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thekiller2002us
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:04:00 -
[1]
(1) This is not a troll
I have all my interplanetary consolidation and a level 4 command centre, and i am getting similar extraction rates to the ones i had Before pi was changed- and its also extracting for longer around 1-2 days for most things.
I only do pi on only 1 character so i'm not a massive producer but i feel that a lot of people are failing to understand the math behind the new pi interface and that is why they aren't getting the most out of their pi.
I personally think the new pi is great- a bit of a pain in having to change up my nodes every now and again but i think it more aless beats the old system, Maybe its because i'm in a wh- finally being given a break. but to all the haters of pi- take out that caluculater and try again, just my two cents
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:24:00 -
[2]
I'm actually extracting more ressources now. People just don't accept the nerfing of P2 production on one planet, that's it. -------------------------------- Fulbert. Miner - Industrialist |
Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:26:00 -
[3]
Originally by: thekiller2002us (1) This is not a troll
I have all my interplanetary consolidation and a level 4 command centre, and i am getting similar extraction rates to the ones i had Before pi was changed- and its also extracting for longer around 1-2 days for most things.
I only do pi on only 1 character so i'm not a massive producer but i feel that a lot of people are failing to understand the math behind the new pi interface and that is why they aren't getting the most out of their pi.
I personally think the new pi is great- a bit of a pain in having to change up my nodes every now and again but i think it more aless beats the old system, Maybe its because i'm in a wh- finally being given a break. but to all the haters of pi- take out that caluculater and try again, just my two cents
I'm in a WH, too.
I have limited number of planets to work with, 3 to be exact.
I was, until this patch, making consumer electronics and enriched uranium on my lava planet (moving the precious metals from a barren). I was making mechanical parts and robotics on my barren planet (moving consumer electronics to this planet from the lava). I was making oxygen and coolant on my gas planet.
With the changes to PI, this wormhole is now completely worthless. I can no longer make the PI fuels I need for my POSes.
Anyone want a worthless C3 with 3 planets and 10 moons?
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Ezzia
Minmatar Dark Reality Unified
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:29:00 -
[4]
I'm pretty much at a loss as to how the idea of an "extractor control unit" that reduced the need of cycling extractors with such heinous amounts of double clicking morphed into this terrible mess.
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Sephiroth Valentine
The Secret PoIice
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Fulbert I'm actually extracting more ressources now. People just don't accept the nerfing of P2 production on one planet, that's it.
That. Main thing that happened was overall to extract as much as you were before its using more power.
Means less room for more processors.
I don't like it. But it still works, not a popular move though from the looks of it.
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battlefar galactica
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:33:00 -
[6]
Edited by: battlefar galactica on 18/01/2011 23:36:38
Quote: I'm in a WH, too.
I have limited number of planets to work with, 3 to be exact.
I was, until this patch, making consumer electronics and enriched uranium on my lava planet (moving the precious metals from a barren). I was making mechanical parts and robotics on my barren planet (moving consumer electronics to this planet from the lava). I was making oxygen and coolant on my gas planet.
With the changes to PI, this wormhole is now completely worthless. I can no longer make the PI fuels I need for my POSes.
Anyone want a worthless C3 with 3 planets and 10 moons?
Why? Why? WHY? are you only using 3 planets in an attempt to fuel your pos??!!?!?!
I dont use my pi to fuel a pos because i know even having 3 characters with 6 elite command centres would probably have dificulty fueling a pos?
your statement is absurd or either you dont deserve to make money out of pi- the later is probably true to most gamers
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lushn
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:37:00 -
[7]
I loved this game bcuz of its compelxity. requires many calculations, future planing lots of learning. I never complained to reset extractor in every 5 hrs. First they removed difrences between races, reading cronicles took place of roleplay. Then they removed learning skills. We all stay quiet bcuz bunch of SP we get and even increased training speed. remapable atributes portion shirinked and no longer future planing needed. Now PI changed to fit basic average user's enjoyment needs. Miners , industrials being sacrificed for fun of pvp players. Everyday I see some new players who join Eve to shot something. I think soon we will find this game turned up one person shooter game. just one button for fire and one menu for ammo.
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Ezzia
Minmatar Dark Reality Unified
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: battlefar galactica
I dont use my pi to fuel a pos because i know even having 3 characters with 6 elite command centres would probably have dificulty fueling a pos?
Your a troll or utterly brain dead on how to use PI to fuel a POS. Your the one whose statement is absurd. You can easily 100% fuel a POS on two characters with five L4 command centers using the old PI.
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: battlefar galactica Edited by: battlefar galactica on 18/01/2011 23:36:38
Quote: I'm in a WH, too.
I have limited number of planets to work with, 3 to be exact.
I was, until this patch, making consumer electronics and enriched uranium on my lava planet (moving the precious metals from a barren). I was making mechanical parts and robotics on my barren planet (moving consumer electronics to this planet from the lava). I was making oxygen and coolant on my gas planet.
