm real? A hulk rigged for cargo capacity can be busily mining for around 9 minute before the player has to pay any attention to the game. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Edward Olmops	Posted - 2010.12.27 12:47:00 - [4] Edited by: Edward Olmops on 27/12/2010 12:48:38 What about this: Suspecting a player (i.e. using the jammer/virus whatever) has a cost (>>2950 ISK!). Maybe you need a special item that has limited charges that need to be manufactured/bought. So spamming suspicions for fun is a costly thing. If you are tested, you are being presented an image generated by the server that depicts any ship (as when you view the model, from a random angle and distance). You get a choice of 3 or 4 ships and have to select the correct one. - any noob can identify the ships (if you have them linked to the 3D-views) - a trained EVE pilot will be able to pass the test in less than 10 seconds - if colors/textures are either removed or set to some standard, it should be pretty hard for a machine to reliably pass the test (coming from image recognition business, I know what I am speaking of :-D) - no 3rd party hacks for character recognition will work You are NOT informed when a test is due, it will not affect you as long as you don't try to do anything. Continuous mining, autopiloting or sitting afk would be ok. Your client will notice nothing about that a test is due. But as soon as you activate/deactivate any modules, warp or dock/undock, you are challenged with the test. So it will only affect you when you are/pretend to be at the screen piloting. If you pass, everything is fine. If you fail: no warping, no cloaking and you are criminal or something like that.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.27 12:54:00 - [5] the fun way will be to have sansha incursions camp the gates and belts in affected high sec systems
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.27 13:23:00 - [6] Originally by: Edward Olmops Edited by: Edward Olmops on 27/12/2010 12:48:38 What about this: Suspecting a player (i.e. using the jammer/virus whatever) has a cost (>>2950 ISK!). Maybe you need a special item that has limited charges that need to be manufactured/bought. So spamming suspicions for fun is a costly thing. If you are tested, you are being presented an image generated by the server that depicts any ship (as when you view the model, from a random angle and distance). You get a choice of 3 or 4 ships and have to select the correct one. - any noob can identify the ships (if you have them linked to the 3D-views) - a trained EVE pilot will be able to pass the test in less than 10 seconds - if colors/textures are either removed or set to some standard, it should be pretty hard for a machine to reliably pass the test (coming from image recognition business, I know what I am speaking of :-D) - no 3rd party hacks for character recognition will work You are NOT informed when a test is due, it will not affect you as long as you don't try to do anything. Continuous mining, autopiloting or sitting afk would be ok. Your client will notice nothing about that a test is due. But as soon as you activate/deactivate any modules, warp or dock/undock, you are challenged with the test. So it will only affect you when you are/pretend to be at the screen piloting. If you pass, everything is fine. If you fail: no warping, no cloaking and you are criminal or something like that. How many times I can spam to you useless thing to stop whatever you are doing? What would be the effect if I do that while you are fighting NPC or Players? and so on, so on. Any "player managed" mechanic will be abused. Even if it has a cost unless the cost is so high that it will not be used at all.
Shobon Welp GoonFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2010.12.27 15:16:00 - [7] Bots need to be purged with fire, not incorporated into game mechanics.
Jokerface666 Amarr The Warp Squad	Posted - 2010.12.27 15:27:00 - [8] I would let the Mining Lasers / Strip Miners malfunction and stop working randomly (like 5 % of the runs go wrong), so a real miner would just activate them again, a bot would have serious trouble with it, becouse as i know a macro works like "click at X Y, wait BLA seconds, click X Y, wait BLA seconds .... and so on) If we put in something that happens randomly, there is no way the macro can do, and i they deactivate the auto repeat, let the mining laser just abort 10 seconds after the start, so you have to activate them again. and whoooop, we have a lot of whining macro runners. BR, Joker o/
M4cr0 Min3r	Posted - 2010.12.27 19:19:00 - [9] Stop macros - remove local and npc corp immunity and the problem will disappear overnight.
