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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.27 16:57:00 -
[1]
You should be able to seamlessly transition from gate cloak to your own cloak simply by activating your cloaking device. You should not have to move and expose yourself.
I do not expect this proposal to get much support.
|Bounty Fix|Mining Makeover| |
Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2010.12.27 17:01:00 -
[2]
No modules activates while any cloak is active. Including cloaks.
 Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Atomic Zeppelins
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.12.27 17:09:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You should be able to seamlessly transition from gate cloak to your own cloak simply by activating your cloaking device. You should not have to move and expose yourself.
I do not expect this proposal to get much support.
Covert ops ships would become way too powerful.
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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You should be able to seamlessly transition from gate cloak to your own cloak simply by activating your cloaking device. You should not have to move and expose yourself.
I do not expect this proposal to get much support.
Covert ops ships would become way too powerful.
You are aware that any ship that can fit said cloak is comprised of paper thin glass for armor covered in highly protective paper for privacy. as much as people hate cloaks you would think a specialized version that dons the name "convert OPS" would be able to cloak a ship as it enters system. as thats why you get that free 30 second cloak as you havent technicaly landed untill you decloak from jump cloak
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Goose99
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Posted - 2010.12.27 18:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: mchief117
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You should be able to seamlessly transition from gate cloak to your own cloak simply by activating your cloaking device. You should not have to move and expose yourself.
I do not expect this proposal to get much support.
Covert ops ships would become way too powerful.
You are aware that any ship that can fit said cloak is comprised of paper thin glass for armor covered in highly protective paper for privacy. as much as people hate cloaks you would think a specialized version that dons the name "convert OPS" would be able to cloak a ship as it enters system. as thats why you get that free 30 second cloak as you havent technicaly landed untill you decloak from jump cloak
Supported. It's not like anyone have the reflex to lock on at the gap in cloak even if you're in instalock ship. The only reason it happen is due to lag, which shouldn't be considered an legitimate level of gameplay that need to be preserved.
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Ephemeron
Solitairian Society
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Posted - 2010.12.27 19:26:00 -
[6]
I would be for this change if local remained as it is.
But if local channel is finally nerfed - which it will be if CCP got at least one hardcore bone left in their carebear body - then the way things work now would be more than fair, as it would give people a chance to notice possible threat.
Without local, the cov ops would receive natural boost, making additional boosts in stealth excessive.
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Rented
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Posted - 2010.12.27 19:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Goose99
Supported. It's not like anyone have the reflex to lock on at the gap in cloak even if you're in instalock ship. The only reason it happen is due to lag, which shouldn't be considered an legitimate level of gameplay that need to be preserved.
This.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:26:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Bagehi on 27/12/2010 20:27:04
OP's new "I Win" button:
1. Pop cyno
2. Engage cloak
3. Jump scarrier
4. Align
5. Wait for curious fool to warp to cyno
6. Decloak
7. Launch fighters
8. Assign to cyno alt
9. Warp
10. Engage with cyno alt
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Rented
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 27/12/2010 20:27:04
OP's new "I Win" button:
1. Pop cyno
2. Engage cloak
3. Jump scarrier
4. Align
5. Wait for curious fool to warp to cyno
6. Decloak
7. Launch fighters
8. Assign to cyno alt
9. Warp
10. Engage with cyno alt
You're aware that doesn't have anything to do with this topic... rite?
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Green-Core
The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.28 03:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You should be able to seamlessly transition from gate cloak to your own cloak simply by activating your cloaking device. You should not have to move and expose yourself.
I do not expect this proposal to get much support.
And what do you propose as a counter for this mechanic?
Or were you hoping no one would notice that you just rendered multiple entire classes of ships basically unstoppable?
Because you're right, until you, you know, balance it, you won't get much (serious) support.
--Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
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nugget906
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Posted - 2010.12.28 03:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You should be able to seamlessly transition from gate cloak to your own cloak simply by activating your cloaking device. You should not have to move and expose yourself.
