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Anyura	Posted - 2011.01.04 17:37:00 - [1] It seems to be one of the rules for anyone that flies a drone boat - "Use Gallente drones for PVE and Minmatar drones for PVP". The former having the best damage and the latter having the best speed. I can't help but wonder why we bother with Amarr and Caldari drones if this is the case. What do you think could be done to increase the usage of the different racial drones?
NoNah	Posted - 2011.01.04 18:08:00 - [2] Originally by: Anyura It seems to be one of the rules for anyone that flies a drone boat - "Use Gallente drones for PVE and Minmatar drones for PVP". The former having the best damage and the latter having the best speed. I can't help but wonder why we bother with Amarr and Caldari drones if this is the case. What do you think could be done to increase the usage of the different racial drones? All but amarr drones(non-sentries) should be used for pve, depending on your opponent. Amarr drones only real advantage as is is the price, and that's not really a viable niche. Yes, the amarr drones needs some sort of buff, but they've needed it for years and it's not likely that it'll come any time soon as the issue isn't to big. No ship relies on amarr drones and they're still viable should you need EM damage for some reason. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 76738
TimMc Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2011.01.04 18:20:00 - [3] Amarr drones need a buff. Caldari sentries have nice optimal, and sometimes their drones can be good for PvE once you account for npc resists.
1600 RT	Posted - 2011.01.04 18:23:00 - [4] caldari drones are good they have the 2nd best dps and the 2nd best speed, they are a nice mix between warriors and hobgoblins. amarr drones are crap.
Orion Zero	Posted - 2011.01.04 18:33:00 - [5] For PvE... Taking into account both the drone's DPS and the NPC average resists, the following is true: Gallente drones are best against Sansha, Blood Raiders and Mordu's Legion Caldari Drones are best against Serpentis and Guristas Minmatar drones are best against Angel Amarr drones are not best against anything, but are second best against Blood Raiders and Sansha. I have confirmed this both with calculations and with in-game testing using a stopwatch. There is some slight variation to NPC resists depending on the mission, but the above holds true 99% of the time. This does not take into account drones speed and tracking, but I find that DPS is more important for getting the missions finished quickly, especially for level 4 missions where there are alot of battleships. For PvP... It depends. I use Gallente drones against shield tanking ships, and Minmatar drones against armor tanking ships, in general. Exception to this is I almost always use Warrior II's (Minmatar light drones) against frigates, especially interceptors. hope that helps.
Lain Umi	Posted - 2011.01.04 19:02:00 - [6] Edited by: Lain Umi on 04/01/2011 19:03:40 Edited by: Lain Umi on 04/01/2011 19:02:12 curator II's are pretty awesome. 450 dps at 60-70km. best against t2 shield tanked ships. bouncers are hands down the best sentries and warriors the best scout drones. wardens have the most range and gardes the most dps. so sentries are very nicely balanced.
Altaen Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari	Posted - 2011.01.04 19:11:00 - [7] Edited by: Altaen on 04/01/2011 19:13:10 Originally by: Lain Umi Edited by: Lain Umi on 04/01/2011 19:03:40 Edited by: Lain Umi on 04/01/2011 19:02:12 curator II's are pretty awesome. 450 dps at 60-70km. best against t2 shield tanked ships. On T1 ships you generally want EM vs. shield tanks and explosive vs armor tanks...but on T2 ships you can generally throw that out the window, they have very different resist holes than T1 hulls. Edited to add: Please use EM damage against my shield tanked Vagabond, or a Sleipnir/Claymore etc...
Buzzmong Aliastra	Posted - 2011.01.04 19:43:00 - [8] Caldari drones are actually rather good for PVE. Due to being the second fastest and also being the 2nd in terms of DPS, it averages out nicely to put them on nearly par with Gal drones for actual damage dealt when you start taking travel time into account. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go!
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2011.01.04 20:08:00 - [9] Originally by: 1600 RT caldari drones are good they have the 2nd best dps and the 2nd best speed, they are a nice mix between warriors and hobgoblins. amarr drones are crap. This. If you know how/when to use Caldari drones for both PvP and PvE they can be quite effective. Not so much on Amarr drones.
Indeterminacy THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.04 20:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Anyura Drone discrimination It's true. Since their creation drones have only been considered to be 3/5ths of a person.

Sessym Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.04 20:40:00 - [11] If you compare drones you'll see something that looks like a mistake. Minmatar drones are the fastest, but they also have higher damage modifier, which should be the amarr drones' trait, to back up the slower speed and increased HP. 0= - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'So grab your guns.'
