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Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
470
   |
Posted - 2012.08.17 02:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
So here's a followup to my carrier + BS PVE guide.
The 'read deal' if you will.
Again, people ask about capital escalations all the time.
I have been running escalations in this manner for some time, even 'solo' at times, so here's how it is done.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
JackGÇÖs Guide to Running Sleeper Sites like a Baws
The aim of this guide is to provide a complete rundown of how to properly capital escalate class 5 and 6
sleeper sites.
It assumes basic knowledge of the fact that WH sites capital escalate and how they escalate, along with a working knowledge of the ships involved and wormhole anomalies.
If you do not have said knowledge, you are not ready for this.
What you will need:
1 Triage capable Archon.
2 Moros/Revelation dreadnaughts. (No, you can't bring your Phoenix.)
1 Carrier, any race.
1 Loki.
1 Armour and Skirmish capable fleet booster. (Information is also recommended.)
1 Noctis.
First, a Word to the Wise:
This method of running sites is not noob friendly.
It requires heavy asset, ISK and SP investments to be successful.
Yes, you can run this fleet with level 4 skills across the board on your capital pilots but at this level of investment, don't be a scrub.
Train T2 siege, train gunnery support skills to 5 (yes, all of them), train carrier 5, train dread 5, hell, train salvaging 5.
Don't think about 'is it worth it' to train 45 days for dread 5. You're flying the biggest, baddest ships you can fit into a WH, just train it. (The obvious benefit in PVP is also obvious.)
In Theory:
The basic theory of full capital escalations is simple. Use an Archon for reps, Loki for webs and target painters, dreads for DPS and a second carrier for the last escalation wave.
Fleet boosts are needed to keep everyone alive and get enough range on the webs and the Noctis cleans up.
You should only be killing the escalation battleships and the first wave, making sure to leave 1 trigger alive. Leaving the trigger alive resets the site at downtime and you can run the escalations again the next day.
Anomaly Notes:
Do not run this fleet in a Black Hole, Pulsar or Cataclysmic.
Magnetars are great for Moros dreads but Revs suffer on tracking.
Wolf Rayet is the easiest due to tank bonus.
Red Giant has little effect, it means you can use smart bombs to kill frigs.
In Practice:
The reality of it is that in practice, running capital escalations gets done badly a lot and ends up in lost ships and inefficient site running all too often.
There is a big difference in being able to muddle through an escalation without losing ships and being able to run them well.
When site running goes wrong, most of the time it comes down to horrible fittings or pilots not being prepared for what they are warping into and panicking.
If at all possible, I would highly recommend running with at least one pilot who has run sites successfully before your first few times.
This isnGÇÖt always possible so I will run through what each ship needs to do to stay alive and play its role correctly below.
The Method:
Setting up your fleet is fairly simple.
Booster sits in wing command, loki/first carrier sits in squad command, everything else in squad.
Squad commander tags the BSs.
Warp in your first carrier (Archon) first. As soon as it lands, warp in first dread and Loki, have Loki orbit carrier at 500m.
When the dread comes out of warp, align it back to wherever it came from for fast slow down and siege it when it hits around 5m/s velocity.
From there, web and shoot in order of tags.
Once 4-5 battleships and any battleships from the normal first wave are dead, warp in the second dread.
Once there are 8 battleships left, warp in the second carrier.
Note, the dreads may bump the carrier a bit if it isn't in triage, make sure it stays in refit range of the dreads.
If the trigger is a battleship, keep the second carrier on field to keep the Noctis alive while salvaging.
Use EC drones from the carriers to jam out any scramming triggers.
|
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
470
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 02:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Ships:
I have listed the ships you need above. Here are the specifics on how to use each one.
The First Carrier:
The first carrier's role is to keep the Loki, and itself, alive and to keep the Loki capped up.
In addition, it can be used to kill sleeper cruisers with its drones.
This carrier needs to be an Archon. Sorry, but if you're a carrier pilot in wormhole space and don't fly an Archon, go train it right now.
You should not need to triage the first carrier but if the sleepers primary it for longer than usual you will need to, so make sure it is triage capable and has stront.
The Archon needs to have 2 local reps, 2 remote reps and 2 cap transfers.
It needs 1 EANM, T2 CCC rigs and cap mods everywhere else. (Faction CPRs.)
Do NOT fit more tank than this or you will cap out and get everyone killed.
As first carrier, you will need to run 1 remote rep and 2 cap transfers on the Loki. Stagger your cap transfers to keep its cap up easier.
If the Loki takes heavy agro for a long time you will need to cycle the second rep on it too.
You should also keep 1 local rep running at all times, this can save you in case of a disconnect.
Anomaly Notes:
You will never need more than 1 rep on the Loki in a Wolf Rayet.
The Loki:
The role of the Loki is to web and paint sleeper battleships so that the dreads can hit them.
Generally the Loki will also be in squad command position so that it can tag the targets but this can also be done by the first carrier.
Orbit the carrier at 500m to help sig tank.
The Loki needs to have 3 faction webs, Fed Navy recommended, and 2 target painters.
It should be putting 2 webs and both painters on the primary target and 1 web on the secondary target.
While many people don't, you should fit guns on your Loki and use it to kill off sleeper frigs. 5 dual 180s fit with 3% PG implant and do the job just fine.
Anomaly Notes:
You will need to fit 2 T2 targeting range rigs in a Magnetar to be able to lock out far enough.
The First Dread:
This should be your highest skilled pilot. The speed at which this dread can kill the sleeper battleships will determine the safety and efficiency of your site running.
If possible, make the first dread a Moros. In PVE, it actually does only slightly more DPS at the same range as a Revelation due to using T1 ammo, which should be uranium (aim for ~35km optimal), but it has much better tracking which means it applies DPS better than a Rev.
Rev should always use faction ammo since it lasts for ages and is dirt cheap.
The basic fitting rule for PVE dreads are:
T2 siege
meta guns (optional but highly recommended)
3 damage mods
1 meta local rep
2 faction, or better, EANMs
1 sensor booster
T2 capacitor rigs (CCCs and mem cells both work)
Tracking mods everywhere else, pimp to taste
Unlike the Archon, the dreads cannot tank the sleepers indefinitely and as such, you will likely need to refit mods off the carrier if you are taking heavy agro, which you generally will.
To this end, all dreads must have spare tank (DC, EANMs and active hardeners) and cap mods in their cargo. Even things like reinforced bulk heads are good to have if you really get into trouble.
Refitting on the fly and knowing when to refit is something that you will need to gain experience with to get the hang of.
Until you do, refit to more tank early. Drop a TE for a DC as soon as you start taking agro and drop another TE/damage mod for a 3rd EANM if they stay on you.
At the ~40% cap mark, start fitting cap rechargers and CPRs to stay above 33%.
If your dread is in trouble, don't be ashamed to drop siege and tell the Archon to triage to rep and cap you up.
Once you gain enough experience running first dread, you will be able to start swapping out mods later, or even not at all.
As a note on the rigs you choose, CCCs will help you recover cap faster but mem cells give you a much bigger buffer, meaning you don't run low for longer.
It's really up to personal preference (I use mem cells) and ultimately, most people run CCCs because theyGÇÖre half the price.
Anomaly Notes:
Being in a Wolf Rayet is roughly the equivalent of having an extra A-Type EANM fit. As such, you will rarely need to refit, if ever.
In a Magnetar, you really want the first dread to be a Moros since the tracking on the Revelation really suffers (it does still work fine if you don't have any alternative though).
The Second Dread:
Your second dread works much the same as the first dread except there is a lot less pressure on it.
The sleepers will rarely primary it heavily and with 2 dreads on field the battleships die much faster.
As such, this pilot can be less skilled. If you do not have 2 skilled dread pilots available, you can just warp the second dread in and out to trigger the wave.
Same piloting principles apply for this dread as the first.
The Second Carrier:
This carrier is only really there to trigger the second carrier escalation wave. It should just warp in and straight out.
If you need to, use it to kill any remaining sleeper cruisers/frigs with drones.
Anomaly Notes:
You can fit smartbombs and kill frigs with the second carrier in a Red Giant if you donGÇÖt have guns on your Loki. Warning: Doing so agros your entire fleet. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
470
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 02:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Fleet Booster:
The booster doesn't really do anything other than sit at a POS with links running.
You should be running these T2 links, in order of importance:
Web range - Mandatory
Armour resists - Mandatory
Rep amount
Ewar strength
Rep cap use
Sig radius
Note that the rep amount and cap use links do not affect capital local reps so they only boost your remote reps on the Loki which isnGÇÖt strictly needed.
The booster should preferably be in a Loki but a Claymore, Legion, Damnation or even a humble Drake work fine too.
The boosting pilot should have a Skirmish mindlink plugged in.