I do not expect this proposal to get much support.
And what do you propose as a counter for this mechanic?
Or were you hoping no one would notice that you just rendered multiple entire classes of ships basically unstoppable?
Because you're right, until you, you know, balance it, you won't get much (serious) support.
Quote:
It's not like anyone have the reflex to lock on at the gap in cloak even if you're in instalock ship. The only reason it happen is due to lag, which shouldn't be considered an legitimate level of gameplay that need to be preserved.
They are already unstoppable unless you lag. Able to activate cloak before coming out of jump cloak would simply put people with poor connection, or in a grid with server lag, on par with people with good connection in non-lagging system. All it does is mitigate side effects of lag.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.28 11:49:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ephemeron
I would be for this change if local remained as it is.
But if local channel is finally nerfed - which it will be if CCP got at least one hardcore bone left in their carebear body - then the way things work now would be more than fair, as it would give people a chance to notice possible threat.
Without local, the cov ops would receive natural boost, making additional boosts in stealth excessive.
Must not be..
If a rework of local would include a rework of d-scan that would be able to scan for cloaked ships *don't jump on me yet, I didn't say anything about how accurate or whatcan be found or which distances and what kind of means the d-scanner has to field to get this*
Anyway..
Cloaked should be cloaked.
Work a way out to use the d-scanner to get intel about your surrounding.. cloaked ships inclusive.
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Maylin Li
Caldari
Wallet Blinking in the NPC corp is annoying
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Posted - 2010.12.28 14:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: nugget906
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You should be able to seamlessly transition from gate cloak to your own cloak simply by activating your cloaking device. You should not have to move and expose yourself.
I do not expect this proposal to get much support.
And what do you propose as a counter for this mechanic?
Or were you hoping no one would notice that you just rendered multiple entire classes of ships basically unstoppable?
Because you're right, until you, you know, balance it, you won't get much (serious) support.
Quote:
It's not like anyone have the reflex to lock on at the gap in cloak even if you're in instalock ship. The only reason it happen is due to lag, which shouldn't be considered an legitimate level of gameplay that need to be preserved.
They are already unstoppable unless you lag. Able to activate cloak before coming out of jump cloak would simply put people with poor connection, or in a grid with server lag, on par with people with good connection in non-lagging system. All it does is mitigate side effects of lag.
Actually, the main reason for it is so you can see where someone decloaks, in an attempt to decloak them. I'm all for the idea if their position flashes up (similar to the current mechanic). That would reduce "lag kills" while not breaking gameplay
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.28 22:50:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 28/12/2010 22:52:05
Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 27/12/2010 20:27:04
OP's new "I Win" button:
1. Pop cyno
2. Engage cloak
3. Jump scarrier
4. Align
5. Wait for curious fool to warp to cyno
6. Decloak
7. Launch fighters
8. Assign to cyno alt
9. Warp
10. Engage with cyno alt
because while chilling in null in my pimped out marauder, I always warp to every cyno I see to check out what's happening. I just like to greet every cap pilot that enters the system personally, no matter their standings. And i wold be really ****ed if one of them would dare attack me and kill my pimpboat. Cunning bastard.
Let he ships do what hey are suppose to. I see no reason some bastard hsould be decloacking my cloackies. Would also make all those big alliances watch their back.
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Reaver Glitterstim
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Posted - 2010.12.29 01:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 27/12/2010 20:27:04
OP's new "I Win" button:
1. Pop cyno
2. Engage cloak
3. Jump scarrier
4. Align
5. Wait for curious fool to warp to cyno
6. Decloak
7. Launch fighters
8. Assign to cyno alt
9. Warp
10. Engage with cyno alt
Because you can totally cloak while lighting a cyno.
Originally by: De'Veldrin
And what do you propose as a counter for this mechanic?
