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Johlius
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Posted - 2010.12.28 22:51:00 -
[1]
I'm a new player who's loving hauling so far. I eventually want to trade, but I don't think I know enough yet to risk all my ISK on item speculation yet, so I've stuck with basic market scanning and finding sell orders cheaper than buy orders across different regions, etc. I've got the capital now to move from my Sigil to either an Impel or Prorator (but not the SP...yet....), but didn't want to choose one or the other without talking to people with experience between them.
Everything I've read seems to say that blockade runners are basically immune to almost anything except a well-prepared HAC. That's obviously great, but the comparitively smaller cargo hold isn't so hot.
The Impel could be fitted to haul quite the load...but can it be stopped easily enough to make it not worth it? Do you need to waste so many of its lo-slots on further warp stabilizers than the inherent +2 that the cargo gain is negligible? And is the vaunted tank that it has even able to hold off a typical gatecamp until it gets to warp?
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2010.12.28 23:09:00 -
[2]
If it can fit, blockade runner. If it doesn't fit, find something that does.
-L
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Fred Barbossa
Free Mineral Collective
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Posted - 2010.12.28 23:19:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Fred Barbossa on 28/12/2010 23:19:31
Blockade runners are basically immune on low sec gates to everything except a combination of instalock gangs and lag against you.
If your on a station realize you cannot cloak while next to it and someone sitting near the undock point can be setup to bump you. Your amazing align time is usually a counter to this.
Personally I don't see a point to stabs on a cloaky hauler because the instalock gang will probably be supporting a heavy dictor that can beat the stabs or your being bumped.
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Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.12.28 23:26:00 -
[4]
The cloaking hauler is a much better choice for lowsec. It is also better for highsec if you are frequently hauling less than 9km3~ since it is almost 3 times more agile, and has a much higher warp speed. The Transport varient has about 8x more effective hitpoints and about 3-4x more cargo speed, but is much slower. I'd say it is only worth going for the Transport Ship as opposed to the blockade runner if you're frequently hauling 10km3+, or find yourself using autopilot a lot with semi-valuable stuff in it (500-600mil or so). The +2 WCS bonus is pratically useless in lowsec, where there are hics and usually multiple points.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2010.12.29 00:18:00 -
[5]
You have to set up the deep space transport so that it can align while cloaked. The usual tactic is start aligning, hit the MWD and then your improved cloak (I prefer the lowest faction cloak, you get a slightly better velocity penalty for about twice the cost of the the improved cloak II). When the MWD cuts out, then drop your cloak and warp to destination, you should be aligned and moving faster than you would be uncloaked without MWD.
The process is cumbersome enough that you'll eventually flub it in the midst of a gatecamp (especially with the tricky timing uncertainty of exiting gatecloak). Or someone will get lucky and get close to you in the ten seconds while you're aligning. But it still makes the deep space transport hard to catch.
The real problem is when you're leaving a station. Better have a good warpout point or you'll be a pretty easy target. On a rare while, I used to fly an occator in low sec with scouting. At that time, there was no +2 warp stab strength. I relied on the MWD-cloak-align trick to keep myself alive.
Sometimes I screwed up, like when the MWD didn't come on, but the cloak did. Then it was a matter of slowboating (very slowly!) away from the gate and hoping the pies didn't figure out where you went. The two times it happened to me, the pie(s) got bored and flew off. Hurray for low sec incompetence! 
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2010.12.29 00:27:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Fred Barbossa
Personally I don't see a point to stabs on a cloaky hauler because the instalock gang will probably be supporting a heavy dictor that can beat the stabs or your being bumped.
Back in the good old days when I occasionally flew through Rancer in my viator and the viator had the +2 stabs, a remote-boosted cruiser or bc got a point on me as I warped off. So yes, it does help to some degree. Not everyone will be flying a HIC so it can marginally improve your survivability, if you get locked by an inty or other ship with ludicrous scan resolution.
For a blockade runner, I don't recommend putting warp stabs in your lows, even if you don't need the cargo space. Nanofibers or inertia stabs are a better choice, to be honest.
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Johlius
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Posted - 2010.12.29 05:54:00 -
[7]
great replies, thanks so much. I do want to make a note that I was talking about fitting stabilizers on the transport, not the blockade runner.
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Kahega Amielden
T.R.I.A.D
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Posted - 2010.12.29 10:34:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Johlius
great replies, thanks so much. I do want to make a note that I was talking about fitting stabilizers on the transport, not the blockade runner.
The existence of heavy interdictors stops this from being worthwhile. A heavy interdictor that points you holds you down...period...and no amount of WCS will save you. The cloak + MWD trick mentioned above is good, but isn't all that reliable. I personally would only take a DST into quiet lowsec, and even then I'd use a BR if at all possible.