A Skirmished mindlinked Loki booster bumps out Loki webs to 53.5km.
You need to be able to web out to at least 45km so work out you booster with that range in mind.
The Noctis:
Salvaging isn't exactly rocket science, I'll leave the salvager/tractor ratio arguments up to personal preference.
The Noctis pilot needs ORE Industrial skill to at least 3 to have sufficient tractor range and not need to slow boat for hours.
The Noctis should have 2 shield extenders and a damage control so that it can tank a frig or cruiser trigger without assistance. It should also have a warp core stab fit so that it can warp out of sites where the trigger scrams. It needs an 800mm plate and a carrier repping it to tank battleship triggers. (Or you can use a Falcon to jam them out.)
Anomaly Notes:
You will need to fit a sensor booster in a Magnetar if you have a warp core stab fit.
Final Thoughts:
Running sites with this fleet is by far the most efficient method of ISK making around.
You're looking at ~700-750mil per site and you can comfortably run 4 sites an hour, more with an experienced crew.
Ultimately, if you run sites in this manner you will quickly gain enough ISK to stop caring about it.
That said, this initial investment in such a PVE fleet is not small and is not available to all.
Refer to my Carrier + Battleship site running guide of a cheaper and lower SP/ISK method.
You also run a very real danger of losing the entire fleet if the wrong people happen to connect to your wormhole when you are committed in a site.
I would recommend taking care and know what to do if you do get attacked, be it stay and fight or log off.
As always, fly fun.
JM |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
470
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 02:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reserved, will post recommended fits at some point. |
Angsty Teenager
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 03:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
In my own experience, you can fit 4 slots of tank on an archon (2 rep, 1 enam, 1 dcu) and it will never cap out as long as you turn off your RR when you are getting primaried. My carrier pilot has **** skills as well, was running with carrier 3, no triage, and cap remote repair and cap transfer 3.
It did end up in half hull one time because I burnt out one of my enams (I was running 2 enams at the time and this is why i swapped to a DCU, so i would have more hull buffer in case it happened again), but it lived, lol, and never capped out. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
470
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 04:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well, lets just say that a certain set of people i know lost 3 webbing lokis and nearly 2 caps and needed to be bailed out by 8 guardians this week because the first carrier had more tank and capped out...
Obviously there are things you can change up and some that are up to preference/experience. |
Angsty Teenager
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 05:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
That seems a little odd to me. Looking at my fit in EFT right now (with 4 slots of tank), I have 706 GJ/s (with all V skills, probably like 650 with my skills), and if I'm only running both my cap reps I'm only using 213 GJ/s of that. That's a full 500 GJ/s of extra cap, and I mean, worst case scenario where you have maybe 16 sleepless guardians on field all neuting the carrier, they're not going to neut 500 GJ/s.
Seems to me like a carrier getting capped out would only happen if the carrier started to get neuted and never stopped running unessecary modules (i.e. he should stop giving both cap transfers to the loki, giving only 1 instead or none at all depending on how many of the sleepers are neuting the carrier). I could see it burning all the cap and then getting stuck at 0 being unable to recharge, but as long as the carrier is paying attention i see no reason why it should get capped out (and in my experience this has never been the case). |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 13:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pulsar is perfectly possible with this method - shield moros with the right fit works, chimera and loki - you definitely need a full set of siege links and skirmish links tho. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
484
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 23:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ok, yes, you CAN do it in a pulsar but it will be far less efficient.
the difference between 2 webs and 3 webs + 2 TPs is huge.
Honestly, even if you have no archon pilots and only a chimera pilot, youre better off putting an armour RR on the chimera and using it for first carrier in a non pulsar WH.
It gets the same tank as an archon so it will be fine, you just need to run a shield resist link too. |
Doc Hollidai
V0LTA
Verge of Collapse
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 21:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
-Archon with 2 EANMs and proper links can tank a site on 1 repper.
-Add 1 more dread to the mix, warp all three to the archon/loki once they have landed, PEWPEW. <- Not recommended until you're comfortable with how to run sites.
-Get your archon pilot to get proper implants. |
Imustbecomfused
The Elysian Horde
Elysian Empire
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 19:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nicely done. Great read. |
M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 19:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
F**king carebears. |
TomyLobo
Posthuman Society
Elysian Empire
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 20:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
M Thomas wrote:F**king carebears.
Some people be acting like they know it all. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
511
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
M Thomas wrote:F**king carebears.
yes, cos you get the isk for your T3s out of thin air.
spare me. |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Review and Evaluation
Greater Realms
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 09:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:M Thomas wrote:F**king carebears. yes, cos you get the isk for your T3s out of thin air. BITE me.
Corrected!
Great read..... I've sent it to a few of my corpies as they can fly most of the stuff you have listed. Sadly, this might mean the end of C5's for me though as I am not trained (currently) in any of those ships. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries
Ash Alliance
181
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 22:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Swap noctis for Rorquall fitted for salvage and you can salvage on the go
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Elli M0o
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 23:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
great read..
Do you run this solo or with corpies?? |
Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
131
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 23:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Elli M0o wrote:great read..
Do you run this solo or with corpies??
Yes, great read.
c5 / c6 sites are designed to be run by multiple people - but I would imagine that a talented multi-boxer could run them "solo".
Personally, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a DC under those conditions!
HROLT CEO
Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression - The only way to go! |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
521
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 20:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
i do run the site solo on occasion.
i do just 3 caps, leaving out the last carrier, so that the whole fleet could fit through one WH.
I mainly wanted to try it to see if i could pull it off. The isk is also quite nice of course.
when running solo, a DC is actually fine because everything just dissapears in one min since the fleet isnt agroed.
obviously it isnt risk free and far from ideal so make sure your net and PC can handle the 5-6 accounts. (I had to buy more RAM to do it safely :P .)
now that i have a decent isk buffer i just run them with corpies in our home system. |
Angsty Teenager
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 16:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
What do you think are the chances of getting totally owned and dying if somebody tunnels into my C5 at the exact moment I hit siege on my dread are?. Assuming that I can't extract myself from the site after the first siege cycle ends and I have to kill all/most of the sleepless guardians and then warp out.
I mean, they have only 10 minutes to figure out what's going on my WH, form up some sort of gang (more than just a cov ops, because if they land an arazu or proteus or something in my site alone, I'm just going to web it and start blapping it with the dread, and hope that even if I can't hit initially, the sleepers will web it and neut it for me as well), and then manage to land in my site before I warp off.
And, assuming that I do manage to get tackled in a site, is it even feasible to kill a gang by triaging the archon and just fighting them using the dread and loki to take down large targets and then try to go for cruise sized targets? I mean, i figure at least if they warp in a bhaalgorn, I'll be able to kill that, I suppose I'm asking more about the viability of killing T3's--would they be similar in difficulty to killing sleeper cruisers? (i.e. you just need to wait till the webs have slowed them down enough?). |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
35
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 16:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Not really gonna hit T3s or guardians with dread guns without 90% webs once they get under the guns - even a bhaal with 3 regular webs on it is fairly much immune if it can get inside ~1km - unless your refitting on the carrier for tracking, etc. as needed and even then you won't hit T3s that orbit close.
A well fit carrier + loki + dread can put up a pretty good fight if your prepared but you probably want to stash a tanked vigilant or something in the carrier if your planning to put up a fight if caught in site. |
M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 17:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:EDIT: Oh yea, what do you do when running a quarantine area? Do you just not shoot any of the initial spawn and just fit like 50 million warp core stabs to the dread and loki and hope they don't point the carrier at the end? Supposedly the site triggers are random, which is why I ask. In my experience, I've been able to kill all the stuff that points you without the site ever spawning a new wave, (which is around 10+ seperate sites, since I assume the trigger is the same in an individual site when doing capital escalation farming).
Fitting warp core stabs on dreads is highly recommended actually. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
524
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 06:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Im not going to go over PVP safety tips in this thread, you'll figure it out ;) |
Angsty Teenager
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 07:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well, my game plan is the same as this guy's game plan was:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14489196
Seems to have worked out pretty well, lol. But honestly, that's really embarrassing. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
526
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 10:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
i loled, hard :P
seriously tho, if you get jumped by anyone who knows what they are doing youre going to die and lose all your ships. |
Angsty Teenager
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 14:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Yea of course. But honestly with the amount of isk you can make, it doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't happen more than like once a week.
