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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9084
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Posted - 2012.08.14 19:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Pip Mayo wrote:Why is this game built on a PvP environment? Because it's the kind of game and target audience the devs are after.
Quote:I am talking about PvE merchants and miners. Is there such a thing? Not really, no. That would rather defeat the purpose of the game.
Quote:The game seems handicapped for solo PvE play. Sure. So many other games have that segment covered, so there's no need for EVE to incorporate it especially since, again, it doesn't fit with the fundamental way the game works.
Try X-¦ if that's the gameplay you're after.
Quote:MMOs are not just for PvP Perhaps not in general, no, but this one is. That's why there are so many different games: to cater to different preferences and different markets. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9086
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Posted - 2012.08.14 21:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nerf Burger wrote:EVE is a sandbox which should allow for solo pve as well as other playstyles. No. You're confusing it with your standard single-player open-world sandbox game.
EVE is a multiplayer sandbox GÇö multiplayer being the operative word. This does not mean that you can do what you want. It means everyone can do what they want and that will include things that you do not want them to do (to you). If you want to do something, you have to ensure that other players will let you do it, because the game offers no such assurances.
Or, as Malcanis once put it: sandbox does not mean that you can excel at anything you attempt GÇö it means you can attempt anything you wish to excel at. One of the main obstacles towards that goal will be other players. This is by design. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9089
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Posted - 2012.08.15 00:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Solo PVE possibilities include:
- Missions - Mining - Exploration - Wormholes - Industry
All of the above activities can be done solo GǪand only one of is not a PvP activity. The rest will put you in direct, and often fierce, competition with other players who are likely to try things to keep you from getting what you want.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9089
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Posted - 2012.08.15 00:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪand only one of is not a PvP activity. The rest will put you in direct, and often fierce, competition with other players who are likely to try things to keep you from getting what you want.
FYP. No. If you want to put a GÇ£mayGÇ¥ in there, you could replace the GÇ£are likelyGÇ¥ bit, but not the part about competition because it will simply not go away. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9089
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Posted - 2012.08.15 01:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm sorry, we're talking about TQ here, no sisi, so yes. Yes they do. You cannot do any of those without competing with other players. It's inherent in how EVE works on a fundamental level.
There is no GÇ£mayGÇ¥ about it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9089
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Posted - 2012.08.15 01:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
James 315 wrote:There's an argument to be made there, but I wonder how many highsec PvE players recognize that their actions affect others. Considering how often some variation of GǣI'm not messing with you so why are you messing with me?Gǥ comes up as an argument from that campGǪ
Three? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9089
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Posted - 2012.08.15 01:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Tippia wrote:They always put you into competition, yes. Then we're in agreement. We agree that you cannot avoid the competition, yes. There is no GÇ£mayGÇ¥ about it since it's built into the very foundation of the game and it's nice of you to admit that the word doesn't belong there. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9089
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Posted - 2012.08.15 02:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:I believe that PVE does exist in EVE and while it might not be prudent or financially advantageous it is possible to avoid competition if not wholly then at least partially in most of the activities in EVE that would conventionally be considered "PVE". I'll post my standard copypasta for when people ask for some kind of PvP-toggle just for reference:
A "no PvP" switch in EVE would have to have at least the following restrictions: -+ You can obviously no longer lock any player ship. -+ You can no longer activate any kind of AoE weaponry or module. -+ You can no longer use the market, contracts or the trading window. -+ You can no longer access or manage POSes and their services. -+ You can no longer mine. -+ You can no longer shoot rats. -+ You can no longer open any kind of container in space. -+ You can no longer use the on-board scanner or scan probes. -+ You can no longer be in a fleet. -+ You can no longer use salvagers. -+ You can no longer access the industry interface. -+ You can no longer access player-sovereign systems. -+ You can no longer access free-floating permanent sites in space. -+ You can no longer see local. -+ You no longer show up in local. -+ You can no longer see other player ships on the overview. -+ You no longer show up on other player's overviews. -+ You can no longer join a player corp.