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.01.04 22:02:00 - [12] I can't see why they aren't like missiles with same stats but different damage types. * Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2011.01.05 11:05:00 - [13] Comparing drones damage? Now that would be nice. So, I'll just take a look in my combat log and see how my drones are damaging the target in a live environment... out of EFT. Oh, wait a minute. The damage isn't there! How funny? CCP: GIVE US DRONE DAMAGE IN THE LOGS!!! It's already there for in the target's logs so why can't the aggressor have it in their logs also? How hard can it actually be? /rant. No, actually I still have rant left: This small omission makes drone boat combat, especially with sentries, completely gimped compared to the other four weapons systems. /okimdone
Lain Umi	Posted - 2011.01.05 13:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Altaen Edited by: Altaen on 04/01/2011 19:13:10 Originally by: Lain Umi Edited by: Lain Umi on 04/01/2011 19:03:40 Edited by: Lain Umi on 04/01/2011 19:02:12 curator II's are pretty awesome. 450 dps at 60-70km. best against t2 shield tanked ships. On T1 ships you generally want EM vs. shield tanks and explosive vs armor tanks...but on T2 ships you can generally throw that out the window, they have very different resist holes than T1 hulls. Edited to add: Please use EM damage against my shield tanked Vagabond, or a Sleipnir/Claymore etc... ure talking about minnie ships, which have naturally high EM resists. id use bouncers or wardens for those. curators eat any other t2 shield tank. against T1 shield tankers, gardes are generally preferred for the higher dps.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2011.01.05 19:57:00 - [15] Edited by: Dav Varan on 05/01/2011 20:02:01 Originally by: Sessym If you compare drones you'll see something that looks like a mistake. Minmatar drones are the fastest, but they also have higher damage modifier, which should be the amarr drones' trait, to back up the slower speed and increased HP. Yeah dude I think you are right. Mini and Amarr damage modifiers for lights/meds/heavys should be swapped over I dunno about sentries. If you look at the lights for instance you see a pattern. The faster the drone the better its tracking If amarr and mini drones damage mult were swapped over then it would also be true to say The faster the drone the lower its damage mod. If you compare a mini drone to an amarr drone then the mini drone is better in all 3 stats Faster Better tracking Better multiplier for dps When you compare the slow drones ( gal and cal ) The hob has best dps dps The hornet is faster and has better tracking Drone - Speed - Damage x - Tracking Hobgob II - 3360 - 1.92 - 2.178 Hornet II - 3840 - 1.74 - 2.520 Acolyte II - 4560 - 1.38 - 2.964 Warrior II - 5040 - 1.56 - 3.240
Kalnov Gallente Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.05 21:56:00 - [16] There is absolutely no reason to use Amarr and Caldari drones. Sentries are well balanced however. People have the misconception that Caldari drones are worth using. Let me prove to you why this is not true. First, go to this website. http://eve.grismar.net/rats/index.php Type in Guristas. Now note the difference between Kinetic and Thermal damage resistances. 32KIN vs 35THERM So this is a 3% damage difference superiority to the Kinetic Damage. However, Hobgoblin does 20dps whereas a Hornet does 18dps (all 5's). This is a 10% damage difference. 10% - 3% damage for increased resistances equals 7% more damage for the Gallente Drones and therefore no reason to ever use Caldari Drones (except Wardens at very long range). For quick reference at all 5's using an ishkur (no drone damage bonus) as base: Hobgoblin 20dps vs Hornet 18dps Hammerhead 32dps vs Vespa 29 (~10% difference) Ogre 63 vs Wasp 57 (~10% difference)
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2011.01.06 08:24:00 - [17] Originally by: Kalnov 32KIN vs 35THERM So this is a 3% damage difference superiority to the Kinetic Damage. However, Hobgoblin does 20dps whereas a Hornet does 18dps (all 5's). This is a 10% damage difference. 10% - 3% damage for increased resistances equals 7% more damage for the Gallente Drones and therefore no reason to ever use Caldari Drones (except Wardens at very long range). That's some awfully creative math topped off with an entirely one-dimensional conclusion. If no one else comes along to explicitly poke the holes I might get to it tomorrow but it's frankly past my bedtime already.
