Are you so dense to believe that?

Canflippers have it so hard

I was 14 days old and a total noob newb. It was even in a protected area, and I was so newb I didn't even know this.

Now you tell me where the risk in this kill is?

[quote=Alara IonStorm]

Thats a load of crock. Can flippers are after easy kills plain and simple.

If the victim of the flip falls for the trap then how many times does he come out on top? If the victim manages to kill 1/10 flippers he is pretty good. I say again, the flipper is hoping for an easy kill. If flipping cans would kill the flipper 9/10 instead of the other way around I kind of doubt people would be flipping very much at all.

First, griefing is not PvP, griefing is going after newbs, slow people and anyone who cannot defend themselves. This is not PvP, the griefers try and claim it is, but it's not. They all decry it's a cold universe, danger is everywhere! But they scan targets and go after the weak, they don't want a "real" fight, they want to "tears" and to **** someone off. So, while griefing can lead to PvP, if having that newb try and fight back can even be considered PvP, ganking, can flipping, and all other forms of griefing != PvP.

Everybody in EvE can hire mercs for self defense, now there are mechanics to help cooperation between the various figures.

However if you are a miner and hire mercs to defend you, they can do nothing even when their targets comes to kill the paying customer else it's :concord:
A mechanism should exist so that I don't have to wait for the other guy (invariably in NPC or 3 alts corp, they being the same who demand others to be social!) to get flagged also to me so that I can shoot at them.

As of now this mechanism only exists for those being in the same corp of the miner, it'd be cool the flag was extensible at least to the hired mercs.

Then let's see who comes crying on the forums, eh?

I think the new Idea for Crime watch is a bad idea as other people have said it makes ganking freighters in hi sec and stealing there loot impossible. I don't mine in empire so I don't know how bad the can flipping is. I really don't care that is something I don't want to do. If the flagging systems would extend to the fleet that the person is in I think it would make both the flippers and flippies happy as that is fair IMO. If the purposed idea of Crime watch goes through the population of eve will get dumber as they will expect CCP to hold their hands from the beginning of the game to the end like some other MMO and the whine threads on the forum will get more ridiculous as people say well we got this lets try to get this now till all of Hi sec is pvp free in any form. At what point in this game do people take responsibility for there own actions of not knowing game mechanics or refusing to use them as it will hamper there isk/hr?

Being able to take part in a fight without being a legal target isn't "in the spirit of Eve" and let's not pretend that it is, thanks.

Or maybe you could put my post into context rather than reading it selectively and replying with something that's completely unrelated to the subject matter.

i'll just stop you there and let you know that I was referring to RR in the context of fighting suspect-flagged players

Not at all. If they wanted to protect the nubs, they could make concording for canflipping in high sec. This change is about adding some actual risk to being a douchebag. No longer can awful players choose the riskless "pvp" they desire, they will actually have to take a risk of being attackable by anyone, not just their chosen target. Like other players have said, can flippers are out for easy kills, they will dock the very moment they feel they might be in danger. Real pvpers get their kills outside high sec.

no, potentially zero risk is right. The can fiipper get to chooses his target, no the other way around, and he can easily pick a target that has no chance of retaliation. Its natural that theives would be attackable by anyone after they stole. To say can fights are 100% in favor of the victim is 100% moronic.

The canflipper. I took back what I thought was my stuff. I didnt know what canflipping was. What it entailed. Yes I got the warning but there was nobody around. I was well, and truely suckered into a LM.

I was a prime target. A noob newb. What these guys prey on. While you cannot fix stupid. THIS enables the new and vulnerable to have some active protection. Not just a week long wait for a petition.

... that the miner can legitimately hire me to kill stuff (before it fires). As of now it's frustrating to see the targets come close and have to wait for them to open fire or do something.




Why, mercs exist and I don't recall them having to signup an EULA to play only when the targets have it fair.




Considering I proposed on the Ideas forum ways to make hi sec like 0.0 and remove concord and NPCs? Heh for what I care there shold be only few hi sec islands for newbies and the rest free for all.

I understand "Pro hi sec PvPers" being scared even just at the vague mention of "free for all, no cheesy stupid NPCs in the middle".

Why would they call it high sec if people can have their way with you with zero risk? lol.

Apparently you can't comprehend EVE design, much less simple logic. To say the miner is the aggressor is just....lol. More butthurt, irrational can flipper tears please.

lol, wow you really are an idiot, aren't you?

No, that really is the only viable response to what you said. Stealing isn't aggression? Lol, you're and idiot aren't you?