Anhenka Minmatar Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck	Posted - 2010.12.27 19:47:00 - [10] Edited by: Anhenka on 27/12/2010 19:49:43 Oh cause that makes any sense whatsoever. Removing local isnt going to stop macro's, at least not in high or lowsec, and will kill nullsec as many remove local threads have noted. Removing noobcorp immunity wont change a damn thing either, you will just get 1 man corp macroers who drop corp and remake a new one for each very infrequent wardec. Your idea are poorly thought out and unsupported, support them a bit at least. Edit: you also lost all credibility with your name, which strongly makes me think your just trolling this thread

Bobbeh Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.12.27 19:47:00 - [11] Before i get flamed to hell few things have gotta be said. Macroers are a problem yes, but they are also the reason Isotopes are a reasonable price, and that trit and the other low end minerals are at a reasonable price. If every Macroer in eve was nuked the entire market would go to shi*. Ship prices would increase dramatically, Isotopes would go way up, t1 and t1 meta gear would go up in price, this would lead t2 equipment to go up in price. That aside, I do not like macro ratters and macro missioners, i do not have a problem with people who are at their computer running a macro while they mine. There is no easy cure to this "plague" as its a large money industry and therefore as we adapt (eve) to counter it, they will adapt their macros to adjust. If you give them a choice above they will just create a random selection method, sure they have 25% chance of guessing right. Problem is Real people could get it wrong aswell so you cant punish everyone that gets it wrong. Prime example " i spent 20 minute entering Capchas to no avail and finally emailed the website admin and he laughed and said ya they can be a bastard some times"
Kezet	Posted - 2010.12.27 20:35:00 - [12] Having been reading forum conversations here and elsewhere about botting I at one point saw someone saying that having a delayed local would help fight bots. The next comment however was from a botter saying it wouldnÆt matter. He indicated that his bots could read data straight from the server so as long as eve knew who was in the system so would the bot. Now this was all in regards to ratting bots in null sec. So might not help so much with highsec noob corp miners but it might help fight rmt or botters being able to afford multiple titans a month. The fact they are reading server data leads to my idea. I donÆt know if this is possible or if it would cause unforeseen problems but what if the server data always showed a hostile in system. This way the bots would either stay æsafed upÆ and be useless or begin to disregard threats and then make them vulnerable to actually being killed. Im not suggesting that this ghost hostile actually appear in the system local or even be visible to a normal player. The idea is that the bot who is reading the server information about the system is the only one who sees it so it only effects the bots function not an actual player. As I said I do not know the validity of this idea but maybe the concept of using the bots nature of threat assessment against it will actually work. Its an idea and i hope that perhaps either ccp will be able to use it or that it will help them come up with a different solution.
Bobbeh Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.12.27 21:01:00 - [13] alot of people who wanna get rid of all macro's aree highsec miners who want trit to be worth mining, which would mean trit prices upwards of 6-7isk per unit. this would increase the value of ships rediculously
Jokerface666 Amarr The Warp Squad	Posted - 2010.12.27 23:54:00 - [14] Originally by: Kezet Having been reading forum conversations here and elsewhere about botting I at one point saw someone saying that having a delayed local would help fight bots. The next comment however was from a botter saying it wouldnÆt matter. He indicated that his bots could read data straight from the server so as long as eve knew who was in the system so would the bot. Now this was all in regards to ratting bots in null sec. So might not help so much with highsec noob corp miners but it might help fight rmt or botters being able to afford multiple titans a month. The fact they are reading server data leads to my idea. I donÆt know if this is possible or if it would cause unforeseen problems but what if the server data always showed a hostile in system. This way the bots would either stay æsafed upÆ and be useless or begin to disregard threats and then make them vulnerable to actually being killed. Im not suggesting that this ghost hostile actually appear in the system local or even be visible to a normal player. The idea is that the bot who is reading the server information about the system is the only one who sees it so it only effects the bots function not an actual player. As I said I do not know the validity of this idea but maybe the concept of using the bots nature of threat assessment against it will actually work. Its an idea and i hope that perhaps either ccp will be able to use it or that it will help them come up with a different solution. This is probably a great idea, if ccp is also able to change the signal let's sy montly, the macro developers wouldn't even be able to keep track with updating it. could be a solutuion, now a dev is needed to think about it :-)
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2010.12.28 03:48:00 - [15] "But the prices will rise!" So what? Things cost more and you now make more. I'm not seeing the downside here. Unless you're a mission runner who never loots or salvages and lives entirely on bounties, you'd be fine. Shouldn't miners make decent ISK too?
Shadowspect	Posted - 2010.12.28 06:26:00 - [16] Pretty sure the 0rphanage and Privateer alliances would abuse this to hell and back.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.28 06:33:00 - [17] other option cancer grows and we leave it as is


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