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Kuvaki
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Posted - 2011.01.11 14:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kuvaki on 11/01/2011 14:42:31
hello, i am rather new to eve (only been around about 4 months) and i like missioning ALOT for my isk. Currently i am flying a rattlesnake that can tank anything I have trown it at but kills a little slow for my liking. Well i guess my question is im wanting to fly either the Vargur or the Golem, both look like excelent ships but with very difrent charecteristics. I mission in Amarr space in an area that gives mostly blood raider missions. tanking all that into consideration would you sugest I get into a Golem or a Vargur? And would Arty/Cruise or Torp/AC be my best choice of weapons.
Thanks, KuvaKi
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.11 14:59:00 -
[2]
TBH your best bet in amarr space is a nightmare, it's downright funny how quickly it'll chew through blood raiders rats.
That said, if you're dead set on going golem or vargur:
Vargur is a much easier ship to fly. It fields more tank, hits smaller things more easily, and has a MASSIVE engagement range (getting your falloff to 100km is fairly easy with barrage)
That said, if you're ok with less tank and less range, the golem will outperform it if flown properly. Though I myself dislike the ship.
Also, the only marauder that uses long range guns is the kronos, which is the main reason why it sucks. Torps/ACs on your matari/caldari ships for lvl 4s. |
Diesel47
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Posted - 2011.01.11 15:01:00 -
[3]
Golem is best, varg is second best.
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De BuG2
Gallente
Rise on Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.11 15:14:00 -
[4]
i prefer the mach for missions, as it kills things faster and generally completes the missions faster than any marauder, but for varg vs golem... i'd go for the varg for it's tracking and falloff
--------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.11 15:24:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Diesel47
Golem is best, varg is second best.
Go back to stormwind city nub.
A Golem is in no way better at missioning BR's than a Vargur.
The correct answer was given, NM is the best for that area.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.11 15:28:00 -
[6]
The Golem is best. The Vargur is best. The Mach and CNR are also best, and the Nightmare and Paladin are best too. The Vindicator is best in some circumstances.
Basically...go with your preferred flavor. The best mission ships are all within a few percentage points of each other against some faction or another. People tend to argue to death over the smallest differences in efficiency, but they're all great.
ששששש
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object
When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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Kuvaki
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Posted - 2011.01.11 17:30:00 -
[7]
the thing i dont like about the Nightmare is that i would have to train lasers, and when i move on to caldari space eventualy ill need to find something that can shoot kin, the reason im looking at Vargur and Golem is because both can swap out ammo types, I guess its the old "missiles vs projectile" argument... Well thank you all for your opinions, 1 more question, would the vargur or golem have a better omni tank if its even advisable to try an omni tank 1?
thanks Kuvaki
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raukosen
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Posted - 2011.01.11 18:33:00 -
[8]
You can't be nowhere near flying a Marauder if you've only played for 4 months, wtf is this
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.11 18:46:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 11/01/2011 18:47:39
Originally by: Kuvaki
Well thank you all for your opinions, 1 more question, would the vargur or golem have a better omni tank if its even advisable to try an omni tank 1?
The Vargur usually fields a beefier tank than the Golem. The reason for this is Minmatar T2 resists plug the EM hole, and the Golem needs several of its mids for target painters to be used properly. The Vargur is a bit more flexible about what midslot utility items you need to field, but good pilots generally fly with less tank.
Omni-tanking the Vargur is a bit inefficient, but works perfectly fine.
Originally by: raukosen
You can't be nowhere near flying a Marauder if you've only played for 4 months, wtf is this
People need goals, I guess. 
With all the training time required, I think doing some fact-finding before you commit yourself down a path is an excellent idea.
ששששש
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object
When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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Galen Silas
Gallente
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.01.11 19:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Diesel47
Golem is best, varg is second best.
Go back to stormwind city nub.
A Golem is in no way better at missioning BR's than a Vargur.
The correct answer was given, NM is the best for that area.
This sounds kind of biased.
Yes, i love stating my opinion... because people don't like it! |
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Rip Marley
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Posted - 2011.01.11 21:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 11/01/2011 18:47:39
The Vargur usually fields a beefier tank than the Golem. The reason for this is Minmatar T2 resists plug the EM hole, and the Golem needs several of its mids for target painters to be used properly. The Vargur is a bit more flexible about what midslot utility items you need to field, but good pilots generally fly with less tank.
This is true, since the Vargur is going to fitting Tracking Enhancers and Gyro's it's mids will be free to do as you see fit.