With the changes to PI, this wormhole is now completely worthless. I can no longer make the PI fuels I need for my POSes.
Anyone want a worthless C3 with 3 planets and 10 moons?
Why? Why? WHY? are you only using 3 planets in an attempt to fuel your pos??!!?!?!
I dont use my pi to fuel a pos because i know even having 3 characters with 6 elite command centres would probably have dificulty fueling a pos?
your statement is absurd or either you dont deserve to make money out of pi- the later is probably true to most gamers
I use 3 planets because that is all there is in this particular WH. Prior to this patch, I was able to fuel 1 large POS (with extra stuff) with these 3 planets.
Fueling 1-2 POSes is not difficult with a single character, depending on planet mix.
If you don't know what you are talking about, please keep your comments to yourself, as you add nothing but disinformation.
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Quicksilver Proteus
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:01:00 -
[10]
Perhaps I can make it work out and still produce the same as I did before the patch but my first impressions is that this sucks and the main purpose for the change is to nerf PI. I have 6 elite command centers all in .1 space and can't come even close to producing what I once was. Again, perhaps it's just me. I'd like to see some numbers from thekiler2002us to see how he is able to produce just as much as he did before.
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Zin Bloodjin
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ezzia I'm pretty much at a loss as to how the idea of an "extractor control unit" that reduced the need of cycling extractors with such heinous amounts of double clicking morphed into this terrible mess.
This^^
I'd have settled for a Ctrl+Double click to select all extractors on the planet and survey.
Way to nuke it, CCP. I now have to train 18 more days of PI skills if I want to produce the same things I was prior, thanks to the new massive powergrid needs.
Oh, and it's still a clickfest. You just have to aim better now.
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thekiller2002us
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:18:00 -
[12]
Edited by: thekiller2002us on 19/01/2011 00:21:55 Edited by: thekiller2002us on 19/01/2011 00:20:10
Originally by: Quicksilver Proteus I'd like to see some numbers from thekiler2002us to see how he is able to produce just as much as he did before.
I'M just saying what i'm seeing man, i make 1 day cycles for all my extractors (as similar to the extractors before this patch)- minus 2 or so extractors in order to increase the extraction and they are producing the same- if not more than before, it looks like to me that i'm producing too much for my basic processors to handle, the main issue i'm having is to having the most efficient number of basic processors to the amount of minerals i'm extracting.
as i said- i'm extracting more minerals per hour than the original extractors were per hour before this patch. My figures are coming from a 23 hr cycle- it is possible that this new system is effecting the short term pi players i.e 5hr or the long term 3 days+ i dont know. 'edit' "i'm of course talking about the old pi- and the transition that the pi players will have to make to the new pi on what is the most efficient extractor time- i belive it is around the original efficient time of 23 hours"
obviously this is an opinion but my advice would be try to stick to the original most effiecnt time of pi extractors of around 23 hours- since it seems to be working for me but as i said- it could be that i'm in a wormhole and the they are trying to get pi production chiefly coming from wormholes i dont know.
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Julien Brellier
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:24:00 -
[13]
As a player who has been used to 5 hour cycles, new PI sucks!
Under the old system I was producing all my own POS fuel AND sveral T2 parts that I use in manufacturing. Now I will struggle just to get the POS fuel.
The nice, efficient clickfest has been replaced with a terrible click-and-drag-and-wach-the-numbers-fest which takes far longer to reset and produces far less raw product!.
Not good.
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:48:00 -
[14]
I'm running five planets in nullsec using Advanced Command Centers as a side income. Two [Storm] planets produce Coolant. One planet [Plasma] farms Chiral Structures and Toxic Metals. Two [Barren] planets are factory planets producing Robotics and Mechanical Parts, although one of them may go back to farming Precious Metals and Reactive Metals once my stockpiles run out.
With the new changes I had to reduce production of Chiral Structures and Toxic Metals at the Plasma planet from 12 full-time basic processors, to nine full-time basic processors, excluding minor overflow, mostly because I didn't feel like demolishing the processors and launchpad. Production of coolant has fallen by an insignificant amount. also in part because I have not fully optimized the layout.
It is possible to produce at least as much P1 product now as it was prior to the new patch. However, this assumes that you are (1) optimizing your entire colony layout and placement for the new mechanics and (2) are not attempting to farm more than two P0 resources on a single planet. The new mechanics actively penalize self-sufficient planets that produce above the P2 level, since you are paying not just for the extractors, but for the extractor controllers. The most efficient extraction planets farm only a single P0. Production above the P2 level should take place at a specialized factory world. As a matter of fact, I would advocate using a separate planet for P2 production as well where possible.
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Beefedyabbi
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Posted - 2011.01.19 01:19:00 -
[15]
Liking the New PI so far.
