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Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
323
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 22:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
This particular subtlety of FCing has me fascinated so I direct this question to the grunts in a fleet;
Do you prefer for the FC to call targets by;
A) pronouncing the name followed by ship type B) spelling out the first three letters of the name follow by ship type
I ask because based on my experience, I find both versions can impact fleet performance both positively and negatively. Specifically, because of how a person's brain interprets and processes information, both styles affect how quickly a grunt can locate the target within their overview and perform the necessary combat activity on that target.
I postulate that 'B' is preferred over 'A' because it is easier for a grunt to understand the letters as they are enunciated rather than hear an entire name which can be spelled in multiple ways.
Think of "Jaime". Some may interpret the name with a hard 'J' and others interpret it as a silent 'J'. If the FC pronounces that as a silent J, then grunts may get tripped up as they are not familiar with that version of Jaime. They spend more time than necessary trying to locate "Highmy" which isn't on the overview.
Anyone who has called targets understands how lolzy it gets when pronouncing really weird names of various toons that contains a combination of letters and numbers. This trips up the FC and affects the fleet's performance. And don't get me started with international FCs who have thick accents and how this scenario plays out in a fleet fight.
And as I sit here and explain the logic for 'B', I have talked to a few pilots and they say their preference is 'A'. It turns out that many of them actually prefer to hear the entire name rather than just the first three letters. Why is that? Perhaps that is what they are familiar with and their brain doesn't wish to start processing information differently now?
Thoughts? What do you prefer?
PS- Yes, I am aware of the broadcasting feature. But FCs don't always broadcast due to a variety of reasons which is beyond the scope of this discussion. And I don't consider it fail if someone doesn't always broadcast. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog
C'est La Eve :) |

Katie Frost
Asgard. Exodus.
89
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 22:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
It really depends on the size of the fight.
Naturally with your overview filled with hostile ships, the most reliable method would be to broadcast the target. Generally PvP overviews are sorted by distance, so unless each pilot sorts it by 'ship type' or 'player name' it can take a while for either of your options to become effective.
However, for the sake of pronunciation, I think option (B) would be generally preferred, unless the name is something fairly simple to pronounce... like Katie Frost... hmmm... so that's why I get primaried... which would mean that option (A) can be utilised. So to answer your question: easy name = option A; hard name = option B.
I would argue though that neither (A) nor (B) are effective target-calling options, as they have their own ambiguities in a generally tense situation. Broadcasting is the only foolproof way to call targets in a fight.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
168
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 23:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
It only really becomes a concern if you're fighting the Russians.
Primary.... XX1123VASILYXX123 Secondary... XX1123VAS1LYXX123
Fuggen Russians.
PS - When I've called targets in the past I've used both depending of the situation. Like 20 drakes its pointless calling drake of ... whoever, often better to use the first few letters.
But easily pronouncible names or varying shiptypes is easier, quicker and more effective to call by shiptype / name. So both and neither. Hope this helps Deen. |

Katalci
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
122
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 23:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Broadcast the primary, then say something like "This guy in the Hurricane," "The Scorpion dude," etc. If the name is easy to say, say it; if it's not, spell it out. |

Julius Foederatus
Hyper-Nova
108
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 02:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:It only really becomes a concern if you're fighting the Russians.
Primary.... XX1123VASILYXX123 Secondary... XX1123VAS1LYXX123
Fuggen Russians.
PS - When I've called targets in the past I've used both depending of the situation. Like 20 drakes its pointless calling drake of ... whoever, often better to use the first few letters.
But easily pronouncible names or varying shiptypes is easier, quicker and more effective to call by shiptype / name. If people don't understand an Englishman pronouncing stuff in English then they are probably spazzes and we're all going to die anyway.
So both and neither. Hope this helps Deen.
Well then people from Yorkshire are either not english, or don't speak english, cause no one can ******* understand them.
On topic, I think it's best to do both, in the order you put down, as the name requires. Sometimes it's obvious what it is, sometimes it requires you to spell it out in addition. Also broadcasting helps but can get lost in the sea of other broadcasts unless you separate them out on the broadcast history filter, and even then you have to find the space for them. |

Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
377
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 05:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
In Faction Warfare, where you are fighting the same enemies a lot, it isn't that difficult to simply pronounce the names as most people in your fleet are going to be familiar with the enemy. Outside of this kind of environment, probably spelling the first few letters or simply resorting to broadcast target are the most efficient. Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
252
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 05:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:In Faction Warfare, where you are fighting the same enemies a lot, it isn't that difficult to simply pronounce the names as most people in your fleet are going to be familiar with the enemy. Outside of this kind of environment, probably spelling the first few letters or simply resorting to broadcast target are the most efficient. Same reason why entities who have a stable of FCs with whom they fly (ex. the 'old' PL) are "better" than the random-bloke-with-a-mic FC scenario, one simply (as a fleet/gang sheep) learns what the screaming/grunting means by way of familiarity.
In limited engagements with less than 40 reds it is usually possible to pronounce names in such a way that they are easily identified, might not be accurate but it gets the wrecks/loot/tears spawned.
Without it one has to resort to all the silly sort by name, range, type and what not which is rather silly. Support the various petitions in AH to get a revamped UI where in-game tools can be used to easily call targets (tagging is slow as hell) so that the FC position is opened up to more people. |

Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
323
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 06:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
I should clarify that the post isn't about how to call targets, which is how some people responded. It's about what people prefer to hear and why.
I do both; say the names most times and try to say the first few letters if it's a difficult one. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |

Carnilion
Wurmloch Freelancer New Eden Industrie Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 07:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wasn't there a Keyshortcut to mark a target as Primary and Secondary? Can't remember... And if so, is it used? |

San Severina
Hoplite Brigade
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 07:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
I prefer to pretend I give a $hit what the primary is & just shoot the people I wanna shoot. If that doesn't work repeating the name & ship type(if applicable) plus repeatedly naming the secondary & some idea of what will be priority after that is always good. |

Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
78
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 08:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Broadcast set to move broadcast targets to top.. that is all... |

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
168
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 09:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Julius Foederatus wrote:
Well then people from Yorkshire are either not english, or don't speak english, cause no one can ******* understand them.
On topic, I think it's best to do both, in the order you put down, as the name requires. Sometimes it's obvious what it is, sometimes it requires you to spell it out in addition. Also broadcasting helps but can get lost in the sea of other broadcasts unless you separate them out on the broadcast history filter, and even then you have to find the space for them.
No, you're just a spazz. 
Most Yorkshire folk speak a clear and lovely version of the Queen's English.... Look at Sean Bean or Slaphead Picard - Yorkshire bred actors of world repute with arguably the best voices on't der telebox!
Admittedly though, every place has its own brand of redneck weirdos capable of being barely understood, Yorkshire and Kentucky included - best they not target call tbh.
Just to reiterate for Deen, I prefer shiptype / full name or then if it has to be due to circumstances of unpronouncable names it done phonetically. |

Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 14:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
FCs i have flown with used every method you can think about. If the FC has an accent i cant understand, it doesn't matter how he spell things.
A few fleets i have been in have someone typing in fleet chat what the FC says in short, very short, but i cant miss that :)
Edit: Repeating ten times also works. |

March rabbit
R.I.P. Legion Red Alliance
242
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 15:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
as grunt i don't care which from given variants will use FC. You know: we russians have very similar and easy to understand english (between russians ) so i have no problems with finding targets in overview.
Problem only happens when i have wrong set up of overview (like FC starts to call logistics pilots and my overview pages don't contain such set up). |

Dersk
90040045
115
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 21:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
I have a preference for the format of "Primary is romeo india victor, riverini in the tornado." Unfortunately no one uses that method. Although that involves a few more syllables than usual, it only takes too long when targets are dying too easily and quickly to justify full fleet coordination on damage.
When I abandon hopes of finding a particular name in time to properly assist in damage, all command afterwards sound like the following:
Set Auto-Repeat Off Clear group (weapons) Sort by name, descending. Lock target, fire one volley. Unlock target. Laugh at all the idiots that can't pronounce words like zealot and anathema. |

Roderick Grey
House Of Serenity. Unprovoked Aggression
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 22:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dersk wrote:I Laugh at all the idiots that can't pronounce words like zealot and anathema.
Laughing at the idiot who thinks there's a "right "way to pronounce them.
Zelot/Zealot - Ana-thema/Anathema who cares? |

Charles Baker
Aliastra Gallente Federation
205
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 22:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Broadcast is your friend, when in doubt, KILL THE ONE I POINTED DAMNIT! |

Dan Osiris
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
41
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 00:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm waiting for someone to create a pvp toon named 'Primary Primary' or similar to that extent. |

Dan Carter Murray
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 04:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:This particular subtlety of FCing has fascinated me so I direct this question to the grunts in a fleet;
Do you prefer for the FC to call targets by;
A) pronouncing the name followed by ship type B) spelling out the first three letters of the name follow by ship type
I ask because based on my experience, I find both versions can impact fleet performance both positively and negatively. Specifically, because of how a person's brain interprets and processes information, both styles affect how quickly a grunt can locate the target within their overview and perform the necessary combat activity on that target.
I postulate that 'B' is preferred over 'A' because it is easier for a grunt to understand the letters as they are enunciated rather than hear an entire name which can be spelled in multiple ways.
Think of "Jaime". Some may interpret the name with a hard 'J' and others interpret it as a silent 'J'. If the FC pronounces that as a silent J, then grunts may get tripped up as they are not familiar with that version of Jaime. They spend more time than necessary trying to locate "Highmy" which isn't on the overview.
Anyone who has called targets understands how lolzy it gets when pronouncing really weird names of various toons that contains a combination of letters and numbers. This trips up the FC and affects the fleet's performance. And don't get me started with international FCs who have thick accents and how this scenario plays out in a fleet fight.
And as I sit here and explain the logic for 'B', I have talked to a few pilots and they say their preference is 'A'. It turns out that many of them actually prefer to hear the entire name rather than just the first three letters. Why is that? Perhaps that is what they are familiar with and their brain doesn't wish to start processing information differently now?
Thoughts? What do you prefer?
PS- Yes, I am aware of the broadcasting feature. But FCs don't always broadcast due to a variety of reasons which is beyond the scope of this discussion. And I don't consider it fail if someone doesn't always broadcast.
prefer 3 letters + shipname.
unless x gal is there then we just say "x gal primary" even if he's 700km away cloaked in a velator...j/k x gal 
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Dan Carter Murray
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 04:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dan Osiris wrote:I'm waiting for someone to create a pvp toon named 'Primary Primary' or similar to that extent.
how about "Merightnowandpodmetoo"
|