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Kosur
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Posted - 2010.12.29 13:01:00 -
[9]
I'd go for the slower one to be honest.. not sure if the warp cloak trick is still viable, but if you find yourself in danger from a HIC, burn a cycle of the afterburner quickly cloak up and at the right time, decloack and warp... practice this and you can get away from anything. I used to do this against idle empire in the caldari cosmos space with ravens.
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Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
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Posted - 2010.12.29 15:06:00 -
[10]
blockade runner is the only way to go in low-sec/0.0, unless you have access to a carrier or other jumpable ship. it can also double as a nice scout ship for other cargo ships, the ability to warp while cloaked is very nice.
i'd rather have the blockade runner, and use it to scout for a t1 hauler that's packed full then try to do it all with the DST.
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Wolfgang Hexenhammer
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Posted - 2010.12.29 16:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Iosue
blockade runner is the only way to go in low-sec/0.0, unless you have access to a carrier or other jumpable ship. it can also double as a nice scout ship for other cargo ships, the ability to warp while cloaked is very nice.
i'd rather have the blockade runner, and use it to scout for a t1 hauler that's packed full then try to do it all with the DST.
I totally agree. I prefer the blockade runner. If properly fitted, it has the fastest align time and fastest warp as well as a low signature radius. For example, mine is under 122, so any gun larger than a frigate's has difficulty locking. That extra time to lock gives you added time to cloak and warp. And yes, warping cloaked will save your bacon. Especially in 0.0.
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Illadelph Justice
SniggWaffe
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.12.29 16:31:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Illadelph Justice on 29/12/2010 16:34:28
as someone who regularly blows up transports going through lowsec gates, I can tell you that you are much better off with a cloaky. Any smart lowsec pirates use focused point hictors which will still lock up and point your blockade runner. remember, focused Hictor points can stop anything even if they have a million warp core stabs fit. Unless you are 1) ******ed, or 2) unlucky, there is little chance that they can catch a cloaky transport.
edit: and with that, the mwd-cloak-uncloak-warp trick is good, but we regularly decloak people trying to do just that. all you have to do is burn at where they are in space. you're really better off being able to warp cloaked.
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Chaos Dreams
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Posted - 2010.12.29 16:48:00 -
[13]
Use a blockade runner.
Deep Space Transports (DST) are really only good for bait, as they can all support a tank of roughly 100k so they can take some hits and as everyone knows they have built in stabs people rush to point them up thus agressing themselves. For any other purpose use a different ship.
DST's have a ridiculously slow align time, really it takes ages. They're also very slow, and tanking them usually eats into at least some of your cargo capacity. By way of comparison, an iteron V can hold more than all the DST's, aligns faster, and can still fit a decent-ish tank.
If you're moving unscouted through low/null a blockade runner is really your only viable choice. Even if this means you have to make more trips it's still a far better choice. If it's too much cargo to be moved realistically with a blockade runner it's time to look into carriers and/or JF's. Skip the idea of DST's completely.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.30 12:11:00 -
[14]
Use a DST for hauling within a single system. They are great for mining operations and PI.
Use a Blockade Runner when traveling through gates.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2010.12.30 14:26:00 -
[15]
DST, good for hauling large m3 and expensive modules through highsec, it'll make you harder to suicide gank (can't be instapopped with 100K ish EHP, takes a concerted BS effort to take you out), will move faster than a freighter through several jumps thus making organising the BS gang difficult, and has some WCS ability built in to help you avoid the lonely guy with a point who tries to grab your ship when you have some nice loots but not quite enough EHP to survive a couple guys. Ridiculously long sentence ftw.
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Aredin
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Posted - 2010.12.30 22:47:00 -
[16]
I would just like to mention that cloaky haulers CAN be destroyed by smartbombs. Smartbombs destroy ships, even if they are still technically in warp. So if an enemy gang know where your inbound and outbound gates are, they can easily kill your incredibly fragile blockade runner by sitting a few km off the gate in line with your inbound gate and activating the smartbombs as you exit warp.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2010.12.31 02:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aredin
I would just like to mention that cloaky haulers CAN be destroyed by smartbombs. Smartbombs destroy ships, even if they are still technically in warp. So if an enemy gang know where your inbound and outbound gates are, they can easily kill your incredibly fragile blockade runner by sitting a few km off the gate in line with your inbound gate and activating the smartbombs as you exit warp.
The way I deal with that is to warp to gate cloaked and spam jump as I get close. You still have a chance to kill my blockade runner (though it can take a bit of damage) especially if you bring it. But you won't see me until I'm jumping which improves my survival chances. The odds are far worse for small ships that can't warp cloaked. I once lost a stealth bomber (back in the days when they couldn't warp cloaked) to a single smartbombing bs. The guy probably had a lot of experience popping frigates coming out of warp.
A relatively easy way to avoid death by smartbomb at a gate is to bookmark a warpin point to the gate well away from the usual spot (though after the first time, they know where your warpin point is). Gates are so big that you can find a spot well away from the usual trouble.
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