Originally by: Bhattran

---

First batch, divided meeting minute releases, has this eva' happened before?

---

Originally by: Minutes

---

After 27 hours of meetings, the CSM summit ended.

---

Quote:

---

CCP noted that the current method of donating a PLEX is very cumbersome, and the offer of one CSM to write a bot for GM Grimmi that would automate the current process was not seriously considered.

---

Originally by: Tres Farmer

---

Ok.. reading now.. waiting at the launch-ramp for the fireworks that had been promised

---

Originally by: Elzon1

---

Originally by: Tres Farmer

---

Ok.. reading now.. waiting at the launch-ramp for the fireworks that had been promised

---

What does this mean, a turret kind of thing for fireworks... or moar drake missile spam?
Haven't been to fanfest before, would like to know

---

Quote:

---

CCP noted that the current method of donating a PLEX is very cumbersome, and the offer of one CSM to write a bot for GM Grimmi that would automate the current process was not seriously considered.

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

27 hours of discussion and you covered the following topics:

You need better websites
You want to set up a charity
You decided that the CSM isnt about us telling you what we want, its actually another method of us telling you what we think of what you did instead
You agreed to NOT have sexy booth babes at Fanfest ()
You agrees that beer is expensive at Fanfest

At what point did you talk about the actual game?

---

Originally by: PC l0adletter

---

I did find it odd that $98,000 being given to charity over the past five years is a "remarkable total." I mean, I guess. WoW gave over $1 million in the last quarter alone. CCP has had revenue over the past five years of what, a couple hundred mil? Charity is great and all, but maybe CCP should just focus on making a good game, and once you're successful at that, give generously. I don't demand that every company with which I do business give money to charity. Just don't be BP or Halliburton and we're good, as far as I'm concerned.

Also I find it strange that the notes repeatedly emphasize that CCP gets nothing out of this -- I mean, isn't that the nature of charity? Counterpoint: don't their PR guys get them any favorable media coverage for it? I guess it would have to be a pretty slow news day for $14,000 of contributions to the Pakistani flood victims to get front-page billing.

Anyways, more about internet spaceships, please.

---

Originally by: GIGAR

---

Now that we know what the CSM DID during the meeting, would anyone mind posting anything remotely useful?
Like, the token votes?
That'd be pretty damn useful :[

---

Originally by: Iamien

---

Why did we get the last third of the minutes first? Let's try chronological order.

---

Originally by: Tres Farmer

---

Damn, those poker prioritisation sessions sound interesting.

---

Originally by: Casiella Truza

---

I have little to say about the issues addressed in this installment except to note that, in a game with pleasure hubs, exotic dancers, and prostitutes, "booth babes" are pretty tame...

---

Originally by: Master Akira

---

I was promised Rage and Drama. I found none on this part.

Hope the other two are "better"

---

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

---

Originally by: Master Akira

---

I was promised Rage and Drama. I found none on this part.

Hope the other two are "better"

---

Three courses: Salad, Steak, Dessert. All accompanied by a selection of fine whines.

---

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

---

Originally by: Master Akira

---

I was promised Rage and Drama. I found none on this part.

Hope the other two are "better"

---

Three courses: Salad, Steak, Dessert. All accompanied by a selection of fine whines.

---

• CSM Processes tools and evaluation.
  CSM and EVE Websites.
  CSM Issues.
  CSM Activities at Fanfest.

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

27 hours of discussion and you covered the following topics:

You need better websites
You want to set up a charity
You decided that the CSM isnt about us telling you what we want, its actually another method of us telling you what we think of what you did instead
You agreed to NOT have sexy booth babes at Fanfest ()
You agrees that beer is expensive at Fanfest

At what point did you talk about the actual game?

---

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal

---

I really shouldnt have to mention this (as it is clearly stated in the devblog), but

This is only part 1 of 3 of the minutes

We did not spend 3 days discussing what you read here (in fact, this is roughly one day worth of discussions). The rest - with a notably more gameplay heavy theme - will come in the following days :)

---

Quote:

---

Conversation moved on to the topic which is currently being discussed quite widely in the community, botting and RMT. Whilst there was not alot of in depth information with regards to combating these discussed, it was noted that bounty input into the economy has been increasing steadily since æUnholy RageÆ which has increased the money supply. There has been a marked decrease in belt ratting which means that the bounties must be coming from elsewhere. This may be explained by the sovereignty upgrade system introduced with Dominion increasing the number and value of deadspace complexes which spawn in a system. Leading those participating in 0.0 PvE to run these rather than rat in belts. Whether or not this is related to botting is unclear.