Not really a whole lot you can do if you get unlucky and somebody who knows what they're doing opens up a WH into your WH right after you start a site--pretty much impossible to extract yourself after you've committed to a site. But if somebody who is **** comes in, man it would feel good to annihilate a BS fleet with just a moros, loki, and archon. |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
262
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 22:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thanks alot Mr. Miton for this in depth insight! Now I got some new goals in Eve 
New inventory: Getting better since version 1.2, but what about back and forward buttons? |
Mohamad Transporte
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 12:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
am not a wh guy.. however, out of curiosity... what happens if the triage carrier, lets say, dc'ede ... ?  |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
543
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 19:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mohamad Transporte wrote:am not a wh guy.. however, out of curiosity... what happens if the triage carrier, lets say, dc'ede ... ?
it will likely die if it takes more than ~5min to reconnect. |
Matuk Grymwal
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 03:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Mohamad Transporte wrote:am not a wh guy.. however, out of curiosity... what happens if the triage carrier, lets say, dc'ede ... ? it will likely die if it takes more than ~5min to reconnect. A high skilled, properly fit archon won't need triage, and can perma run everything it needs. So it's actually pretty hard for the Archon itself to die. What does die is the loki, followed by the dreads who now can't track the sleepers due to a lack of webs. |
Master Zeus
Nexus Executor
Nexus Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 08:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Any possibility to get some advice on the "right fittings" for this type of venture? |
Angsty Teenager
69
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 14:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Blap fitted Moros(es), super tanked loki with 3 webs and 2 TP's, Archon with 2 cap transfers, 2 armor reps and a triage module (in case, you shouldn't use it normally obviously), 2 self reps, 1 or 2 resist mods, rest is faction cprs/cap rechargers.
Just eft it, not super difficult or unobvious. In my experience tracking>more dps on the moros though. |
Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din
Dark Therapy
128
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 15:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
loki should be armor fit (obviously) with decent buffer, 3 webs, 2 TP, and fit 220's (to swat the frigs). It should also stay fairly close to the archon (no more than 5km) so that way you don't draw things out of the range of the moros. The loki will also be primary much of the time, with the dread being the other primary. Don't really need to worry about the carrier too much.
Carrier its best to fit 2 local reps, 2 EANM's, rest cap. Rarely will you need to run both local reps - they are solely there for "oh ****", and this can work almost as well with a thanatos as with an archon (in case you were foolish like me and trained gallente carrier 5 during a bout of not much playing/were training for a nyx and can't be bothered to be smart and re-train for archon). Highs should be 2 reps, 1 cap transfer, 1 triage (even if you don't need it), with 1 free slot for cap transfer/armor rep/shield rep of your choice, though this really depends upon how many "hangers on" come in as well to get paid for doing not much work :P. But since they're corpies, they should also be friends, so its all good and you will want to keep them alive anyways.
Moros should be fitted with blasters (preferably meta), seige mod (preferably t2 - the damage bonus is nice, but the best part is locking 3 damn targets), 2 sebo's to lock targets sometime today, 3 tracking computers, 1 capital rep, 3 damage mods, 3 cap rigs (recharge or amount), and the last 3 lows should be either 2 EANM's 1 DCU or 3 TE - keep both in cargo hold, switch as needed. Also keep 5 cap recharges and 6 cap power relays in cargo to switch as needed. Note, you should always be within refit range of the carrier, so there should be no problem swapping mods, so carry them anyways, and learn to use them right. If you do it right, you can sometimes do sites without sleepers ever finishing off your untanked shields. Also, for the love of god, make sure that you stop your ship BEFORE sieging... if you seige you will still be moving 5 min later when you finally come out...
-Arazel |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
593
|
Posted - 2012.09.27 05:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
I have added recommended fits to the reserved post. |
Ryanis
EVE Log
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 11:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
Taking some warp core stabs to refit with the archon and flights of ECM drones couls help if you need an emergency warp. |
Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
90
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 18:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
AWESOME write up Jack.
This gives small corps like mine a clear goal we can head our characters on the PVE side of things.
WHs are a mix of PVE and PVP, the less time we need to spend making is, is more the time we can spend blowing it up. |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
123
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 19:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Semi-sticky this thread somehow? |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
261
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 04:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Does anyone ahve a link handy to the BS guide Jack mentions a few times in this thread? I've tried searching with no luck. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
810
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 18:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Does anyone ahve a link handy to the BS guide Jack mentions a few times in this thread? I've tried searching with no luck.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1808468#post1808468
Ive added it to the OP to cos ive been asked a few times.
EDIT: NFI why it's locked... feel free to ask questions here, or just mail me. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
437
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 18:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cause it's old. If posts don't get a reply within a certain time limit they auto lock these days. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
289
|
Posted - 2012.11.16 23:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cheers.
Nothing new there, but it can't hurt to look. Other people have other ideas and you might have been doing something obvious that we've missed. |
Terrorfrodo
GNADE Inc.
243
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 01:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
Do you warp all the ships to zero into the site? What about bumping? I imagine that if a dread hits the carrier, it will float around for minutes, not hitting anything, maybe even drift out of refitting range...
. |
Matuk Grymwal
Bite Me inc
6
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 03:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Do you warp all the ships to zero into the site? What about bumping? I imagine that if a dread hits the carrier, it will float around for minutes, not hitting anything, maybe even drift out of refitting range... Yes, although generally everything after the first carrier warps to the carrier at zero, not the site itself. The bumping generally only happens once the dreads leave siege when the site is finished (and bumps are fairly rare). |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
884
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 04:34:00 -
[44] - Quote
You can set your default warp to distance to 2k if youre worried.
Like Mat said tho, generally not an issue. |
Terrorfrodo
GNADE Inc.
243
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 09:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ok, thanks :)
. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
71
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 15:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Just have the carrier approach the dreads, that will automatically put it at 0km (so if it's inside bumping radius, it will move outwards).
One time my dread did get mega bumped though, like 20km away and I didn't notice until I needed to refit more tank and then freaked out when I wasn't in range. Good thing that sleepers stop shooting the dread if you stop dumping out the dps. |
Terrorfrodo
GNADE Inc.
246
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 17:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
You sure they do? Sounds like a good way to manage aggro when in trouble!
So far I'm running only C1-C4 sites, and never had a reason to stop shooting ;)
. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
71
|
Posted - 2012.12.01 21:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Well, I'm not sure since this only happened once. But that's pretty much what seemed to happen. I turned off the dreads guns to conserve cap, and after ~30 seconds or something, all the sleepers started shooting the carrier--presumably because it was getting RR aggro from repping my loki. |
Fred Ono
Deviance Inc
Nocturnal Legion
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 19:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
It's been a while since last post but I only just found your guide.
Very helpful, mucho thanks.
Any tips and guidelines on soloing the sites?
|
Omen Nihilo
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
169
|
Posted - 2013.02.24 19:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Don't bother. |
Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din
Dark Therapy
182
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 00:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Fred Ono wrote:It's been a while since last post but I only just found your guide.
Very helpful, mucho thanks.
Any tips and guidelines on soloing the sites?
If by solo, you mean you and your 5 alts - follow the steps listed in either post. If by solo you mean 1 pilot... well... you're funny |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
149
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 01:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sites can probably be done with 3 characters total. 1 carrier, 1 dread, 1 loki if you really pimp your ****. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1432
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 03:35:00 -
[53] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:Sites can probably be done with 3 characters total. 1 carrier, 1 dread, 1 loki if you really pimp your ****.
sure, but youre making less than half the isk. |
Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din
Dark Therapy
182
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 03:52:00 -
[54] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Angsty Teenager wrote:Sites can probably be done with 3 characters total. 1 carrier, 1 dread, 1 loki if you really pimp your ****. sure, but youre making less than half the isk.
Not if what you do is run the escalation, warp back to the POS, and have the carrier and dread pilots swap (into a new carrier/dread, because it remembers which carrier/dread was used before). So technically you can manage to get a full escalation with just 3 characters... its just... painful. Much better to do it with 4-5 characters.
-Arazel |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
149
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 05:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Angsty Teenager wrote:Sites can probably be done with 3 characters total. 1 carrier, 1 dread, 1 loki if you really pimp your ****. sure, but youre making less than half the isk.
Not if you finish it in half the time :P
Arazel Chainfire wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Angsty Teenager wrote:Sites can probably be done with 3 characters total. 1 carrier, 1 dread, 1 loki if you really pimp your ****. sure, but youre making less than half the isk. Not if what you do is run the escalation, warp back to the POS, and have the carrier and dread pilots swap (into a new carrier/dread, because it remembers which carrier/dread was used before). So technically you can manage to get a full escalation with just 3 characters... its just... painful. Much better to do it with 4-5 characters. -Arazel
You can't do this, in order to get the 3rd and 4th escalations you need to still have the first dread and first carrier on field. |
Fred Ono
Deviance Inc
Nocturnal Legion
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 06:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
I see, so minimum number of pilots to effectively run escalations is five ?
1 carrier
2 dreads
1 loki
1 noctis
is the extra carrier worth it for the extra BS spawns?
|
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1432
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 08:33:00 -
[57] - Quote
Fred Ono wrote:I see, so minimum number of pilots to effectively run escalations is five ?