Since you have the Gallente BS skill, you could always try a Machariel for a while. It doesn't have the same tank as the Vargur, but it's speed can minimize a lot of damage, especially from torps.
You still run that passive tank on the Rattler right? You might be able to switch it to an active tank and fit some damage mods. I don't know a lot about Rattler fits but I personally don't care for passive tanks because they kill your DPS. Changing the fit on your current ship may turn out to be the better short term solution.
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McRoll
Minmatar
The Legion of Darkness
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Posted - 2011.01.11 22:32:00 -
[12]
I flown them both and I prefer the Vargur because of several reasons:
Advantages:
- it is way better against smaller ships
- it can oneshot frigs from 20 km on with its guns and doesn't rely on drones for this
- no fiddly target painter management
- can actually have a better tank than Golem if needed (golem needs 2 target painters to be effective)
- is faster
- it has more range
Disadvantages:
- less dmg against battleships
- dmg types are not pure like with missiles
- is worse against Guristas because of dmg type and the ranges Guristas typically engage
So I only would recommend it against Guristas, there the Varg loses (but not by much). Against other NPC's I like the Varg better, and against Angels it is unmatched.
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oldmanst4r
Minmatar
oldmanst4r's Corporation
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Posted - 2011.01.12 00:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
The Golem is best. The Vargur is best. The Mach and CNR are also best, and the Nightmare and Paladin are best too. The Vindicator is best in some circumstances.
Basically...go with your preferred flavor. The best mission ships are all within a few percentage points of each other against some faction or another. People tend to argue to death over the smallest differences in efficiency, but they're all great.
Pretty much this.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Aslord
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Posted - 2011.01.12 03:17:00 -
[14]
i own and use all marauders and pirate battleships (all T2 spec ready) and run missions in amarr space. It's true that each have it unique advantages,however if you want one battleship, the mach is on average the "best" to own.
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2011.01.12 12:44:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aslord
i own and use all marauders and pirate battleships (all T2 spec ready) and run missions in amarr space. It's true that each have it unique advantages,however if you want one battleship, the mach is on average the "best" to own.
Yeah.
I wish it had one more middle slot.  Ofc one could wish for a lot of things. 
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Mike712
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Posted - 2011.01.12 12:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aslord
i own and use all marauders and pirate battleships (all T2 spec ready) and run missions in amarr space. It's true that each have it unique advantages,however if you want one battleship, the mach is on average the "best" to own.
In my opinion the CNR competes quite favorably for best all rounder, being as it has truly selectable damage type and superior damage projection.
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2011.01.12 13:01:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sazkyen on 12/01/2011 13:03:02
Originally by: Mike712
Originally by: Aslord
i own and use all marauders and pirate battleships (all T2 spec ready) and run missions in amarr space. It's true that each have it unique advantages,however if you want one battleship, the mach is on average the "best" to own.
In my opinion the CNR competes quite favorably for best all rounder, being as it has truly selectable damage type and superior damage projection.
The Mach has EM/Therm/Explo AND explo/kin damage type. Also, with barrage (the kin/explo one) the threat range is increased way beyond 100km. IMHO the Mach is a very good contender for best all-around. That's not to say the CNR is a piece of ****. It's obviously a nice ship to fly but I, personally, find the Mach more efficient and a lot more convenient (no painter shenanigans).
Edit: although you COULD add a painter on a Mach. I simply don't find it very necessary. Perhaps for artillery. Not for AC. I always use AC. There are some select missiosn where artillery could be fun but in general I don't find it very efficient. 800mm FTW.
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Mike712
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sazkyen
Edited by: Sazkyen on 12/01/2011 13:03:02
Originally by: Mike712
Originally by: Aslord
i own and use all marauders and pirate battleships (all T2 spec ready) and run missions in amarr space. It's true that each have it unique advantages,however if you want one battleship, the mach is on average the "best" to own.
In my opinion the CNR competes quite favorably for best all rounder, being as it has truly selectable damage type and superior damage projection.
The Mach has EM/Therm/Explo AND explo/kin damage type. Also, with barrage (the kin/explo one) the threat range is increased way beyond 100km. IMHO the Mach is a very good contender for best all-around. That's not to say the CNR is a piece of ****. It's obviously a nice ship to fly but I, personally, find the Mach more efficient and a lot more convenient (no painter shenanigans).
Edit: although you COULD add a painter on a Mach. I simply don't find it very necessary. Perhaps for artillery. Not for AC. I always use AC. There are some select missiosn where artillery could be fun but in general I don't find it very efficient. 800mm FTW.