Geoscape
RvB - BLUE Republic
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 19:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
I remember an E-Uni FC who called new targets by their first 3 letters (Nato alphabet) while existing targets were called by the name.
Example: "primary Gamma Echo Oscar"
You may laugh but it worked very well. Rather than having to learn the myriad of different ways to pronounce all the various names we only had to learn the 37 pronunciations for the characters. It is also much easier to recall than complete names. |

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
828
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 20:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Always broadcast targets, there is a hotkey for broadcasting for a reason. Nobody should be locking anything that isn't broadcasted (except for antisupport and tackle, who won't be shooting the primary anyway). Deciding which one of the three targets you have locked the FC called is elementary school level of challenge - heck even CFC fleets sometimes manage to get it mostly right. |

Fairren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 01:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dan Osiris wrote:I'm waiting for someone to create a pvp toon named 'Primary Primary' or similar to that extent.
like that |

Papa Sotken
Cadre Assault Force
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 03:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Had this discussion recently. Although names misheard can cause mishaps.
The 3 letters thing is just alot more difficult.
Ship type + name. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1671223#post1671223
Cadre Assault Force Recruiting New/Old players who are looking for gang pvp. EU TZ Based. |

Aaewen Hrothgarson
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 08:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
I prefer them to broadcast.
Secondly, I wish for them taking their time to name the target. Better 5 seconds and everybody understands than three times three seconds and still no one has a clue.
Also getting overexcited and repeat yourself over and over (in a voice that is suddenly one octave higher) makes one look bad as a FC. |

SB Rico
the united Negative Ten.
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 09:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
From a brain processing point of view it is worth noting that the human brain tends to process beginnings and ends of words to identify a word, if a word cannot be identified in this way the brain then processes the letters in order.
So...
For identifiable names the best way to make them quickly locatable is to read them, for names which are not actual words/names the first three letters is better |

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
161
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 05:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Aaewen Hrothgarson wrote:I prefer them to broadcast.
Secondly, I wish for them taking their time to name the target. Better 5 seconds and everybody understands than three times three seconds and still no one has a clue.
Also getting overexcited and repeat yourself over and over (in a voice that is suddenly one octave higher) makes one look bad as a FC.
I liked this a lot. The best way to fight is when your calm. PvP does pump you up (or it wouldn't be fun), but getting overamped is like a disease, it can spread to the whole fleet. That attitude starts with the FC.
I have a 'thing' about names in eve. I try to get them right and I look at them closely. Same with solar systems/gates. If a guy pronounces names reasonably close, I find them right away.
When I call, I use names, and then ship type. 'Bob in the Brutix' for instance. And as Rico said, some names just have to be spelled out. xHxHx in the Cane for example. (real player) What I am bad at, is broadcasting. I need another fleet member to do that for me if possible. FC is usually looking at overview, mentally sorting targets, listening to comms, flying his own ship, counting wrecks, pods, missing pilots, etc.
A lot of this is dependant on the fleet makeup. If you know all the guys in fleet, and they know you, then it goes smooth no matter how your style is. But if it's a fleet of newbs and strangers? Half of them prolly won't shoot the primary anyway... They are too busy freaking out or flying away.
To the OP Deen, I think its reasonable to put that responsablity on THEM, the fleet members. You call it how you like and they need to figure it out or die. The word "Primary" seems to be the one they don't comprehend sometimes. And the killmails will show you who isn' |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1292
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 11:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Julius Foederatus wrote:Well then people from Yorkshire are either not english, or don't speak english, cause no one can ******* understand them. http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/25359019.jpg My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 16:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Geoscape wrote:I remember an E-Uni FC who called new targets by their first 3 letters (Nato alphabet) while existing targets were called by the name.
Example: "primary Gamma Echo Oscar"
You may laugh but it worked very well. Rather than having to learn the myriad of different ways to pronounce all the various names we only had to learn the 37 pronunciations for the characters. It is also much easier to recall than complete names. Someone didn't know their NATO alphabet then. G is Golf. |

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
162
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 18:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
We had a Yorkie chap in another game I played. Was a great guy, BUT: Even the other Britts had to sort out what he was saying sometimes. Made for a lotta lol's.

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