1 carrier
2 dreads
1 loki
1 noctis
is the extra carrier worth it for the extra BS spawns?
did you actually read the guide?
What you will need:
1 Triage capable Archon.
2 Moros/Revelation dreadnaughts. (No, you can't bring your Phoenix.)
1 Carrier, any race.
1 Loki.
1 Armour and Skirmish capable fleet booster. (Information is also recommended.)
1 Noctis. |
Fred Ono
Deviance Inc
Nocturnal Legion
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 10:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:
did you actually read the guide?
Yes I did... hence why my list was exactly what you typed minus the link pilot and asking if the second carrier was worth it.
I was just asking for tips/advice on doing it solo, no need to be aggressive about it.
|
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1433
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 19:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
you need the link pilot |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
212
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 20:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
Fred Ono wrote:Jack Miton wrote:
did you actually read the guide?
Yes I did... hence why my list was exactly what you typed minus the link pilot and asking if the second carrier was worth it. I was just asking for tips/advice on doing it solo, no need to be aggressive about it.
Don't think he was being agressive as such - Jack has pretty much cut it back to the barebones so what he lists is basically the minimum to make it worthwhile and efficient - sure you may be able to come up with some variations on the theme with experience but thats another matter. |
Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
596
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 21:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Fred Ono wrote:Jack Miton wrote:
did you actually read the guide?
Yes I did... hence why my list was exactly what you typed minus the link pilot and asking if the second carrier was worth it. I was just asking for tips/advice on doing it solo, no need to be aggressive about it. Don't think he was being agressive as such - Jack has pretty much cut it back to the barebones so what he lists is basically the minimum to make it worthwhile and efficient - sure you may be able to come up with some variations on the theme with experience but thats another matter.
Agreed, Jack wasn't being aggressive.
Fred -- You asked a question and implied a question with your "minimum" group you listed --
1. Is the extra (spike) carrier worth it?
- Yes, it is.
- Is it a necessity, no. You just lose out on those 8 extra bs's.
2. Is the Loki (booster) needed? I say it this way because you left it off your original list, Fred.
- Jack pointed out else where that you could get away without one -- but only if your Archon pilot has mad skills (e.g. at 5 across the board) , and only if you don't have too many sleepers on grid with you at the same time.
- Personally, if you have access to a booster, use it. It will help in so many ways.
Hope that helps.
+1 to Jack for a well written guide.
HROLT CEO
Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression - The only way to go! |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1433
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 21:17:00 -
[62] - Quote
Infinite Force wrote:2. Is the Loki (booster) needed? I say it this way because you left it off your original list, Fred.
[list] Jack pointed out else where that you could get away without one -- but only if your Archon pilot has mad skills (e.g. at 5 across the board) , and only if you don't have too many sleepers on grid with you at the same time.
if youre running with BSs for DPS you don't need the booster if your triage pilot is sh*t hot.
if youre doing dread + loki + carrier you need the web range one at the very least since the loki is extremely likely to be webbed and won't be moving into web range anywhere near quickly enough. |
Harcus Mall
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 22:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
I would be interested to know what your pc set up is running 5 accounts at once. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
149
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 23:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Eh, I'm of the opinion that it's perfectly fine to do with 4 pilots.
1 Moros
1 Archon (doesn't need triage, I ran without triage for a while until my character trained it)
1 Loki who can also fly a noctis
1 Legion w/ all 3 legion links and the web distance skirmish link.
Makes you between 1.5-2bil per hour (at least when i was doing it, i dunno what nanoribbon prices are now, but it shouldn't change that much). It was taking me about 11 minutes per site, (from warp in to warp in on the next site, including salvage etc...).
Having two dreads is more efficient with respect to extracting isk from the wormhole, but I didn't have two dread characters at the time and my computer can't run 5 clients nicely. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1435
|
Posted - 2013.02.25 23:25:00 -
[65] - Quote
Harcus Mall wrote:I would be interested to know what your pc set up is running 5 accounts at once.
the only resource EVE uses heavily is RAM. i needed to up my RAM from 6gb to 12gb to do it stably but that's a very cheap upgrade.
my PC is 3+ years old, my settings are maxed. runs fine. |
TunaKross
Bite Me inc
Bitten.
23
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 00:24:00 -
[66] - Quote
I want to thank you Jack for making this guide.
This guide probably pushed some people over the edge to start doing cap esco's. And if we can catch just one of those people when they are doing sites it is all worth it |
Fred Ono
Deviance Inc
Nocturnal Legion
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 08:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Thanks for the answers and clearing up a few things.
You topic is pretty much the single most informative source on the subject.
Now a vid of someone soloing it would probably be asking too much huh? :)
|
Serendipity Lost
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
36
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 08:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
For the 'non archon' club - yeah imma livin in a pulsar.
We use 2 chimera and 2 dread and1 or 2 huggins.
1 chimera needs to be triage fitted.
2 huggins are better than one for webbing painting.
rev or moros - it truly doesn't matter. Any combination of the 2 types and you always finish the site before the second siege cycle is up. I tend to warp them in at the same time, but some guys stagger them. They are shield tanked in the pulsar, so the damage they toss out might make you armor guys kind of jealous.
What I've gotten away with: 3 guys. 1 guy dual boxes the dreads, 1 guy runs the huggin, 1 guy dual boxes the carriers. DPS is always easy so dualing the dreads is kinda busy, but not a big deal. We keep the logi guy logi only and the webby/painty guy just to that. Funny thing is, with this minimum staffing the reps get easy so we more or less warp the whole fleet in at once and it's not that big of a deal. We lag the huggin just a bit to allow the carrier to triage and get set up before the huggin is on grid.
We use huggins because our newer guys trained in that direction vice the loki direction. We have a few loki pilots that do the loki thing instead of the huggin thing, so I'm not saying you NEED a huggin - that's just how it evolved for us.
Drugs - I like them, but other guys don't bother. They are nice if you only have one webber and lose value as the fleet size (webbing and painting) increases. It's pretty easy math.
Site completion time. We finish them before the second siege cycle is up. I really don't see a need to get it all done in one siege cycle so we rate our efficiency based on how long we have to wait to come out of siege.
Jack's setups are good and proven over time. (no offense intended here Jack) I just worry that guys take them as mandatory. There are a lot of ways to burn through anoms. For smaller corps dual archons or dual moros may not be an option. Don't feel you have to train for a moros - the rev has to wait for its siege cycle to end just like the moros does.
I look at the real efficiency on the dreads by number of siegs cycles (cuz you can't do half a cycle). If you get it done in one cycle I'd say there are too many guys living in your wh. If it takes you 3 you have some room to get better.
Don't get hung up on the fits, the numbers or the split hairs when getting your fleet together. I don't even use faction ammo for sleepers. I'm too lazy (yeah I know - it's that bad) to resupply so I just use the t1 stuff. (I keep a set of faction crystals in a special box labelled "I'm gonna kick your *** Cipreh" in the back of the cargo bay).
Fit what you can fit and work to get 'good enough for sleeper work' then move on funner things!! |
Joan Greywind
Hammer Holding
Wrong Hole.
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 06:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
Just a question about never running in a cataclysmic variable wh. Couldn't you just add 1 or 2 more local reppers instead of the cap rechargers to negate the 50% penalty? You will have 100% cap capacity and recharge bonus so you should be good on cap. And don't forget since you have 100% increase in rr you should be able to complete the site with using only 1 rr module which free up more cap.
Btw thanks for the great guide. |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
73
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 23:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Not a bad base to start with.
Got your basics there. A good place to build on.
Although I do have to say that since they changed the way missile rigs work, they now work with Citadel torps, Phoenix dreads can 2 shot escalation sleepers and they don't even need to be webbed down fully.
Granted Phoenix won't be as fast as Moros or Rev's, but it can be hilarious amounts of fun to watch two Phoenix one-shot Sleepers off the field.
Asplosions always makes Bob happy. |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
73
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 23:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
We use huggins because our newer guys trained in that direction vice the loki direction. We have a few loki pilots that do the loki thing instead of the huggin thing, so I'm not saying you NEED a huggin - that's just how it evolved for us.
Quick question.
I'm guessing those are dual 1600 II plate Huginns?
|
Angsty Teenager
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
149
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 00:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
He's using chimeras, so it's a shield setup.
Can't see pheonixes actually being good still though, they can't even apply half of their theoretical dps to a fully webbed and TP'd sleepless guardian unless I'm missing something. |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
73
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 00:19:00 -
[73] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:He's using chimeras, so it's a shield setup.
Can't see pheonixes actually being good still though, they can't even apply half of their theoretical dps to a fully webbed and TP'd sleepless guardian unless I'm missing something.
That's the problem I have with theoretical DPS.
We've run them in sites, singly and in pairs and Sleepers melt. Not as fast as Moros or Revs mind you, but they do blow **** up really good. If you're gonna PvE may as well have fun with it once in a while. Right?
