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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.17 16:53:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Shobon Welp Alliances that put in the effort and put down the infrastructure gain the benefit. 0.0 is only 'safer' than highsec in the sense that alliances provide the security themselves and human brains are better able to work towards mutual protection than NPCs.
Why is everyone so obsessed with making 0.0 life filled with as much time-consuming and un-fun bull**** as possible? I realise that highsec nobodies who've never stepped outside Motsu and Jita have a limited grip on what EVE is, but the idea that players spending an hour warping through empty systems to fight for 3 minutes would be good for EVE, or that 'sorry guys, we can't do the roaming HAC op tonight because we need you to escort our freighters for 30 jumps instead' is going to make people want to log in and play, isn't based on anything resembling objective game concerns.
This. Without jump bridges, 0.0 would become even more carebear land. No one would travel anywhere, so null space would be even safer just because of the fact that it is huge and mostly empty.
You like those shiny faction modules and ships? I'm sorry, I'm not going to run gates to bring them back to Jita to sell them. You want that dread guristas module, you come out to null sec to get it.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.17 17:12:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Bagehi on 17/01/2011 17:15:21
Originally by: Massive Dragon you are either really stupid or... wait nvm.
Say whatever you want. Removing jump bridges will only make the space I fly safer. Which sucks for me, because I play Eve for PVP, not ratting. Some small alliance isn't going to be able to move in near the current alliances with or without bridges. They'd still get stomped on - if for no other reason than there wasn't much else to shoot.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.17 20:10:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Bagehi on 17/01/2011 20:11:21
Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: Ephemeron I am old enough to remember 0.0 before jump bridges, and I can assure you that it was very lively. There was lots of traffic - MORE than there is now. Even tho there was less people per system, there was a lot of small scale activity
If anything, 0.0 has become MORE carebear now that it has ever been. Jump bridges, super safe logistics - these things are there to make carebearing easy. That was the whole purpose behind the original idea - make 0.0 safe.
Removing jump bridges would be a move toward hardcore PvP, away from carebearism - by definition. Of course, I can understand that there are a lot of 0.0 residents who got fat slow and lazy and would cry if they had to return to tougher life. Well, sometimes a little exercise is good for you. You'll be glad for it in the long run
You sir nailed it right on the money. People got lazy.
Lazy? This is a video game, it is supposed to be fun, not mind-numbing work (which is what jumping 20-30 jumps really is). I prefer to be paid to do mind-numbing work and would rather not have to pay to do it.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.17 20:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Romulus Silvia its funny that the nc complain about this. i mean, their jumpbridge network is only 9 regions small.
I've been in a number of different alliances: most have been at odds with the NC. I am definitely not a spokesperson for the NC. Honestly, I think the NC is rather bloated. However, if you want to fix that, enemies have to be able to strike deep inside the NC. You aren't going to convince the NC to turn on each other by getting rid of their ability to project force. The NC has way too many carebears.
PVP is only done to protect the space the NC has. The NC would absolutely love no bridges as they would see an enemy fleet coming for the hour or more it took for it to actually get somewhere (don't forget, spies everywhere) and be sitting there waiting for them (much like they already do). The bridges are the only way to create an element of surprise (in that once the attacking fleet is formed it can relatively quickly move to attack anywhere).
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.17 21:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Venkul Mul A possible "counter move" by large NAP trains would be to select some 0.0 station as common trading hubs where they will exchange the different products.
In that scenario the group of blue alliances will become even more tightly knitted together instead of fracturing as they will have an interest in keeping the multi alliance trading hubs operative and well protected at the center of the blue territory.
That doesn't already happen to a certain extent?
I can name 2 NC hubs off the top of my head. I was at one yesterday picking up a couple skillbooks that (prior to being in the NC) I would've never expected to be able to buy in null sec.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.18 00:04:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Bagehi on 18/01/2011 00:04:15
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote: And who will mine the minerals for your ships?
Most of the minerals come from high sec empire. Half from botters, half from countless level 3/4 mission runners who refine their loot.
Most 0.0 alliances just buy minerals in empire and bridge them to their little outposts, why bother mining in 0.0?
How are you going to bridge without bridges? You can't remove bridges and then argue that people can just bridge their stuff in.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.18 02:45:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Bagehi on 18/01/2011 02:46:35
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Bagehi How are you going to bridge without bridges? You can't remove bridges and then argue that people can just bridge their stuff in.
Jump freighters will be unaffected. And then there are titan bridges.
I was once roaming Delve and seen how BoB titan was bridging 8 freighters. Dunno what they were hauling.
Anyway, it'd be silly to argue that logistics would remain easy. No, the main idea behind removing jump bridges is to make logistics harder - more dangerous. So alliance people only develop and maintain systems they really care about. So people actually use star gates in 0.0 and risk PvP. You may worry about your alliance becoming more vulnerable, but don't forget that your enemies will have exact same problems.
Honestly, I'm more worried about not getting any PVP without flying a gazillion jumps to find it. I also do not want to have to babysit miners/haulers for the majority of the time I'm on.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.20 16:25:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Bagehi on 20/01/2011 16:27:59
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Ephemeron People who haven't played EVE before jump bridges were introduces cannot be taken seriously on their "predictions" of what would happen.
We already know exactly what would happen. Most of the devs will remember it personally. It was no doomsday scenario. The game was growing quickly, 0.0 was populated. There was plenty of traffic. We know for a fact that EVE will do just fine.
Before Revelations 2 was released in mid-2007 and jump bridges seeded, nearly all of 0.0 sov was divided between 3 major powerblocs (the RSF, GBC, and NC). The only real exceptions were Providence (because CVA lived there) and the Drone Regions (Because RA were still fighting in the south east and hadn't yet fractured to create Solar Fleet and XDeath).
But clearly its all the fault of the jump bridges, right guys?
This. I was in a medium-sized alliance around the time jump bridges came out that tried to get into null sec. We were given the ultimatum "if you aren't NC then you are with Bob." Claiming there were three major power blocks at that time is almost a stretch. I understand you are proud of Goon heritage and all, but in the grand scheme of things you guys were pretty small beans back then.
Removing bridges won't break up the blocks, if anything, they will probably become tighter. Again, I will point out that if you want to open up null space, you need to increase the ability to project force in null sec. This means alliances/blocks don't have time to worry about the little guys as they are more constantly under threat of attack by the other power blocks.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:21:00 -
[9]
You want to make space bigger, let us blow up stations.
Stations are more to blame for how spread out alliances are than bridges. If there wasn't a station in near every single large alliance null sec system, people wouldn't be as spread out. Bridges wouldn't be used to connect all the ratting grounds. It would take time and warfare, but the sandbox would then be molded by the players rather than some artificial intervention by CCP.
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