Or were you hoping no one would notice that you just rendered multiple entire classes of ships basically unstoppable?
Because you're right, until you, you know, balance it, you won't get much (serious) support.
Define unstoppable. Because I'm pretty sure slightly improved cloaking abilities for ALL ship classes won't cause a covert ops frigate to faceroll supercarriers any time soon.
Originally by: Maylin Li
Actually, the main reason for it is so you can see where someone decloaks, in an attempt to decloak them. I'm all for the idea if their position flashes up (similar to the current mechanic). That would reduce "lag kills" while not breaking gameplay
This actually makes sense. In fact, I would be in support of a module or implant that would act as an active scanner and could display blips in the game world where certain sites of activity occurred, such as a ship cloaking itself. The blip could gradually fade as time goes by, letting the player know approximately how much time has passed since it happened, in case they weren't looking at the spot at that very moment.
And I agree with taking local out of nullsec but not out of lowsec.
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.29 10:06:00 -
[16]
One of th ways to catch a cloak coming in is to put a bubble up and actually seeing where it uncloakd so you can try to decloak it. . . sinc you can't decloak except to actually bump it basically. . .knowing where it came in is important for the dictos to keep bubbles up, for intis to go to that area and so on. . . sure its useless 99% of the time. . .but somtimes you get it. This would be kinda imba for cloakers actually considering there is no counter for them yet.
once there is (and yes, thre will be one. . .its just a matter of time) then lets come back to this imo.
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eocsnesemaj
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.12.29 10:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: nugget906
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You should be able to seamlessly transition from gate cloak to your own cloak simply by activating your cloaking device. You should not have to move and expose yourself.
I do not expect this proposal to get much support.
And what do you propose as a counter for this mechanic?
Or were you hoping no one would notice that you just rendered multiple entire classes of ships basically unstoppable?
Because you're right, until you, you know, balance it, you won't get much (serious) support.
Quote:
It's not like anyone have the reflex to lock on at the gap in cloak even if you're in instalock ship. The only reason it happen is due to lag, which shouldn't be considered an legitimate level of gameplay that need to be preserved.
They are already unstoppable unless you lag. Able to activate cloak before coming out of jump cloak would simply put people with poor connection, or in a grid with server lag, on par with people with good connection in non-lagging system. All it does is mitigate side effects of lag.
Not Supported
You would be surprised at how many people get nervous and double click their cloaks and are then screwed. Cloaks are not meant to make your ship invulnerable. You should see them for the sec that you do and be able to attempt a decloak.
http://tinyurl.com/EostSig |
Uriel Winston
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Posted - 2010.12.29 15:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Goose99
Supported. It's not like anyone have the reflex to lock on at the gap in cloak even if you're in instalock ship. The only reason it happen is due to lag, which shouldn't be considered an legitimate level of gameplay that need to be preserved.
you obviously have never done low-sec camps with remote sebos on an arazu :) insta lock a frigate and point(s)... if he could cloak without being visible after jumping low-sec would be safe space for transports, recons and covert ops.
think before posting 
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Black Dranzer
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Posted - 2010.12.29 15:10:00 -
[19]
Just a sidenote (and sneaking in a support of my own): There is indeed a very brief window which allows the cloaker to be caught. If it were otherwise, I wouldn't be making this proposal. 
|Bounty Fix|Mining Makeover| |
Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Certified Household Sweeping Consulting
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Posted - 2010.12.29 18:36:00 -
[20]
No. There is already way too much cloak this and that which is especially annoying in low sec where it is already difficult enough to catch anything.
That little time you spent uncloaked at least gives a hint where the cloaker is going and where it is now. Not acceptable to change it more powerful the way it is now.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.29 19:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn
No. There is already way too much cloak this and that which is especially annoying in low sec where it is already difficult enough to catch anything.