Some of those aren't entirely relevant here since they're there to highlight things in which you'd be able to abuse a no-PvP switch, which is a different issue entirely, but that's the nature of copypasta. The point here is: any time you gain any kind of resource GÇö and this includes such abstract things as GÇ£a spot in spaceGÇ¥ (for your POS) GÇö you ensure that someone else is not getting that resource. It is now yours and yours alone and it has been denied everyone else (unless and until they blow you up and take it). The instant you go on the market and there is already an order for the same item you're trading in, you're competing with that other player for the best price (lowest or highest depending on which side of the equation you are) and for the item or ISK you're after.
There is one exception to all this: missions, and in that particular case the exception only extends to the actual mission itself. No-one can stop you from clicking the GÇ£request missionGÇ¥ button to spawn a new one, and no-one can stop you form clicking the GÇ£complete missionGÇ¥ button (but they can occasionally keep you from having the assets required to do so) and thereby cash in any outstanding rewards GÇö those two actions are completely without competitive elementsGǪ but then you have to do something with those rewards and you're straight back into competition territory. And anything inbetween those two clicks is something where other players are out to get you and nick your stuff.
Quote:I also believe it's possible to enjoy EVE without a second thought about the ramifications of how the way you play it affects others. This is true. it's just doesn't remove the simple fact that there are such ramifications and it just means you've got blinders on. Ignorance and nonchalantness is always possible. It still doesn't make it PvE GÇö it's more a player vs. wilfully-induced-filter-of-things-that-go-on-in-the-world-around-youGǪ but I don't think PvWIFOTGOITWAY is an industry-standard concept.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9123
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Posted - 2012.08.16 11:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pip Mayo wrote:Beg to differ. Being attacked is not limited to lowsec and below. I experienced it first hand. And it was far from consensual. That was why I began this thread. GǪand if it wasn't consensual, then it cost the other guy something, because that's how highsec works: highsec is simply a part of space where aggression comes at a cost. Nothing more, nothing less (ok, maybe a bit less, since there are some equipment restrictions as well).
So you're not actually differing in any way from what he said.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9130
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Posted - 2012.08.16 15:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pip Mayo wrote:The consequences, whatever they were, still did not stop my being attacked and destroyed. They're not meant to. They're only meant to give people enough pause to occasionally not blow up everything they come across. Highsec is all about gambling on the hope that other people's miserliness will keep them form attacking you. Sometimes, that gamble will pay off; other times, it won't; and if you tip the scale so that attacking you does not cost anything, then the odds will quickly fall out of your favourGǪ
Quote:Thus my whole point about EVE not having any PVE environments. I get no warning when I enter highsec space. You get a warning if you read through the new player information and tutorials, where it still states that other players can attack you at any point for no apparent reason (and that's before we even go into the GÇ£everything is PvPGÇ¥ argument). Indeed, this could be made a whole lot clearer, but it's there if you pay attention. At any rate, it's entirely by design and it is not something that will, or even can change without a massive reconstruction from the ground up of the entire game to the point where it is no longer EVE Online.
Quote:The one attack, and biggest hit financially, was at a gate. I understand that was a suicide run? The others were at cosmic points. Does security enter those? Isn't there an aggression timer? Unless you are a legit target by having committed a crime or by being at war, attacking someone in highsec means you get blown up. Period. If you don't, it's an exploit. It doesn't matter where or how GÇö CONCORD demands their pound of flesh everywhere in highsec, be it through lost ships or through wardec fees.
Aggression timers come in a couple of varieties. First, there are the timers that determine for how long you are a legitimate target when you commit smaller offences (theft, mainly). For 15 minutes after such a crime, you are a legit target for the victim. Then there's the GCC GÇö the global criminal countdown for large crimes (ganks) which also last for 15 minutes. During those 15 minutes, you are a free-for-all target and if players don't take you out, CONCORD will but only as long as you are in a ship. Then there are the NPC aggression timers, which are largely inconsequential other than if you **** off one of the NPC corps, in which case their stations will start shooting at you and will not stop until 15 minutes have elapsed since they last saw you. Finally, there are the docking timers, which aren't strictly speaking aggression timers but which are closely tied to them: they just say that for a period of time since you last did something offensive towards another player, you are not allowed to dock or use gates (requiring you to GÇ£deaggressGÇ¥ to make yourself safe).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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