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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.22 14:21:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Massive Dragon
no offence finnagain but for someone who puts so much emphasis on stats and pvp knowledge... you seem to have very little of either: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=FinnAgain+Zero
now if youd like to continue telling us how much you know about this game... and how little we do... i understand.
Massive Dragon are you completely stupid? Are you? It is very, very clear that FinnAgain Zero has an absolutely exemplary pvp career with 1667 kills and 70 losses. This quite vast and obvious career which has been spent in 0.0 is being trolled by an ignorant idiot posting with an alt with absoloutely no history of pvp.
Massive Dragon you really do need to stop trolling you are absolutely clueless.
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.22 14:59:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Massive Dragon
nb. a sandbox game does not mean i get to fit 9 turrets on my apoc because i feel like it.
This is the problem with your argument.
If you could fit 9 turrets on an apoc then this would need addressing since an apoc has 8 turret slots. I canÆt fit 9 turrets to my apoc because it only has 8 slots. I can however use this apoc with 8 slots to do pretty much whatever I choose to.
Jump bridges are being used for whatever use people see fit for them. Now if jump bridges were being used to jump a titan to Jita then this would need addressing. People can't to my knowledge use jump bridges to jump titans to Jita 4-4 because they feel like it. There is no problem with jump bridges to my knowledge they are working as they were intended to be.
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.22 15:15:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Massive Dragon
i guess if ccp decided to remove jumpbridges from the game and patched that in it would be a mistake... because they wouldnt have intended for that change!!!
how do you exist... seriously...
"your knowledge is incomplete and at a different standard to other people"
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.22 16:47:00 -
[4]
You have shifted your argument.
First you were saying:
Originally by: Massive Dragon that it is working as intended, but it is not. it is working how you want it to work. not as it was intended and certainly not in a manner which is providing the most ballance and fun.
Now you are saying:
Originally by: Massive Dragon ccp is not happy with the way these mechanics work currently (and rightly so imo)
With reference to the Eve Online Wiki:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Jump_Bridge
ôA jump bridge is a static emplacement that allows a ship to move great distances, without the assistance of anyone else online. These are commonly put into networks, allowing a ship to move up to their 0.0 home quickly.
By placing these structures, alliances create a highway system that allows very fast travel through 0.0 space. They are a time saver of immense proportions, and allow for the players to have more access to their home systems deep in 0.0
Jump bridges also facilitate the quick response ability to alliances when attacked. traditionally a system may be 30 jumps from your home system. If you were attacked there, it would take you 30 jumps X (X number of minutes per jump) to get to your destination. With jump bridges, a system 30 jumps away may only be 3 using the jump bridge technology.ö
Do you understand that Jump Bridges are working as intended whether or not you, CCP or anyone else agrees with this or not?
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.22 20:40:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Memcoll on 22/01/2011 20:40:32
Originally by: Tertiacero
So basically CCP wants to nerf how easy it is to maintain a super coalition. CSM agreed that it needed to be done. Jump bridges were mentioned. Cue rage about how unfair it is that someone wants to try to encourage more pvp in a pvp game.
Honestly though I can't believe that you honestly believe the **** that you're typing right now. You're making your whole alliance look bad right now
CCP wants to nerf how easy it is to maintain a super coalition? They probably do they really are that stupid. CSM agreed that it needed to be done? What the hell do the CSM think they are doing? There is no way that can be representative of the super coalitions.
Cue rage about how unfair it is that someone wants to try to encourage more pvp in a pvp game? What the hell are you talking about? That is the stupidest thing I have heard. How completely ridiculous. The rage is for someone trying to nerf jump bridges.
It is you Tertiacero that is making your alliance look bad.
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:32:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Memcoll on 22/01/2011 23:34:30
Originally by: "" Greyscale feels that reduction in mobility will decrease need for big coalitions, because huge coalition blobs won't be able to move as fast; result should be smaller local wars.
It is noted that the cost of supporting coalition allies will increase, which will increase friction; coalitions may fragment
This is astonishing. A member of CCP wants to "increase friction" if you said anything like that in customer service about any of your customers you would be fired.
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.23 00:14:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Memcoll on 23/01/2011 00:14:49
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
except that EVE is built on conflict. PVP. also, remember, wars boost economy. more ship explosions is good for everyone.
haha yes you are right of course . Its more the case of CCP's attitude that I am concerned about.
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.23 19:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles This is lool, now Finn, through his blind support of whats best for the NC is a self professed "defender of the rights of the people"? You watch Fox news too much. By the way, focusing on the speaker instead of the argument, is ad hominem, and trying to set yourself as an authority and claiming your opinion has more weight because you are somehow an authority (of what, using the word troll gratuitously?) is appeal to authority. If you are gonna throw the term fallacy around, at least learn what they are and don't be a hypocryte.
So what are you doing in response?
Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles
I missed the part where Greyscale says "I'm bringing down the NC", "They be sandboxing wrong" or any of the bull**** you put in his mouth.
Do you really not understand what CCP/CSM are trying to do?
Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles
He correctly points out logistics and movement are too easy
Your opinion I assume.
Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles
and proposes ways to fix (which are supported by the payer base and CSM!).
Are they they supported by the player base? Read this thread it is clear that while many do many don't. We are talking about the way CCP/CSM are trying to fix things not the very fact they are trying to fix.
Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles
He correctly notes some of the effects that these changes may very well bring.
Yet again your opinion that "He correctly notes" this may well be the case of course.
Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles
However the professed goal is to make 0.0 less "hello kitty online" and more "eve".
The professed goal? This is highly subjective. Do you really feel that removeing player created networks using sanctioned and functioning game mechanics make the game "more eve"?
Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles
Finally, your 5 year old with crayons analogy is utter bull****, a better one is that one day the devs bring a cat. ITs nice for a bit but then stands ****ing in the sand box. This is not desired behaviour. However some kids have learned to use the **** to their advantage, making little sand **** castles and whatnot. When the dev proposes to remove the cat and the cat ****, Finn, one of the people that have taken to the ****, objects, claiming that they are nobody to tell him whether he is sand boxing right or wrong, and if he likes ****, that is his problem. Most others, however, rightly find the cat **** disgusting.
Your analogy is outrageously stupid and quite frankly is not suitable.
Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles
Is there anything you say that is not loaded with weasel statements? equaling Greyscale and the people that make this game with 5 year olds replacing your ships with crayon drawings is just lol. By the way, the only troll in this thread, is you. This has been conclusively established.
You are the troll. ANYONE can see that.
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles
And the bit about "done specifically to reshape player created politics"? You do know how to read, right? I missed the part in the minutes where it is stated that it is their specific goal, but rather their projected results of such a move.
Both you and Finn can read but only Finn understands. Do you really think that CCP will state ôIt is our specific goal to break player created contentö? You can see and have stated ôbut rather their projected results of such a moveö. Now why do you think CCP made such a projection? Come on man think!
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.26 20:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Massive Dragon
should these changes go through, that choice is unimpeeded by any potential changes. more to the point, this game was a sandbox game before jumpbridges or titan bridges were ever used. so suggesting that their removal would somehow stop this game being a sandbox game is verging on mad panic.
Finn had the choice to join an alliance with politics that were created by the players. Simply because he still has a choice to join an alliance after some of the open ended content created by the players has been closed by CCP is no argument at all.
The jump bridges were given to us to use as we saw fit to create our open ended content. If the jump bridges are removed then that content is closed off by being destroyed. This one decision alone wouldnÆt suddenly stop eve from being a sandbox game but it does make you think am I really playing a sandbox game?
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.26 20:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Massive Dragon 1. show me where ccp explicitly says this is an attack on player created content
They are not going to are they? Although is it obvious to everyone unless you are completely stupid. Originally by: Massive Dragon (NB. jumpbridges are not player created
No one in this thread has suggested that the jump bridges themselves are player created. The content created with is however. Originally by: Massive Dragon they are an illthought-out inclusion by ccp a few patches ago.)
This is your opinion.
Originally by: Massive Dragon 2. prove to me that should they be interfeering, that it is a bad thing in most cases.
Read this thread.
Originally by: Massive Dragon 3. prove to me that should they be interfeering, that it is a bad thing in this case.
Read this thread.
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.26 21:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Massive Dragon for whatever reason it is
Here is your problem. You donÆt understand
Originally by: Massive Dragon , you and finnagain (im not even sure you are different people at this point)
This is an alt but I am not FinnAgain Originally by: Massive Dragon are refusing to see this from any other perspective than "you just hate us you want us to suffer, thats the goal of this patch".
No and to my best knowledge the changes to jump bridges havenÆt been officialy proposed.
Originally by: Massive Dragon whereas we do not have specific statements from ccp saying "hi we want all coalitions to blanket cascade"
If CCP did want that to happen they are not going to say that are they?
Originally by: Massive Dragon we do have specific statements saying they want to "encourage pvp in null sec".
IÆm sure you are capable of such suggestions without even touching the Jump Bridge debate.
Originally by: Massive Dragon if you could stop being paranoid for about half a second perhaps you would see the benefits this game will derive from these changes.
You know it is possible that the game might benefit to a change in the manner Jump Bridges but thatÆs not why I am posting.
Originally by: Massive Dragon furthermore ccp markets 0.0 as a dangerous environment "where people can attack you with no consequences" there are popup messages every time you jump into these systs should you not disable them saying how dangerous these systems are and how not lightly you should take them.
Okà andà
Originally by: Massive Dragon that ccp accidentaly introduced a poor mechanic
First thing this is your opinion.
Originally by: Massive Dragon that ended up benefiting you
Did it benefit me?
Originally by: Massive Dragon does not mean they did not make a mistake introducing those changes
I donÆt think they made a mistake.
Originally by: Massive Dragon (as they are now realising and saying).
CCP are not saying the Jump Bridges are a mistake they are however not happy with how they are being used.
Originally by: Massive Dragon in fact nearly every terrible argument you have made can be easily applied to the patch when they first introduced jumpbridges.
No.
Originally by: Massive Dragon given ccp now realises the mistake they made, not only do i think they are entitled to undo the harm they have done to the game,
They are entitled to make amends but it is your opinion that they have caused harm.
Originally by: Massive Dragon but i feel as though they have a responcibility to the community.
Yes I agree.
Originally by: Massive Dragon one of the big selling points of this game is that individuals can make a difference in the scope of the game,
I am glad you are citing this. You are still yet to understand that CCP are undermining the scope of the game for what they feel is the ôbetter goodö.
Originally by: Massive Dragon that choice due to the obseen buffs to coalitions have boiled down to "join coalition a or join coa... |
Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.27 11:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Massive Dragon
theres been a lot of crappy sidetracking about ccp shouldnt mess around with what they have already added into the game
This really is what this thread has been about. You have ôside trackedö into a debate about the effect of these possible theoretical changes.
Originally by: Massive Dragon
i dont think any of this other crap matters.
You donÆt understand. The fact that CSM/CCP are in the position of discussing using a game mechanic to institute a potential change to content that we the players created matters.It matters if you like Jump Bridges. It matters if you dislike Jump Bridges.
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Memcoll
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Posted - 2011.01.27 11:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ephemeron so nobody cares about game design of war strategy games, just political and personal mumbo jumbo
great
We are talking about ôpolitical mumbo jumboö as you so ignorantly put it. If you want to talk about the design of war strategy games please do so in your own thread.
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