That little time you spent uncloaked at least gives a hint where the cloaker is going and where it is now. Not acceptable to change it more powerful the way it is now.
i don't think you should be able to catch cloacked ships in low-sec. THey ar emade to escape from null, not even low-sec camps
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Certified Household Sweeping Consulting
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Posted - 2010.12.29 19:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev
stuff
Sir. I don't think you fully realize that there is very good possibility to catch cloaker in null and good chance even in low sec if you put effort on it. However it requires a special setup in low sec making i.e. cloaking haulers pretty op there. I do not believe ccp intended to make anything uncatchable. However this suggestion would drastically change it. Which would be very bad thing.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.29 19:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev
stuff
Sir. I don't think you fully realize that there is very good possibility to catch cloaker in null and good chance even in low sec if you put effort on it. However it requires a special setup in low sec making i.e. cloaking haulers pretty op there. I do not believe ccp intended to make anything uncatchable. However this suggestion would drastically change it. Which would be very bad thing.
I think i do fully realise there is a good possibility.. well, not so good possibility, to catch cloaker in null. BUt in my opinion clacking ships should be almost invulnerable in low-sec while cloaked, unless the pilot makes a mistake.
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.29 20:52:00 -
[24]
Sorry m8, nothing should be uncatachble ever.
In loww sec its basically impossible to catch a cloaker already - bot impossible - almost impossible. that slight differenc is really key imo.
In 0.0 its difficult to catch a cloaker, easier, but difficult still.
its remarkably balanced - and I zip around in my cheetah all th time and basically fear nothing in low sec, and just keep an eye out in local in nill sec. . . and I have only ever lost a cloaker once when moon probing yay back when, and it as luck on th opponents part. My anathema - one of the first ingame - is the same one I have had for almost half a decade. I was the first in cop to train cov. ops, paied a small fortune for the ship, and I still have it. . . and i use it a lot.
I just don't see how it can get any safer without becoming completly imba
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.29 21:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rented
Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 27/12/2010 20:27:04
OP's new "I Win" button:
1. Pop cyno
2. Engage cloak
3. Jump scarrier
4. Align
5. Wait for curious fool to warp to cyno
6. Decloak
7. Launch fighters
8. Assign to cyno alt
9. Warp
10. Engage with cyno alt
You're aware that doesn't have anything to do with this topic... rite?
Don't see why not. If someone can instantly cloak off a gate, a cap ship should be able to instantly cloak too. The threat associated with either is similar. Sub cap could jump in, instantly cloak, move to their range decloak and engage. The current mechanic is much more fair. The jump cloak gives both sides information and does not provide an unfair advantage. The suggested change would provide an unfair advantage.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.30 06:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Bagehi
*snip*
Don't see why not. If someone can instantly cloak off a gate, a cap ship should be able to instantly cloak too. The threat associated with either is similar. Sub cap could jump in, instantly cloak, move to their range decloak and engage. The current mechanic is much more fair. The jump cloak gives both sides information and does not provide an unfair advantage. The suggested change would provide an unfair advantage.
I thought there was a targeting delay for any non-covert ops cloak?
The current mechanic is based on luck.
You jumped into a system and have 30 seconds.
You hit the warp to xy or just align somewhere you think might be good. Server collects that 'order' and executes it in the next server tick (1 per second).
Next update your client gets from the server tells it to draw your ship to start to move and all others that it's on the grid.
If you got no lag and are fast you now click on the cloak module and your client tries to tell the server that you want to be invisible from now on. According to load the server executes this order in the next possible tick and sends your client the information that your ship is cloaking now (along with anyone else on the grid, who just don't get positional info about you any more).
As soon as your client gets this information he toggles the cloak button 'active'.. if this takes 3 seconds because of lag/bad i-net you think you didn't hit cloak and try to activate it (again), but instead you just send another 'clicked the cloak module button' (= deactivate) to the server.
Also this lag from getting the info about your ship moving until you can hit the cloak button is the timeframe others can see you one the grid.