Ok so can someone explain to me how with the new mechanics you can gank and loot a freighter after Crimewatch 2.0 with out losing your freighter?

Ummm, no. This is the only character I have ever posted on. I even posted earlier in this thread making a completely different point than Nerf is making.


I just happen to agree that only an idiot would say stealing isn't an act of aggression. Also, who here is using a forum alt? This is my main. Get yourself over it.

Doesn't help when flipping pirate has Falcon and at least two Scimis aligned and ready to warp in. Let's not forget that OGB Tengu.

Boosting Tengu and logis don't show on killmails.

That's called justice. Learn the difference between crime and justice. I don't know what backwards world you are living in, but on planet earth people don't get punished for exacting justice, only crimes.

I was 14 days old. OFC at that age I know EVERYTHING about the game. Silly me for doing an action that I surely knew was going to get me killed


Do not try to justify this as my fault. The Canflipper preyed on me because of my lack of ingame knowledge. Logic says you cannot steal your own stuff. I applied that logic and took my stuff back. I lost out. I didn't cry a river of tears. I got even (eventually)

- Currently miner or mission runner can't do much to protect themselves against you.
- Can flipping always leads to pvp encounter. And pirate always wins.
- Pirate has the upper hand always.

Show me killmail then.



Killmail thing goes to you too.

This guy gets it. This is the reality. Anyone who thinks the victim has all advantage and that there is much risk in can flipping is clearly a moron.

To all the people touting that all the miner/missioner has to do is go dock and ship up, how often does the flipper really wait for this to happen? I wager the majority, note, I didn't say all, of flippers in this situation will warp away, especially if a real combat ship comes back.

The fact is, while the miner/missioner has the ability and the right to shoot back, if they are like my industry alt, they are trained for fitting and flying industrial ships, and science and manufacturing. He really has nothing to ship up to.

So again to all you high-sec PvPer's, and for this instance I am really using that term loosely, how about this for a solution, as minor as the crime may be you did STEAL from a person, this is a crime, and should be punishable. I agree Joe Blow back at the station who never saw a thing shouldn't be able to shoot you, but how is this, everyone on grid who witnessed the event can shoot.

There is no GCC or any of that, but hired mercs, friends, and allies will have the ability to protect each other and shoot you, should they be on hand to witness the crime. Now a non-combat pilot can hire help and have friends to watch his back. Corps who specialize in industry can hire mercs to guard their mining operations, etc. etc. There is no reason that people should have to be in the same corporation to protect each other.

Do you know that cloaks mess up your targeting? Even force recons have targeting delay -> pirate warps away.
If miner warps off and returns in pvp ship pirate usually warps away if he see combat ship in d-scan and switches to ship that can kill [insert ship here].

Lol, and I'm not worried about losing something if can flipper is around. I like to waste their time. I'm quite good at it.

Torps against frigate...

You're so wrong it's not even funny. There's ofcourse different kinds of can flippers so I can only speak for my (former) self.

- I WANT you to have multiple corp members in local, preferably all over 6 months old, the older the better as that means they'll fly bigger and more expensive ships and get more cocky
- I WANT you to have "security" in the belt, generally that means I'll get shot at
- I don't CARE for your hauler or retriever kill, they mean nothing to me as they have no value and thus can't be ransomed
- I WANT you to come back in something good because I know full well that, being a miner, you'll be **** at using it and that means easy target worth a lot of isk, resulting is nice ransoms
- there's many ways miners can avoid being can flipped, even when they're jetcanning! All it takes is some basic understanding of the game mechanics, some ingenuity and some ******* EFFORT. It happen fairly often that I just can't even GET the jet can or can't entice the previous owner to do something stupid, when that happens I wish him good luck and go my merry way to find someone who IS a moron and will do moronic dumb ****
- there's many ways a corp can protect themselves after being can flipped and kill the can flipper in a fight. (hint, most of the dumb carebears fly caldari, it's not very difficult to put a fitted blackbird in your Orca now is it)


I have no problem in stating that it's easy kills most of the time because it is but then again, gatecampers also want easy kills, blobbers in 0.0 also want easy kills and pirates in low sec, guess what... they want easy kills. The difference is that miners/bears whine about how unfair it is and how CCP should do something about it, while people who actually understand EVE point at the options said miner has and go "you have the tools for the job, it's up to you to make it happen".

Miner is smart enough not to engage Tengu realizing that the thief out guns him. If lacking adequate Corp support Miner accepts that in this instance he has been outgunned and doesn't jettison his valuables until known thief leaves system. Adds thief to watch list for further notice.

I is confuzed