Nag's are under-rated as well. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1475
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 01:28:00 -
[74] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote: They are shield tanked in the pulsar, so the damage they toss out might make you armor guys kind of jealous.
Considering I live in a C6 Magnetar and run 3 damage mods on the first dread and 4 on the second, I kinda doubt it ;)
ADHOC guy, I really hope you're trolling about the Phoenixes and Nags... |
Celeste Starwind
Global Dynamics Production
Test Friends Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 23:48:00 -
[75] - Quote
There is one thing bothering me. Are you saying to refit sieged dred? Is it even possible?
And did anyone tried a rapier in place of loki? |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 23:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
Celeste Starwind wrote:There is one thing bothering me. Are you saying to refit sieged dred? Is it even possible?
And did anyone tried a rapier in place of loki?
Any ship can be refit including sieged/triaged if they are within refitting range of a carrier or orca - probably not a good idea to bring an orca in site tho :P
Rapiers can be used but they are quite thin on tank compared to a loki.
|
Angsty Teenager
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
149
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 00:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:For the 'non archon' club - yeah imma livin in a pulsar.
Should have asked this earlier, but w/e. I'm curious how you manage to keep your dreads alive and capped long enough with 28 sleepless guardians on you. Even in a pulsar, this seems pretty sketch. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 01:17:00 -
[78] - Quote
They won't be pulling all 4 waves at once - any more than about 2 escalation waves tops and they will be alphaing through the huginn.
What we used to do in a C5 pulsar is drop a rorqual in with the dreads (to keep the webbing ships alive) to get things started and bring the carriers in later. |
Angsty Teenager
Derpotle
149
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 04:42:00 -
[79] - Quote
He literally says they bring the whole fleet in at once (huginn after) though....
Quote:Funny thing is, with this minimum staffing the reps get easy so we more or less warp the whole fleet in at once and it's not that big of a deal.
I would tend to agree with what you said, that's why I ask. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:31:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ah missed that bit.
Individual sleeper groups don't tend to focus fire with other groups and if you drop the huginns in last and keep them the opposite side of the capitals to the sleepers they will hardly get shot at due to sleepers using preferred sig radius based targetting priorities. But if one does get webbed down and shot at by 2 or more groups theres a high chance it will pop. |
Angsty Teenager
Gauze.
149
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 20:02:00 -
[81] - Quote
I'm actually more interested in how the dreads survive. I mean, with a single repper they can only tank ~7000dps, which is two sleeper waves, and the dreads don't have cap to perma run the repper if you're max gank fitting them. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 20:21:00 -
[82] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:I'm actually more interested in how the dreads survive. I mean, with a single repper they can only tank ~7000dps, which is two sleeper waves, and the dreads don't have cap to perma run the repper if you're max gank fitting them.
Aslong as you have good webbing/tp support and/or use warp to zero method a dread setup roughly like this (with approprite implants)
Quote:[Moros, Pulsar Moros]
Damage Control II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Capital Neutron Saturation Injector I
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Script
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Guristas Antimatter Charge XL
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Guristas Antimatter Charge XL
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Guristas Antimatter Charge XL
Siege Module II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Does fine in a C5 pulsar. |
Angsty Teenager
Gauze.
149
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 20:24:00 -
[83] - Quote
Hmm, maybe I've been overestimating the amount of tracking actually required (I would have only allowed two slots for tank in the mids).
Still not entirely sold on that being able to survive even half dps and half neuts for 10 minutes. I guess I'll just take it at face value though. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 20:40:00 -
[84] - Quote
You would need 2 huginns to fully support that kind of fit, if you have 2-4 capitals in site its rare for any one of them to take full aggro from multiple waves indefinitely and aslong as your dreads are hitting well you will be killing guardians much quicker than they are killing you. Obviously tho that kind of setup doesn't leave much room for screw ups.
When we used to live in a pulsar we'd have a siege mindlinked booster and I'd have an alt boosting from a prot for the extra target painting bonus infowar links give. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
694
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 01:32:00 -
[85] - Quote
I have lost Huggins and Rapiers to single waves of cap escalations. It only happened twice, and it required a bunch of things to line up, but they do get alpha'd.
With the complete removal of passive shield compensations applying to offline invuls, I'd be VERY reluctant to fly a shield-fit huggin/rapier in a site. Especially since I've now done it with 2 Archons, 2 Revelations and a loki.
A 10 slot shield tank on a Rapier gets you only 50,000 (65k w/ links) eHP. It also leaves you with only one web and one paint. You get a similar tank on the Huggin.
Meanwhile the Loki we were using was pushing 300k WITHOUT the Wolf-Rayet effect of our hole, and without implants. Add implants and a c5 WR effect and your EHP jumps up to 500k and you still have 5 mids for webs/paints. Did I mention half the sig radius?
Doing it with a shield fleet is possible... but its just so much easier with an armour fleet. You can warp the whole fleet in at once, tank it all like a boss and still blap the whole thing in 20 minutes. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
220
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 01:52:00 -
[86] - Quote
Was thinking earlier I'd be a bit concerned about the changes to the compensation skills if we were still in a pulsar. If your prepared to run 2x huginn (2x web, 1x TP on each) you can get a little over 100K EHP out of them in a C5 pulsar w/ siege links and fairly good resists. |
Lenier Chenal
Anomalous Existence
Existential Anxiety
22
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 15:59:00 -
[87] - Quote
Great guide. |
Serendipity Lost
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
43
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 07:09:00 -
[88] - Quote
Didn't realize you guys were discussing the pulsar stuffs (heavy work load is keeping me busy). It's pretty easy to figure out sleeper aggro and manage it. If you're running quad escallations and don't know how to get all the sleepers to focus on one ship when you need to I will recommend playing around a bit and see what they like and what they don't care about. I would bet there is one module they just love to hate out there. You just have to find it. On a side note, if you just sit there in a sieged dread and omg... stop shooting them... they lose interest soon enough and you can coast out and get reps. Managing the aggro is a better way to go though as it feels like 15min pass waiting for the first 3 locks after pushing the siege button.
As far as how the dreads are fit... If you look hard enough you can prolly figure out a moros fit that I've used. You don't need to go total dead space fit, but it's easy enough to afford after a few sites. Keep in mind you can refit any time you get nervous, but we only experience that occaisionally when we mis-manage the aggro.
We don't use rorqs, but as mentioned they are free capital reps as far as escallation waves are concerned, so if you are just starting out or just want to do some experiments - they are a nice support ship to have on the field. We lose the occaisional huggin, but it really only gets sketchy if we are light on gang boosts.
As far as implants - it's not that difficult to figure out which ones I keep in my head. I just run a general all around set of 3% hardwires. Nothing special. Lost |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
221
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 14:47:00 -
[89] - Quote
Have to admit I'd forgotten that stopping shooting in a dread often results in the sleepers losing interest in you - as the times I've ran a dread I've been able to brawl right through the site. They are evil tho and the one time you really really need them to stop shooting you they will just keep shooting you regardless :S
Had a look at the moros fit but you were obviously refitting that during the fight for various different purposes so hard to get an idea of the original fit. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1500
|
Posted - 2013.03.17 23:26:00 -
[90] - Quote
you're over thinking this.
a dread can easily tank the sleepers for long enough even if they shoot it for the entire time.
if the dread does take full agro I do recommend refitting it for resists a bit but you can scrape by without doing so if you're on the ball, especially with slaves. |
Serendipity Lost
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
43
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 02:34:00 -
[91] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:you're over thinking this..
This for sure.
The shield buffer is more than enough if you run the sites per the game plan. If you're running low on shields you've done something wrong. As far as the moros fit - I wasn't refitting. I keep the armor repper fitted on the shield buffered moros. If I could fit an armor repper in cargo and throw another mag stab in the lows I would - I can't, so I have a shield moros w/ an armor repper fitted just in case I refit to armor. I got some crap for trying to dual tank a moros, and I guess maybe I am in a way, but it's more of a cargo space issue than a desire to shield/armor tank it.
As far as the loss - it's a long story w/ a lot of bad on my part. I'll just say my judgement isn't the best when I get home from a midnight shift. The guys that got us were playing heads up and I was feeding them caps in series. No excuses though, they were great and I'm sure I'm way up on their favorites list as well.
The first time I ran sites in HID and they did a quad escallation by warping everything in at once I was thinking it was crazy, but it's not. As far as that goes - c5 and even more in c6 the wh bonus plays big. Shield buffer caps in our wh don't really sweat sleeper aggro (shield AND cap bonus). Mag sites - you need to pay attention, but regular anoms are routine once you get the routine down (Yogi Berra??) I recommend you play around with your wh bonus and see what you can get away with. Play around with different modules and warp in 'routines' and see how the sleepers react to what you do. You can't train them to do what you want, but it's not that hard to figure out what they do under various conditions.