---

Quote:

---

Many players will be glad to hear that there is a new font in the works, and whil it was difficult to tell from the big screen in the meeting room, there was a distinct improvement over the old font. The CSM did suggest that zero be given a diagonal slash though, in order to further differentiate it from D and O.

---

Quote:

---

The 0.0 game of EVE is seen by many as what make EVE what it is, and since Dominion it has become increasingly homogenized. Victory is determined by sheer weight of numbers rather than tactical and strategic brilliance. Dominion was supposed to place limits on the amount of space an alliance and provide opportunities for smaller corporations and alliances to gain a foothold on the frontiers. Neither of these have been the case. Dominion failed.

---

Quote:

---

A variety of possible solutions to these issues were discussed, and the proliferation of supercaps was probably the on that drew the most attention. It was concluded that makeing them weaker through a straight nerf of their combat capabilities was not a solution as this would simply lead to larger numbers being fielded. A variety of ideas were put forward which would make them harder to move around, the most promising of which was a æCyno SpoolingÆ time. Basically the idea is this: Cyno pilot drops a cyno in the destination system and depending on the distance from the departure system it takes a certain time to either get the cyno field up to the required strength or for the capital ships jump drives to get up to speed to make the jump. This time would increase with distance and the cyno would need to be defended during this period. This would limit the ability of Super-Capital (and Capital) fleets to hotdrop on targets with no warning from half the galazy away, it would also mean that a Capital fleet would not be able to cross the entire galaxy in about 20 minutes.

---

Originally by: Shepard Book

---

Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be there

---

Originally by: Liang Nuren

---

Edited by: Liang Nuren on 10/01/2011 18:49:28
"apparently the cost of explaining to the Icelandic Tax Vikings"



"a single player (who requested anonymity) donated over 240 PLEX in a single contribution"



Good job on the charity stuff - definitely the most important thing discussed. And I'm being serious. RL > Eve.

-Liang

Ed: And let me donate any time. :)

---

Quote:

---

The idea of booth babes (pretty girls dressed up in EVE costumes, handing out stuff) was discouraged by the CSM.

---

Originally by: Iamien

---

Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 21:46:02

Originally by: Shepard Book

---

Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be there

---

Not really. It will least effect 0.0.

You can only settle a planet if your alliance holds sov of system. Hiring Mercs in 0.0 will be hiring mercs against your corp/ally mates. Great game design eh?

---

Quote:

---

The idea of booth babes (pretty girls dressed up in EVE costumes, handing out stuff) was discouraged by the CSM.

---

Originally by: Shepard Book

---

Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be there

---

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal

---

I really shouldnt have to mention this (as it is clearly stated in the devblog), but

This is only part 1 of 3 of the minutes

We did not spend 3 days discussing what you read here (in fact, this is roughly one day worth of discussions). The rest - with a notably more gameplay heavy theme - will come in the following days :)

---

Originally by: Mynxee

---

Originally by: Shepard Book

---

Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be there

---

Considering the CSM does not provide feedback or comments regarding DUST, and that it does not appear CCP has sorted out exactly what the connection between EVE and DUST will be (see October minutes), I respectfully disagree.

---

Originally by: Elzon1

---

And heres some stuff from outsider perspective :D

Lots of noteworthy stuff here :
Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

---

Quote:

---

The CSM expressed concern about continuity within the CSM about processes, methods, information and other things that are generally inherited by members going between CSMs. CCP revealed that the exact same concerns had been voiced within CCP, and thus the CSM would get the project of creating a continuity document for the next CSM in order to make the transition as smooth as possible.

---

Originally by: Estimated Prophet

---

Quote:

---

The CSM expressed concern about continuity within the CSM about processes, methods, information and other things that are generally inherited by members going between CSMs. CCP revealed that the exact same concerns had been voiced within CCP, and thus the CSM would get the project of creating a continuity document for the next CSM in order to make the transition as smooth as possible.

---

One option is to rotate out only half the CSM with each election. This would mean having elections twice as often (for only half the positions), but gives overlap between successive CSMs.

---

Originally by: Estimated Prophet

---

One option is to rotate out only half the CSM with each election. This would mean having elections twice as often (for only half the positions), but gives overlap between successive CSMs.

---

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

---

Originally by: Estimated Prophet

---

One option is to rotate out only half the CSM with each election. This would mean having elections twice as often (for only half the positions), but gives overlap between successive CSMs.

---

If everyone was allowed to vote in each election, this would effectively double the power of large voting blocks; they would be more easily able to get multiple members on the CSM. Smaller constituencies would get squeezed out.