Zdrahonul Gallentor Gallente Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2011.01.06 15:17:00 - [18] For PvE: if you have good enough drone skills for T2 Sentries AND Drone interfacing V, then you shouldn't need anything else than Garde IIs and a set of Hammerhead IIs. Garde IIs have the best tracking available; combined with Omnidirectional Tracking Link mod(s), they can successfully track all rats that are coming your way, starting the 50 km mark (when they actually start dealing some damage). What I found out after doing many L4 missions is that if you manage to put a 50+ km distance between your ship and the enemy, you can stop, deploy drones and just change targets until all rats below BS-sized are dead. With one notable exception (NPC spider drones which reach 3000 m/s), they will all dire very fast. If enemy BS rats come too close (20 km or less), pull drones in, burn away from rats, stop at the 50 km mark, deploy sentries, kill rats. Works like a charm. Very few missions throw NPCs at high distances from you and some drone boats (Ishtar) have a 60 km (unskilled) max targeting range, so your Wardens will have their efficiency area cut big time (even while using a Dominix, with 70km max targeting range, also unskilled). Bouncers have 3 times less tracking than Gardes, a very big downside when dealing with small rats, where Gardes are very successful. With Gardes, you ensure all rats are dead long before they get to you. With Bouncers, you will have to pull them in regularly and either kite the rats some more or get med drones out and use them to get rid of rats. ...gis sdrawkcaB
Anubis Xian Word Bearers of Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.06 16:08:00 - [19] Cut the size of Amarr drones in half. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.06 16:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Kalnov There is absolutely no reason to use Amarr and Caldari drones. Sentries are well balanced however. There is plenty of reason to use Caldari drones, since they actually do more damage to kinetic-weak targets. Quote: http://eve.grismar.net/rats/index.php Type in Guristas. Now note the difference between Kinetic and Thermal damage resistances. 32KIN vs 35THERM àbecause it includes quite a few entities that you will never really come across as well as a number of structures that have default resists regardless of what faction their names suggest they belong to. The standard resistances for actual ships you will encounter will be somewhere in the 35/45 to 45/55 for normal ones, 65/75-70/80 for the elite versions. However, even if you we go by that incorrect average, your math is wrong. Quote: So this is a 3% damage difference superiority to the Kinetic Damage. However, Hobgoblin does 20dps whereas a Hornet does 18dps (all 5's). This is a 10% damage difference. 10% - 3% damage for increased resistances equals 7% more damage for the Gallente Drones No. What you do is look at the difference between damage modifiers: 1.92 for Gallente T2, 1.74 for Caldari T2, because in terms of raw damage, that's all that separates the two and the one thing that provides the best comparison. Now, as it happens, the difference is about the same (1.92 is 10.3% more than 1.74), so so far, so good. However, the difference bettween 32% and 35% resists is not 3%. It's actually a difference between 68% and 65% damage coming through, and that means that kinetic on average across that deeply flawed selection does 4.6% more damage than thermal. Of course, as mentioned, the resists you'll actually come across are not 32% and 35%, but rather 35% and 45% (i.e. 65 vs 55 damage let through respectively), which means that kinetic weapons do 18% more damage than thermal ones, which means we've got that 10.6% advantage of thermal drones beat by a large margin. And that's for the standard rats. For Dire Gurista rats, we're looking at an average of 54% Kn and 62% Th resists, and now kinetic does 21% more damage than thermal. àand all of this is before we even account for things such as improved hit quality due to better tracking and less time lost due to faster travel speeds. Gallente drones are good against thermal and EM-weak tagets. Against everything else, you want Caldari or Minmatar drones. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

filingo rapongo JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION GET IN THE CAR WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2011.01.06 17:23:00 - [21] I Demand an end to racial sterotyping and discrimination against drones throughout the eve cluster those little white x things floating around in space have feelings and stuff too im not really sure what they are but i demand that their civil liberties be upheld Rapongo
Xia Xiou	Posted - 2011.01.06 19:02:00 - [22] Originally by: filingo rapongo I Demand an end to racial sterotyping and discrimination against drones throughout the eve cluster those little white x things floating around in space have feelings and stuff too im not really sure what they are but i demand that their civil liberties be upheld Rapongo Frakkin Gallente worshiping hippie!!!
Zhilia Mann Tide Way Out Productions	Posted - 2011.01.06 22:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Tippia Correct math and assumptions There. That's what I was going for.
Millsy1	Posted - 2011.01.06 22:24:00 - [24] Amarr drones are actually the best choice for Dronelands (PVE) and their exploration sites (Hierarchy and such) Curator II's eat through them like butter. Of course this means no one else here needs them :P


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