Try throwing just one faction BS into the escallationl. Sleepers love them! Put you carrier reps on the bhaal and go make a sandwitch! Try stuff until you get things where you want them. Keep messing around until you get what you want. Maybe try an abso with a gang link and a jammer. Let it sit idle then light up the gang link and start trying to jam the sleeps. It's a game - play around a bit.
Lost |
Jireel
I ain't got me ground legs yet
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 21:35:00 -
[92] - Quote
At least i know what I'll be doing 2 years from now - thanks for the post mate, i was wondering how you did those escalations, now i got a ton of info to work with |
ayoud Igunen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.06 15:03:00 -
[93] - Quote
hi mates, i would like to know if is it possible run sites wtih 1 carrier(triage t2) 1 revelation 1 webber and 1 bs (for kill cruisers and frigates)
|
Hansy Babes
I Swear She Was 18
Rainbow Dash Friends
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:18:00 -
[94] - Quote
Hi,
The method you mentioned included warping in only 1 dread right after the carrier giving you the 2 escalations and forcing you to wait for the intial dread to clear out some of the npcs on field before warping in the the rest of your dreads and spawning the 3rd escalation. We currently run our c5 using this method, but I was curious about warping in multiple dreads with the triage archon, say 5 dreads, and 2-3 webbing lokies, spawning 3 waves of sleepless guardians.
Obviously if you were able to do this you'd make much more money as there are more dreads in seige more of the time. How many dreads do you recon you would need to mitigate the dps quickly enough to warrent spawning 3 waves at once? As far as i can see the lokies have no problem tanking, and the archon is ok, it becomes tricky when a dread is focused with neuts + dps, but speaking from experiance it seems like it should be possible to do the 3 cap escalations at once given enough dreads. Any information on this would be a great help, alternatively we can go welp some dreads to trial and error :). |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
239
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:51:00 -
[95] - Quote
Aslong as your carrier is well fit (and how easy it is depends a bit on system effects) then it comes down to luck of the draw how much any one dread gets primaried. In theory it should be rare that all 3 waves went for one dread and if they did it can probably stop shooting which usually results in them switching targets.
Keeping well fit lokis alive should be trivial, keeping them capped up might be a little harder but probably nothing that can't be managed. |
Hansy Babes
I Swear She Was 18
Rainbow Dash Friends
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:19:00 -
[96] - Quote
Dunno seems to me that warp **** in and pray that 1 doesnt get primaried long enough leave a bit to much to chance. I'm sure theres a critical number of dreads where the sleepers pop fast enough so that even if 1 dread is primared is shouldnt matter, I was wondering if anyone had experiance with that? |
Angsty Teenager
Derpotle
149
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:39:00 -
[97] - Quote
You can warp in 1 loki, 1 archon, and 2 moroses into a C5 site all at one time and not die. Just be prepared to potentially either have to triage your archon, or refit one of your dreads for more tank. Biggest issue isn't really the sleeper dps, but rather neuts, so just have cap boosters with you if **** goes really bad so you can desiege, refit to 5 heavy cap boosters and just perma boost and rep as you come out siege and eventually let the archon rep/cap you. You have to be on the ball with killing sleepers as you definitely are on a timeline in terms of how much cap your dreads have, but it is possible to finish the site in 5 minutes this way.
Source: I've done this.
Edit: I wouldn't do this in an oruze or quarantine area since the chance of your dreads getting neuted is significantly higher since the sleepers will be in range quickly. For the core garrisons and strongholds, if you burn your loki(s) out a little bit closer to the sleepless guardians at the start, in my experience the loki ends up keeping the neuts on it the whole time (which is good).
Edit 2: If it's not obvious, I also was using legion links. |
Hansy Babes
I Swear She Was 18
Rainbow Dash Friends
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:10:00 -
[98] - Quote
Thanks, thats what i was looking for. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1642
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 04:22:00 -
[99] - Quote
Hansy Babes wrote:Thanks, thats what i was looking for.
It really isnt.
Warping in 3 caps and a Loki all at once is FAR riskier than just 2 caps and the loki. Yes, it is possible but it isnt worth doing.
If you follow my instructions, the dread being primaried is not an issue. In fact, it will almost always be primary for most of the site. |
Angsty Teenager
Derpotle
150
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 18:15:00 -
[100] - Quote
Riskier, sure, doesn't mean it's a death sentence though unless you're bad.
If he really cares about risk he can just go do it in a wolf-rayet or a magnetar. That should remove a lot of it. |
Hansy Babes
I Swear She Was 18
Rainbow Dash Friends
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 11:21:00 -
[101] - Quote
Old thread, But just wanted to say we've been spawning 3 cap escalations at once at all sites except the more heavilly neuting ones. We've been doing this with dreads that dont have tech 2 seige aren't pimp fit and don't have implants in the pods, the same goes for the archon (it is t2 triage but doesn't have implants etc.).
This has been working without a problem, on top of this our wormhole is unbonused. In a wolf-rayet or a magnetar it seems as if 3 cap escalations at once would be extermely easy to do. Maybe we've "gotten lucky" for a month straight but it seems to be working fine, ontop of this you can apply your full dps from the beginning of the site making the painfull process of ratting be over that much quicker.
The carrier does come under considerable pressure if it is neuted and primaried by all of the Guardians on field, but even if this happens the dps of the dreads is enough to bring down the Guardians fast enough that there is little risk of the archon actually dieing. Have to stress that this is just our experiance and maybe we've been lucky the whole time but taking into account that we are not running the sites in pimp fits and not in a bonused wh I really doubt that starting with 3 escalations at once isn't a reasonable approach for people with the isk, sp and the correct wh. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
490
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 11:28:00 -
[102] - Quote
How many dreads do you use? Obviously it will get a lot easier if you bring more than two.
. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
2013
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 12:25:00 -
[103] - Quote
Sure, lots of groups run 3 waves at once but there are a few issues with it.
For one, i highly doubt youre only using 2 dreads.
Secondly, it isnt any faster.
Its certainly not something id recommend doing with only 1-2 people too ;) |
Angsty Teenager
Derpotle
167
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 16:38:00 -
[104] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Sure, lots of groups run 3 waves at once but there are a few issues with it.
For one, i highly doubt youre only using 2 dreads.
Secondly, it isnt any faster.
Its certainly not something id recommend doing with only 1-2 people too ;)
This isn't true. Like I said before, I run triple escalations with 2 moros, 1 archon, and 2 lokis and finish (at least core stronghold and garrisons, oruze and quarantine are somewhat iffy) sites in one siege cycle. It is close, but very doable, you just can't mess up and that comes with practice.
You don't even need to triage the archon. Even post odyssey with the resistance nerf. Thing is, the archon can't tank **** outside of triage, but when you have two moroses with T2 siege and 17000dps each, the sleepers will basically swap next target check, and stay on the moroses the whole time from that point onwards. You can get ~8000dps tank out of a moros fairly easily, and that is more than enough along with the nice natural armor buffer to keep the dread alive even in blap fit for 5 minutes, or at least enough time to kill enough of the sleepless guardians to make it a non-issue.
It's actually really easy and my only complaint is that I have to use two lokis because one cannot provide enough webs to adequately slow down the secondary and also TP the primary and secondary. The sleepers die so fast under two moroses that you basically don't enough enough time to swap webs and TP's to the secondary and have them start having any sort of effect before the sleeper will die. So you have to spread the same number of webs/TPs on your secondary as on the primary. The sleeper dies fast still, but not fast enough to do the site in 5 minutes.
But yea you're technically right on the first count about 2 dreads, since a rev/nag (or pheonix) is not suitable for this. (Hilariously, even 3 revs will still be worse than 2 moros, lololololol)
It gets mega boring after a while though, since it requires autist level attention if you want to 6 box it, but it isn't terribly interesting.
Edit: Maybe I'll even see if I can get some fraps of it, but my computer is like 5 years old and fraps takes a huge dump on it, especially when I'm running 6 eve clients. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
2014
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 21:56:00 -
[105] - Quote
ok, so youre running 3 waves in 5 min rather than the full 4 in 10.
like i said, 4 would still take you 10. *shrug* |
Angsty Teenager
Derpotle
167
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 01:22:00 -
[106] - Quote
What is your point? It is still more efficient to run 3 waves in 5 minutes than 4 in 10. Plus if you're farming in a C5, you'll have to move holes if you want to keep farming since you'll run out of sites very quickly. You can move 2 dread and an archon + T3's and an orca, but you cannot move 2 carriers and 2 dreads.
If you are running all four waves, may as well just use enough dreads to do it in 5 minutes anyway, so v0v since you're not going to move wormholes. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
2015
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 01:43:00 -
[107] - Quote
We're basically discussing jasmin rice vs basmalti. The argument is completely irrelevant to this thread.