---

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

---

Originally by: Iamien

---

Why did we get the last third of the minutes first? Let's try chronological order.

---

That would require waiting until Friday, and releasing everything in one chunk. So instead, we decided on thematic groupings (this one is "Community Issues"), which will also make it easier for interested devs to monitor the threads, since instead of one general thread there will be three more specific ones.

---

Originally by: Mynxee

---

Originally by: Shepard Book

---

Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be there

---

Considering the CSM does not provide feedback or comments regarding DUST, and that it does not appear CCP has sorted out exactly what the connection between EVE and DUST will be (see October minutes), I respectfully disagree.

---

Originally by: Ashina Sito

---

*snip*
As some one stated above it was more about housekeeping rather then anything that the player base is looking for from the CSM. TBH, why should I care how the CSM is represented at Fanfest?

---

Originally by: Ashina Sito

---

I (nor most of the player base) will be there and as stated the CSM can't give out more info they they do because of the NDA so it's not like a CSM panel video on Youtube is gonna be worth watching. So why is this important? More sound proofing for meeting rooms? How does this apply to game play in Eve?

---

Originally by: Ashina Sito

---

Seems that the Fanfest stuff was outside of the purview of the CSM so not sure why time was even wasted on that. I would suggest CCP hand out a satisfaction survey to FanFest participants at the end of Fanfest, it would be a better use of resources. Have a Booth Girl hand them out. Gotta keep the hot chicks employed some how!

---

Originally by: Iamien

---

Purpose of booth babes are to draw attention to your booth and away from competitor's at a conference.

---

Quote:

---

At a fan-fest for a particular project, it is best to let the players do cos-play if they wish.

---

Originally by: Tres Farmer

---

Did you ever try to understand what some of the questions or answers had been in a roundtable/panel discussion on those FF videos?
I'm all for better soundquality.

---

Originally by: Hawk TT

---

TBH the DevBlog is pretty ascetic...

Mentioning that we are getting Part 1 of 3 does not give us very good idea what are the remaining topics in Part 2 & Part 3.

Also, having in mind the "aerodynamic style" of Part 1, I am afraid that Part 2 & Part 3 will be heavily NDA-blurred as well...

Just for a reference - CSM5 June 2010 Summit Minutes

One big difference - The June 2010 minutes contain lots of specific questions / suggestions AND ACTION POINTS

P.S. The rate of interesting DevBlogs has fallen in the recent weeks, probably due to the Holidays, probably due to the soon-to-be-hit deadlines...Who knows? CSM or CCP?

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal

---

I really shouldnt have to mention this (as it is clearly stated in the devblog), but

This is only part 1 of 3 of the minutes

We did not spend 3 days discussing what you read here (in fact, this is roughly one day worth of discussions). The rest - with a notably more gameplay heavy theme - will come in the following days :)

---

---

Originally by: devblog

---

An early draft version of one teamÆs backlog was brought out, with various features and their "complexity score" (i.e. approximate effort needed to implement) listed, totaling around 200 complexity points of work. The 9 members of the CSM present were each given ten tokens (each being worth a single complexity point), and told to collectively decide which features they wanted to "buy". Towards the end, they were told that "TQ was broken" û in order to introduce an element of surprise that can very well happen in real development environment û and they'd "lost a programmer from the team", removing 30 points' worth of possible work.

---

Originally by: Skippermonkey

---

Dont be a tease, elaborate more on this. I want to know what options where there, who chose what, and what is going to be done about it.

---

Originally by: KaarBaak

---

Originally by: Mynxee

---

Originally by: Shepard Book

---

Edited by: Shepard Book on 10/01/2011 21:28:58
With respect to presentations of non-EVE CCP products (such as Dust), the CSM has no problem with this, but feels they should have their own sessions as opposed to being mixed in with major EVE presentations.


Dust can effect 0.0 and therefore it should be there

---

Considering the CSM does not provide feedback or comments regarding DUST, and that it does not appear CCP has sorted out exactly what the connection between EVE and DUST will be (see October minutes), I respectfully disagree.

---

Shouldn't we (you) be elbowing your way to the table in order to start giving feedback and comments before something dreadful happens and reacting to it? Wouldn't it be fun to be just a little bit pro-active for once?

---

Originally by: Mynxee

---

If only there was a Dust table to elbow our way to.

When asked in October if CCP would implement CSM-like groups for Dust and WoD, they said "Maybe." When CCP indicates that they can or are willing to discuss with CSM precisely how Dust will connect to and influence EVE, then there will be a reason for the CSM to engage proactively. Given what CSM has been told about Dust so far, there does not appear to be enough meat on the bones just yet to permit meaningful discussion about the EVE/Dust connection/interaction.