My experience is:
2 second visible on the grid = perfect
3+ seconds visible on the grid = fortuna didn't like you today
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Atomic Zeppelins
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.12.30 11:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: nugget906
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You should be able to seamlessly transition from gate cloak to your own cloak simply by activating your cloaking device. You should not have to move and expose yourself.
I do not expect this proposal to get much support.
And what do you propose as a counter for this mechanic?
Or were you hoping no one would notice that you just rendered multiple entire classes of ships basically unstoppable?
Because you're right, until you, you know, balance it, you won't get much (serious) support.
Quote:
It's not like anyone have the reflex to lock on at the gap in cloak even if you're in instalock ship. The only reason it happen is due to lag, which shouldn't be considered an legitimate level of gameplay that need to be preserved.
They are already unstoppable unless you lag. Able to activate cloak before coming out of jump cloak would simply put people with poor connection, or in a grid with server lag, on par with people with good connection in non-lagging system. All it does is mitigate side effects of lag.
They are hard to catch, but most definitely possible. Just when he decloaks hit mwd and approach and hope to hit him when he cloaks.
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Kaya Divine
Kittens Factory
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Posted - 2011.01.05 06:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 30/12/2010 06:28:59
Originally by: Bagehi
*snip*
Don't see why not. If someone can instantly cloak off a gate, a cap ship should be able to instantly cloak too. The threat associated with either is similar. Sub cap could jump in, instantly cloak, move to their range decloak and engage. The current mechanic is much more fair. The jump cloak gives both sides information and does not provide an unfair advantage. The suggested change would provide an unfair advantage.
I thought there was a targeting delay for any non-covert ops cloak?
The current mechanic is based on luck.
You jumped into a system and have 30 seconds.
You hit the warp to xy or just align somewhere you think might be good. Server collects that 'order' and executes it in the next server tick (1 per second).
Next update your client gets from the server tells it to draw your ship to start to move and all others that it's on the grid.
If you got no lag and are fast you now click on the cloak module and your client tries to tell the server that you want to be invisible from now on. According to load the server executes this order in the next possible tick and sends your client the information that your ship is cloaking now (along with anyone else on the grid, who just don't get positional info about you any more).
As soon as your client gets this information he toggles the cloak button 'active'.. if this takes 3 seconds because of lag/bad i-net you think you didn't hit cloak and try to activate it (again), but instead you just send another 'clicked the cloak module button' (= deactivate) to the server.
Also this lag from getting the info about your ship moving until you can hit the cloak button is the timeframe others can see you one the grid.
My experience is:
2 second visible on the grid = perfect
3+ seconds visible on the grid = fortuna didn't like you today
When all has been said and done you will easily see that the gate-cloak upon jumping into a system is just to avoid spawn-point-camping. It's the same deal with no-touchy of undocking ships.
'Artificial' choke-points because the game designers/programmers couldn't solve several other problems Eve faces and probably never will.
Hear, hear!
Shoot your shot... |
Seamus Donohue
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Posted - 2011.01.05 08:19:00 -
[29]
Unless CCP changed it recently, jumpcloaks currently last 60 seconds on Tranquility.
Supported.
Let a ship transition from jumpcloak to it's onboard cloaking device without being directly visible. If needed for game balance, then a non-decloaking object called a "Jump Signature" can be created on the ship's position that anyone can approach. This "Jump Signature" would appear either when the cloaked ship starts moving or 60 seconds after jumping into the system, whichever happens first. (That is, this "Jump Signature" would appear on cloaked ships whenever the jumpcloak would have broken.)
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Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke. |
Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2011.01.05 11:49:00 -
[30]
Not supported.
I can currently catch roughly 30% of all the cloaky transports that jump into my lowsec gate blind unscouted (i.e. the way you should never jump into lowsec). If this gets changed, the number automatically goes to roughly 0, unless the person jumping crashes/disconnects/whatever.
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