There's about a million variations to the posted method you can do, none of them make this one not work and none of them are simpler. |
Hansy Babes
I Swear She Was 18
Rainbow Dash Friends
3
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 02:02:00 -
[108] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:How many dreads do you use? Obviously it will get a lot easier if you bring more than two.
The least we've done this with is 3 dreads, a moros and 2 nags. None of the dreads we used have T2 seige, all of them have only 4/4 for dread and xl blasters/auto cannons, none of the dreads use implants, none of the dreads are pimp fit by any stretch of the imagination and it's in a non-bonused worm hole. 2 pimp fit moros with proper skills, implants do far more dps than we put out with our 3 dreads, put those dreads in a magnetar and they probably get more than 3 times the dps we do. (naturally we use legion + loki links).
As Angsty has said if you can run 3 waves in five minutes it is more efficient than running 4 waves in 10. Point being it is viable as well as more efficient to run the sites by spawning 3 waves at once. You wouldn't get as much as if you were to run all the waves in all the sites but you do get more isk for the time you spending doing it and considering how dull I find pve grinding efficiency > total possible isk.
Dunno if you can run 4 waves in 1 cycle with 3 moros. Warping in the final escalation carrier half way through the site makes tanking no harder than 3 waves at anyone time. However there might be trouble with the speed at which lokies web or dreads lock. Would have to see it done or try it out before really suggesting that it works but regardless 3 waves 5 minutes is certainly viable and more efficient.
I suppose how you want to run it depends on if you want efficiency or total amount of isk made. |
Joan Greywind
I Moan ALOT
We Moan ALOT
13
|
Posted - 2013.06.19 03:38:00 -
[109] - Quote
Hansy Babes wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:How many dreads do you use? Obviously it will get a lot easier if you bring more than two. The least we've done this with is 3 dreads, a moros and 2 nags. None of the dreads we used have T2 seige, all of them have only 4/4 for dread and xl blasters/auto cannons, none of the dreads use implants, none of the dreads are pimp fit by any stretch of the imagination and it's in a non-bonused worm hole. 2 pimp fit moros with proper skills, implants do far more dps than we put out with our 3 dreads, put those dreads in a magnetar and they probably get more than 3 times the dps we do. (naturally we use legion + loki links). As Angsty has said if you can run 3 waves in five minutes it is more efficient than running 4 waves in 10. Point being it is viable as well as more efficient to run the sites by spawning 3 waves at once. You wouldn't get as much as if you were to run all the waves in all the sites but you do get more isk for the time you spending doing it and considering how dull I find pve grinding efficiency > total possible isk. Dunno if you can run 4 waves in 1 cycle with 3 moros. Warping in the final escalation carrier half way through the site makes tanking no harder than 3 waves at anyone time. However there might be trouble with the speed at which lokies web or dreads lock. Would have to see it done or try it out before really suggesting that it works but regardless 3 waves 5 minutes is certainly viable and more efficient. I suppose how you want to run it depends on if you want efficiency or total amount of isk made.
In wormholes the biggest constraint by far is not time, but actually the number of sites spawned. So doing 3 waves instead of 4 is wasted easy iskies. It is still 200m in 5 minutes, which are going down the drain. It is boring I agree but at least for people that live in wormholes it is not efficient at all. And 1 more thing doing with 3 waves at once decreases the margin of error a lot, if you get a single dc or you get jumped by anyone the chances of you dying are much higher.
|
Bloody Wench
570
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 01:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
Can you use the same pilot to bring in the other caps, or do they all have to be on grid at the same time to trigger? |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
2037
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 05:53:00 -
[111] - Quote
you need both on field to trigger second wave. |
Angsty Teenager
Derpotle
167
|
Posted - 2013.06.22 22:33:00 -
[112] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote:
In wormholes the biggest constraint by far is not time, but actually the number of sites spawned. So doing 3 waves instead of 4 is wasted easy iskies. It is still 200m in 5 minutes, which are going down the drain. It is boring I agree but at least for people that live in wormholes it is not efficient at all. And 1 more thing doing with 3 waves at once decreases the margin of error a lot, if you get a single dc or you get jumped by anyone the chances of you dying are much higher.
I agree that if you are living in a wormhole semi-permanently, then not doing quad escalations is not using your wormhole to the fullest. If you aren't though, and are free to move wormholes (as you can do with a triple-escalation setup), then it is far more efficient to simply do only 3 escalations total, and just move wormholes when you run out of sites.
With regard to the margin of error, I really don't think it's any different than running 1,2, or 4 escalations. Since I only use one carrier, if my carrier dc's and stops repping my lokis, yea, I would probably die, unless the lokis aren't being shot (which is very possible). If anything else DC's, I'll be fine. Even if one of my dreads DC'd the moment I landed in the site, it is still very possible to finish a triple escalation with just one dread. It would be more dfificult and depending on what happened with regard to neuts and sleeper dps, i might have to drop the dread out of siege to cap it back up, but I think it's very unlikely it would die.
Also, if you run sites in 5 minutes, it's pretty hard to get caught tbh. Somebody would have to scan a WH into your system and have it appear the moment you landed in a site to stand a decent chance of killing you. Most people aren't chain rolling with a fleet on standby to kill people running sites, and they would have to form a fleet and then get in your wormhole. Likely it would take around ~5 minutes alone to do that, at which point you'll be done and have warped off.
If somebody is in your wormhole ahead of time though  , it's a different story and you're going to die no matter what and the best thing you can do is be ready to try to fit warp core stabs to warp off, or just brawl them outrageous depending on their fleet size. Personally, I've never had any wormholes open while I was doing sites, probably because I run them in the late US/AU timezone which is pretty much the most dead time period in WH's, but there were many times where I found myself wishing that somebody would come in and try to gank me, just because I was so bored and wanted to fight. Setups used to run sleeper sites are pretty viable to fighting, especially since the enemy is limited in what they can bring through the wormhole. If they want to bring more than one capital, they'll have to commit to staying in the WH and finding a way back out, which many people won't want to do.
If they only have one capital, you stand a pretty decent chance of fighting them off with two dreads. It also depends on how many sleepers are in the site though, you are right about that aspect. If you just started a site and you get jumped, you're in bad shape since the sleepers will stay on you for the most part. |
emf
Knights Of the Black Sun
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 12:00:00 -
[113] - Quote
I guess I'll share what I did solo in 2009 when wormholes first came out. Warp alt in pod in at 100, warp dread in at 100 from pod to trigger first escalation. Warp dread out. Move pod to right in the middle of escalation battleships. Warp dread in at 0, enter siege and pop all the sleepers before they reach orbit range (you don't have long but you do full damage with no tracking issues). Repeat with 2nd and 3rd dreadnought. No need to screw around with support ships. Reinvest ludicrous profits on expensive sensor boosters and damage mods. The first wave it's difficult (but doable) to kill everything before they reach orbit, after that it's trivial since you have multiple dreads in siege mode. |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End
League of Infamy
202
|
Posted - 2013.06.24 21:32:00 -
[114] - Quote
emf wrote:I guess I'll share what I did solo in 2009 when wormholes first came out. Warp alt in pod in at 100, warp dread in at 100 from pod to trigger first escalation. Warp dread out. Move pod to right in the middle of escalation battleships. Warp dread in at 0, enter siege and pop all the sleepers before they reach orbit range (you don't have long but you do full damage with no tracking issues). Repeat with 2nd and 3rd dreadnought. No need to screw around with support ships. Reinvest ludicrous profits on expensive sensor boosters and damage mods. The first wave it's difficult (but doable) to kill everything before they reach orbit, after that it's trivial since you have multiple dreads in siege mode.
Also doable with a Zephyr :)
Svo.
CEO of Heaven's End; Seller of Wormholes. |
Yokomaki
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 17:13:00 -
[115] - Quote
Thanks for this guide, it's helping our corp come up with a long term training plan. What is the raw incoming dps from an 8 BS escalation wave? |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
873
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 17:20:00 -
[116] - Quote
Yokomaki wrote:Thanks for this guide, it's helping our corp come up with a long term training plan. What is the raw incoming dps from an 8 BS escalation wave?
Low enough to be easily tanked on a single repper by any capital ship.
Is it just me, or is the Revelation looking like it might actually be better for escalations than the Moros? (assuming C5 Wolf-Rayet) Looks like the Rev gets more tank, more damage (at mid-30kms) and only slightly less tracking. Am I crazy? |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
279
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:06:00 -
[117] - Quote
Yokomaki wrote:Thanks for this guide, it's helping our corp come up with a long term training plan. What is the raw incoming dps from an 8 BS escalation wave?