Besides which, CSM bandwidth is fully occupied with engaging quite proactively on more immediate concerns such as what remains broken in EVE, the lack of confidence-inspiring information about new features (e.g. Incarna) on the frighteningly near horizon, overall direction of the game, etc.

---

Originally by: KaarBaak

---

Re-reading my late night post, I sense a bit of tired-induced snark. That snark really should have been directed at CCP.
...
(BTW, you just lost the game )

---

Originally by: Quicktime

---

I hope this is the last time that you will break the notes up, have we learned that we can wait and get the whole picture all at once? Everyone seemed to have the same initial reaction to this news was the same as mine, what the F is the CSM doing talking about this crap when we have so many problems in the game?

Then find out that this is only a 1/3 of the notes. Just wait and send them all out at the same time, unless this was to gain 3 news notices for the game, since every time each section is released it will be in some website promoting eve. If this is the case release something interesting in each released section, this crap makes you guys look like your not doing the job.

---

Originally by: Ranger 1

---

Originally by: Quicktime

---

I hope this is the last time that you will break the notes up, have we learned that we can wait and get the whole picture all at once? Everyone seemed to have the same initial reaction to this news was the same as mine, what the F is the CSM doing talking about this crap when we have so many problems in the game?

Then find out that this is only a 1/3 of the notes. Just wait and send them all out at the same time, unless this was to gain 3 news notices for the game, since every time each section is released it will be in some website promoting eve. If this is the case release something interesting in each released section, this crap makes you guys look like your not doing the job.

---

Not really.

Most of us actually read the Dev Blog and understood that this was part 1 of 3.

All I see is about 1/2 dozen people with egg on their faces that failed basic reading comprehension.

I like it broken out, it allows for more indepth discussion of each part, without smaller issues being drown out by the larger ones.

Well done CSM/CCP.

Oh, if you get rid of the booth babes I'm going to slap someone.

---

Originally by: Lord Matrix

---

Like any other political entity, CSM seems to be more bothered with itself than making the game better and more enjoyable for the rest of us. The focus is supposed to be on the game, not CSM.

---

Originally by: Iamien

---

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

---

If everyone was allowed to vote in each election, this would effectively double the power of large voting blocks; they would be more easily able to get multiple members on the CSM. Smaller constituencies would get squeezed out.

---

It also doubles voting power of small voting blocks.

---

Originally by: Jahadeen Jinka

---

A possible upcoming feature is the permanent ability to donate PLEX to at least some charities. This opens the door to something that looks a lot like RMT, namely that supporters of a charity could in an organized manner play EVE with the whole purpose of making money for their favourite charity.

How would CCP feel about such activity? Would they want to disallow it or not? If they'd want to disallow it, would an addition have to be made to the EULA? (With my cursory look, I did not find anything that would disallow such activity.)

Personally, I am IRL a rather committed regular donor to a certain charity, and have a lot of contacts to similar people. If I was allowed to play EVE to make money for my favourite charity, I would seriously consider setting up a corp for just that purpose, and then try to recruit some of the IRL people I know who might be interested (yes, many of them are also gamers).

---

Originally by: Jahadeen Jinka

---

I wonder if it has been thought of that the possible permanent ability to donate PLEX to charity kind of enables organized RMT? In other words, I could get a few friends together and play EVE with the goal of maximizing the money we make for our favourite charity?

I originally posted on this in the Features and Ideas Discussion forum yesterday, with the following words (and got no comments there):

Originally by: Jahadeen Jinka

---

A possible upcoming feature is the permanent ability to donate PLEX to at least some charities. This opens the door to something that looks a lot like RMT, namely that supporters of a charity could in an organized manner play EVE with the whole purpose of making money for their favourite charity.

How would CCP feel about such activity? Would they want to disallow it or not? If they'd want to disallow it, would an addition have to be made to the EULA? (With my cursory look, I did not find anything that would disallow such activity.)

Personally, I am IRL a rather committed regular donor to a certain charity, and have a lot of contacts to similar people. If I was allowed to play EVE to make money for my favourite charity, I would seriously consider setting up a corp for just that purpose, and then try to recruit some of the IRL people I know who might be interested (yes, many of them are also gamers).

---

---

Originally by: mkmin

---

Read the minutes again. They were pretty clear they weren't going to be managing dozens of different charities, just 1 or 2. Probably all go to red cross or one of the other big institutions. Your concerns are completely groundless.

---