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New Dev Blog: CSM December Summit - Meeting minutes (Part 3of 3)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Cailais Amarr Random Pirate's	Posted - 2011.01.15 15:41:00 - [1] "The CSM provided strong feedback, and expressed significant concerns, to CCP about the Incarna features and development plans that were disclosed to them" This does not sound good. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Cailais Amarr Random Pirate's	Posted - 2011.01.22 14:22:00 - [2] The problem currently is that the logistic short cuts to fuel null sec are also the self same short cuts that reduce the volume of space between protagonists. Jump bridges shorten the battlefield for both the ammo truck and the tank - which means null sec is actually considerably smaller than you might think looking at pure system count. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Cailais Amarr Random Pirate's	Posted - 2011.01.22 15:00:00 - [3] Originally by: Falin Whalen Jump bridges are NOT killing small scale fights/ganks... All jump bridges do is ....help defenders get in front of/trap a small roaming gangs, er sorry? C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Cailais Amarr Ukomi Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.23 00:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Falin Whalen Originally by: Cailais The problem currently is that the logistic short cuts to fuel null sec are also the self same short cuts that reduce the volume of space between protagonists. And this is bad how? Quote: Jump bridges shorten the battlefield for both the ammo truck and the tank - which means null sec is actually considerably smaller than you might think looking at pure system count. Again, this is bad how? JBs, don't shorten the battlefield, it shortens the space BEHIND the battlefield. To conquer the space you have to "march" through it, you can't magically plop down a bridge at your staging POS when you don't have sov yet. When you do take sov, it is still three weeks before you can. The space 'behind the battlefield' is where small gangs could, at least potentially, have an effect in terms of behind the lines raids. The JB network allows rapid redeployment to counter such threats making this tactic largely useless. The same generally applies to the use of super capitals - the ability to rapidly re deploy force anywhere at vey high speed. Making JB networks more vulnerable to sabotage by small gangs might be a potential solution. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Cailais Amarr Ukomi Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.23 00:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Cailais on 23/01/2011 00:22:53 Edited by: Cailais on 23/01/2011 00:22:41 Originally by: Falin Whalen Originally by: Cailais The problem currently is that the logistic short cuts to fuel null sec are also the self same short cuts that reduce the volume of space between protagonists. And this is bad how? Well self evidently it means your arena is much smaller, condensing the forces involved and making mass fleet fights the exclusive form of warfare. It quite probably puts more stress on the servers and may be a contributing factor towards lag. It also means that a given % of EVE is simply irrelevant as its just hoped over. It's like removing a % of null sec. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Cailais Amarr Ukomi Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.23 22:35:00 - [6] Originally by: Falin Whalen Originally by: Cailais Edited by: Cailais on 23/01/2011 00:22:53 Edited by: Cailais on 23/01/2011 00:22:41 Originally by: Falin Whalen Originally by: Cailais The problem currently is that the logistic short cuts to fuel null sec are also the self same short cuts that reduce the volume of space between protagonists. And this is bad how? Well self evidently it means your arena is much smaller, condensing the forces involved and making mass fleet fights the exclusive form of warfare. It quite probably puts more stress on the servers and may be a contributing factor towards lag. It also means that a given % of EVE is simply irrelevant as its just hoped over. It's like removing a % of null sec. C. Really? So putting enemies closer together is bad? I should have known coming from an Empire carebear. Maybe we should all sit by a campfire and sing songs instead. Mass fleet fights will not go away when JBs are gone. Want to get rid of that "irrelevant" space that is just hoped over? Make it valuable for larger alliances to rent out, install with pets, finally have treaties with small alliances(something Dominion promised but never materialized), or if valuable enough have the alliances shrink down to use it themselves. Really your automatic gainsay of anything positive about 0.0 life and politics colors you as a sour, uninformed, Empire carebear. Run along now and complete some more L4s while the grownups talk. You can, of course, resort to personal attacks but I'm afraid that doesnt improve your argument or make it any more valid. Quite the opposite in fact. Im wholly for large scale massed fleet fights, but I would also like to see relevant perimeter clashes and alternative tactics being employed. You seem to want to reduce EVE into a giant 1 side vs another side game. This view, in my opinion, lacks complexity and isnt particularly interesting. The reducing pvp count seems to indicate that I am not the only one who views this issue in the same way. If, as you say, massed fleet fights can survive the removal or reduction of JB networks then why have them? Is it purely to reduce the 'boredom' of logistics? Because, if logistics is so dull why bother with ANY of it? Why not just auto spawn ships for players? C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Cailais Amarr Ukomi Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.24 11:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Falin Whalen Originally by: Cailais If, as you say, massed fleet fights can survive the removal or reduction of JB networks then why have them? 0.0 is not Empire, where every system has a perfect refine station(sometimes more than one), with 50 manufacturing slots, and ME/PE/copy/invention slots too. The industrialists in 0.0, just can't go to the next system over, to pick up the 350km3 of Tritanium that they got on sale in absolute safety of Empire, like you can go to the chemists, or green grocers today. For 0.0 think of that trip as if you had to do it in the Beirut of the 80's or Sarajevo of the 90's, and everything is 5-20 blocks away. Wouldn't you want to shorten that trip? Yes, you would want to - but that's the frailty of null sec logistics. And those logistic chains could, conceivably, be cut as part of a war effort. If escorting cargo is "boring" then we need to ask why, and how that might be improved. Perhaps it's impossible or too difficult - again how might that be improved upon? There are of course innumerable answers - perhaps Jump Bridge networks are semi permanent, more vulnerable structures that aren't 'tied to' the POS? The key thing, in my mind at any rate, is that they allow the movement not only of industrial supplies but also combat power. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Cailais Amarr Ukomi Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.24 23:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Falin Whalen Oh well, when you pubbies have had your way, and wonder why 0.0 still isn't the magical rainbow PEW PEW space battlefield, like you thought it would be, after you "fix" NULSEC. I'll just sit back, laugh, and smugly tell you, "I told you so." CCP has such a wonderful track record for "fixing" problems in 0.0 that don't end up becoming even more hilariously broken, or with more unintended consequences, right? CCP's record may not be great, that's why input is valuable. Have a read of my blog post on the subject of JBs and see what you think (in my sig). C. the hydrostatic capsule blog

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