Sustained damage from 8 guardians on a capital is 5k dps as close as makes no difference, you'd want a little more repping power than that tho to keep things comfortable. The neuting is potentially more of an issue than the dps on a well fit capital.
I've rarely had any issues repping full aggro from 8+ guardians on one repper tho. |
Yokomaki
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 19:58:00 -
[118] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Yokomaki wrote:Thanks for this guide, it's helping our corp come up with a long term training plan. What is the raw incoming dps from an 8 BS escalation wave? Sustained damage from 8 guardians on a capital is 5k dps as close as makes no difference, you'd want a little more repping power than that tho to keep things comfortable. The neuting is potentially more of an issue than the dps on a well fit capital. I've rarely had any issues repping full aggro from 8+ guardians on one repper tho.
Thanks for the help. I've been plugging in 2 heavy neuts per Guardian in EFT to see what my cap would look like. I think that is a bit overkill though? |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
280
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 20:03:00 -
[119] - Quote
IIRC they neut -36cap/s per guardian which is slightly less than 2x t1 heavy neuts. Usually aslong as your killing them at a fair rate the neuting isn't a major issue but it can be if theres any hold up i.e. someone going afk at the wrong time. |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2100
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 23:30:00 -
[120] - Quote
numbers I use for the neuts is that a wave is roughly equiv to a bhaal with amarr BS 4. *shrug*
|
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
906
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 04:08:00 -
[121] - Quote
Kill things faster and neuts become a non-issue. If you have 3 Dreads, warp the first one in with the carrier and loki, then warp the other 2 in after a few seconds and then just melt things. It's fast and you don't really need to worry about tank or cap on any dread that isn't the first one. Have a refit for cap and a refit for tank and you're golden.
First Dread should probably be a Revelation, or your best skilled pilot because they tank better. |
Ravage Prime
Die rot-weiss-roten Piloten
Cerberus Unleashed
5
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 08:27:00 -
[122] - Quote
Nice Guide |
Ennoia Cain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 11:44:00 -
[123] - Quote
AWESOME guide.....has the latest patch changed anything?, and how much doe it on average give in an hour? |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
173
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 16:56:00 -
[124] - Quote
Ennoia Cain wrote:AWESOME guide.....has the latest patch changed anything?, and how much doe it on average give in an hour?
Nothing has changed significantly. Depending on what sort of link ship you were using (i.e. loki w/ skirm + armor or legion with armor + skirm), you'll see an increase in tank and/or web range respectively.
Assuming you're doing a double escalation in 10 minutes, including 2 minutes of travel time between sites, you're making ~300mil per site, so 1.5bil per hour.
If you're doing a triple escalation in 10 minutes, including 2 minute sof travel time between sites, you're making ~500mil per site, so 2.5bil per hour.
If you're doing double escalations in 5 minutes, including 2 minutes of travel time, at 300mil per site, you're making about 2.65bil per hour. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
304
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 17:18:00 -
[125] - Quote
Sleeper guardian dps was increased from 617 to 694 each sometime between the release of odyssey and ~13th of August by the looks of it. |
Ennoia Cain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 18:13:00 -
[126] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:Ennoia Cain wrote:AWESOME guide.....has the latest patch changed anything?, and how much doe it on average give in an hour? Nothing has changed significantly. Depending on what sort of link ship you were using (i.e. loki w/ skirm + armor or legion with armor + skirm), you'll see an increase in tank and/or web range respectively. Assuming you're doing a double escalation in 10 minutes, including 2 minutes of travel time between sites, you're making ~300mil per site, so 1.5bil per hour. If you're doing a triple escalation in 10 minutes, including 2 minute sof travel time between sites, you're making ~500mil per site, so 2.5bil per hour. If you're doing double escalations in 5 minutes, including 2 minutes of travel time, at 300mil per site, you're making about 2.65bil per hour.
Ah, allright, insane amount indd, im just hearing a friend of mind saying that it is very random when the sites spawn and so on?, if you are for exmaple three doing the capital escalations could you not farm the sties like you farm incursions?
Thanks for the info btw.
|
Admiral Douros
aWc Heavy Industries
GoonSwarm
19
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 00:25:00 -
[127] - Quote
Ennoia Cain wrote:If you are for exmaple three doing the capital escalations could you not farm the sties like you farm incursions?
No, you can only run each site once per day, and after you initiate warp to a site it starts a despawn timer and will despawn after 3 downtimes. |
Ennoia Cain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 07:29:00 -
[128] - Quote
Admiral Douros wrote:Ennoia Cain wrote:If you are for exmaple three doing the capital escalations could you not farm the sties like you farm incursions?
No, you can only run each site once per day, and after you initiate warp to a site it starts a despawn timer and will despawn after 3 downtimes.
So then the profit will not be billions every day then.....? |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
174
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 16:20:00 -
[129] - Quote
Dependspn how many sites you have In your wormhole to run. If you have 20 sites, even if you only double escalate them, that us about 6bil per day. Would be a around 14bil if you quad escalate |
Ennoia Cain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 16:57:00 -
[130] - Quote
That is indeed very nice good sir |
Ennoia Cain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 18:49:00 -
[131] - Quote
is there any average on how many sites or is it totally random? |
Sundiel
Cynical Criterion
Novus Dominatum
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 09:36:00 -
[132] - Quote
so can the dread with the loki webs clear the small stuff on the field? or do you need anything special? |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
Black Legion.
179
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 17:19:00 -
[133] - Quote
Ennoia Cain wrote:is there any average on how many sites or is it totally random?
It is random, but it is still possible to regularly find wormholes with ~10 sites (the minimum I consider to be worthwhile, though it really depends on how much time you have to invest).
Sites do not respawn quickly in C5's, generally to the tune of 0-1 sites per day, so it doesn't make much sense to stay in the same wormhole longer than the 4 days it will take you to despawn the sites you moved into the WH with. Moving nomadically from wormhole to wormhole is extremely efficient, but apparently most people don't have the will to do this.
Sundiel wrote:so can the dread with the loki webs clear the small stuff on the field? or do you need anything special?
The dread can hit cruisers if they are webbed and TP'd by the loki (you'll have to wait for them to slow down though). In general you just should be using the carrier and loki (put guns on it) to clear the frigs and cruisers that are not triggers while the dread kills the battleships. |
Sundiel
Cynical Criterion
Novus Dominatum
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 08:29:00 -
[134] - Quote
Sundiel wrote:so can the dread with the loki webs clear the small stuff on the field? or do you need anything special?
The dread can hit cruisers if they are webbed and TP'd by the loki (you'll have to wait for them to slow down though). In general you just should be using the carrier and loki (put guns on it) to clear the frigs and cruisers that are not triggers while the dread kills the battleships.[/quote]
Thanks, we currently running the c6 sites with some BSs mixed in to deal with the small stuff.
I am the loki pilot at the moment. :) |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 08:59:00 -
[135] - Quote
I'm curious how to do sites with ashimmus and vigilants? We're trying to do it but we do it badly was wondering if theres any tricks I don't know about...
Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Jon Matick
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
26
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 21:46:00 -
[136] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:I'm curious how to do sites with ashimmus and vigilants? We're trying to do it but we do it badly was wondering if theres any tricks I don't know about...
short web range is short, crappy tank is crappy. *shrug*
My Blog:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
HerrBert
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 01:22:00 -
[137] - Quote
meh sounds reasonable... not sure if it works or if it is a big troll...
My mind does not reflect my corp ... it just shows you what they care about...
Super serious Wormhole Guy
http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism |
TXG SYNC
Outer Ring Sleeper Collective
Illusion of Solitude
3
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 00:52:00 -
[138] - Quote
The approach works fine and is not a troll but you'll end up needing some tweaks to match the skills, fits, and dread/carrier choices of your team. In general, more people == worse payout, but faster site-clearing and better safety.
Get your pilots together on Sisi and try it out a few times. It helps to pick the faction stuff up before the mirror to Sisi so you get an adequate test, but it's much better to lose a capital on Singularity for 100 isk than multi-billions on the live server... |
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
24
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 22:48:00 -
[139] - Quote
I just wanted to thank Angsty Teenager for keeping alive of the most awesome threads around.
I definately plan to give it a try !
----á-á Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005-á ---
|
Revan Xadi
SCWBA
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 16:36:00 -
[140] - Quote
My corp does all 4 escalations in one siege cycle. We warp in the carrier and loki, followed by 4-6 dreads, followed by a second carrier later. It's extremely efficient if you have the extra capital pilots, but it's only practical if you live in the wh where you are running ssites. As opposed to being nomadic. Decent isk/hour/person also relies on having people that can effectively multi-box dreads.
We normaly run 4-6 sites a night, and it takes us less than an hour, from warping in the forst carrier, too having the salvager from the last site back in the POS. Its also worth noting, that there are very few WH entities that will drop on you when you have 10+ manned capitals on d-scan. |
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