Over 20% of EMP ammos damage is exp and kin which are the worst damage types vs blood and sansha, CNR can get 100% EM damage.
The CNR only requires 1 TP and it's only really needed when shooting cruisers.
Past 40km you're damage starts to drop off quite a bit, not that it's an issue for the mach because it goes over 600m/s but navigating to targets is an extra hassle, I like to just sit in one place in missions and augment my damage with some sentry drones or just slowboat to the next gate while killing stuff.
Mach definitely has the edge on missions where NPCs spawn at closer range or quickly move towards you, but the CNR can be doing max damage to targets out at 90km which is great in many situations like the warp in for worlds collide.
Not saying the CNR is better, it most likely isn't the stronger of the 2, but they are really closely matched.
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Sean Faust
Gallente
Point of No Return
Waterboard
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:23:00 -
[19]
Firstly, I can see that you're dead set on a Marauder, which means you want the isk/h that can only come from salvaging while you mission. High DPS pirate BS's such as the Nightmare and Mach can't do this so I won't waste my time recommending those.
Vargur is better than Golem for Amarr missions because Golem when fitted with Cruise missiles isn't all that great, and many Amarr missions send you up against NPCs that sit well outside of Torp range.
Now, ideally you'd be better off in a Paladin than either, and by far, but that wasn't what you asked. Go Vargur for faster mission completion times with the ability to salvage while you mission. Instant damage + superior range to Torp Golemn = faster killing.
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Kuvaki
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:42:00 -
[20]
to be quite honest, if i active tank my rattlesnake i expect to die and fairly quikly because i get lots of neut missions,
for the guy that said i cant be nowhere near a marauder,(sorry new to the whole forum thing, cant realy do the fancy quotes so bare with me) im missing 2 30 day skills and 2-3 10d or so skills, and then the weapon system to be in my nearest one,
and i think ill start working om minmatar stuff for the vargur, i like the idea of more tank and even if i have to swap out hardeners, and i was looking into minmatar for pvp, so this would essecialy kill 2 birds with 1 stone i would think 0.o
thanks everyone for your opinions and comments,
fly safe =3
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Djavo
Midas Tycho
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:43:00 -
[21]
Nightmare hands down!
Bloody awesome ship.
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Mike712
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:47:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Mike712 on 12/01/2011 14:47:01
If you do happen to go with the vargur, here's a great and not overly expensive fit for one:
[Vargur, Lv4 Vargur]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II
Large Projectile Collision Accelerator II
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.12 15:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sazkyen
Originally by: Aslord
i own and use all marauders and pirate battleships (all T2 spec ready) and run missions in amarr space. It's true that each have it unique advantages,however if you want one battleship, the mach is on average the "best" to own.
Yeah.
I wish it had one more middle slot. Ofc one could wish for a lot of things.
That'd be nice but truly it doesn't need it.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Kuvaki
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:13:00 -
[24]
Mike your vargur fit looks alot like the 1 my freind uses except he uses a tracking comp with scripts instead of the 3rd hardener, not sure what script tho, and i am closer to the golem by 2 or 3 weeks but i think im going to go with the vargur, because defenders do nothing to missiles and minmatar is still pretty good at pvp, personaly i dont think i would like to pvp with missiles much even if they get better range. would i be able to use either of the marauders against bloods tho? active tank and neuts sounds like a death warrent to me.
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Mike712
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kuvaki
Mike your vargur fit looks alot like the 1 my freind uses except he uses a tracking comp with scripts instead of the 3rd hardener, not sure what script tho, and i am closer to the golem by 2 or 3 weeks but i think im going to go with the vargur, because defenders do nothing to missiles and minmatar is still pretty good at pvp, personaly i dont think i would like to pvp with missiles much even if they get better range. would i be able to use either of the marauders against bloods tho? active tank and neuts sounds like a death warrent to me.
With a well fit faction BS/marauder stuff dies so fast I've never found neuting to be much of an issue.
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Kuvaki
Care Factor
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:33:00 -
[26]
oh ok, thanks very much for the advice everyone, and thanks for the fit mike really apreciate the help 
now i just have to get the training done hehe, well maybe take my time and get somemore supports first... some navigation and electronics... there some of my lowest skills currently, being able to lock target a lil further away than my guns can shoot would be a big advantage lol...
fly safe all,
Individualy reliable, Collectivly diciplned |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:38:00 -
[27]
You will also want Multiplexing for flying a Marauder. :)
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
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