Never enjoyed having to renew my all PI across all characters every 5 hours... trying to do that every 30 min is just insane.
The new 1hr to 14 days flexibility is good. On a 0.4 planet the differents between 1hr plan to the 14day plan - as reported by the new UI - is: ~32k/hr to ~7k/hr (base metal - i have 6 drilling heads installed in one unit).
Unlike the old choices, it is no longer as great a step down in production to go for a longer term plan (in the old way. 2x5hr plan beat a 23hr plan)
On the down side I did find it odd that a 1hr plan produced 32k/hr, whereas a 4hr plan produced 35k/h. MORE than the 1 hour plan.
But totalling it all up personally. My production will go up since iahve always gone with 5hr plan or 23hr plans, allowing a more flexible time frame to renew plans, AND I now have more time to go Missions/Mine/Market because I don't need to double click + browse plan on every mofo extractor.
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Zin Bloodjin
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Posted - 2011.01.19 01:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Beefedyabbi Liking the New PI so far.
Never enjoyed having to renew my all PI across all characters every 5 hours... trying to do that every 30 min is just insane.
The new 1hr to 14 days flexibility is good. On a 0.4 planet the differents between 1hr plan to the 14day plan - as reported by the new UI - is: ~32k/hr to ~7k/hr (base metal - i have 6 drilling heads installed in one unit).
Unlike the old choices, it is no longer as great a step down in production to go for a longer term plan (in the old way. 2x5hr plan beat a 23hr plan)
On the down side I did find it odd that a 1hr plan produced 32k/hr, whereas a 4hr plan produced 35k/h. MORE than the 1 hour plan.
But totalling it all up personally. My production will go up since iahve always gone with 5hr plan or 23hr plans, allowing a more flexible time frame to renew plans, AND I now have more time to go Missions/Mine/Market because I don't need to double click + browse plan on every mofo extractor.
Any tips for people who don't like watching paint dry?
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Maximilien Noibzo
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Posted - 2011.01.19 11:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: battlefar galactica Edited by: battlefar galactica on 18/01/2011 23:36:38
I dont use my pi to fuel a pos because i know even having 3 characters with 6 elite command centres would probably have dificulty fueling a pos? your statement is absurd or either you dont deserve to make money out of pi- the later is probably true to most gamers
Wow what is this. With the previous system, 1 character could fuel "alone" several small towers, i think you didn't set it up right.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2011.01.19 12:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Deandra Walran With the changes to PI, this wormhole is now completely worthless. I can no longer make the PI fuels I need for my POSes.
You might think that it's maybe intentional from CCP? Since there is no ice to start with in WH's? Living in a WH should *not* be easy.
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Bitchslaping Biatch
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Posted - 2011.01.19 12:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sephiroth Valentine
Originally by: Fulbert I'm actually extracting more ressources now. People just don't accept the nerfing of P2 production on one planet, that's it.
That. Main thing that happened was overall to extract as much as you were before its using more power.
Means less room for more processors.
I don't like it. But it still works, not a popular move though from the looks of it.
You must be doing something wrong couse im extracting the same or just a bit more and using 20% less of power.
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Vokradacka
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Posted - 2011.01.19 13:04:00 -
[20]
I have 2 chars = 11 planets...and i am making P2 material in 24H cycles(each planet is self-sufficient)... output after change is same as before(+- 10%)....
1/4 clickfest... i am satisfied.
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dankeeys
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Posted - 2011.01.19 13:05:00 -
[21]
@ *****slaping Biatch DonĘt just outright say someone is doing something wrong just because their PI does not stack up to yours, you donĘt have the slightest idea of their set up.
I run 14 planets in total, split in 0.2 and null sec systems. I also vary 10/4 P2 and P1 production respectively. The P2 planets have for me taken a hitąOld set up I managed to run on the majority of my P2 planets a 22 unit instillation consisting of 8 extractors, 8 basic refiners, 4 advanced refiners, a launch pad and the command centre, depending on how far my extractors where from the main group of refiners, I was able on a few to also squeeze in a Storage facilityąwhich would make a 23 unit instillation.
Now onto the revised PI setup, the maximum I can achieve is a 13 unit instillationąnow I appreciate that the set up is slightly different with the revised extractor control unit (ECU) and its respective extractor heads. So for comparisons sake letĘs omit the ECU and add the 6 heads that I can install, thatĘs a like for like 17 unit instillation. Specific to me thatĘs 2 less extractors, for each required base ore, 2 less base refiners, and one less advanced refiner.
Coupled with the above my extraction output pro-rata 4 extractors to 3 extractors has reduced circa 25%.
On my P1 planets I canĘt say I have noticed any significant changes in the ore extraction outputs; however I did not really keep much of an eye on these ones, due to more simplistic nature of their setups.
At this moment I am assuming that CCP have made the skills Planetology and its advanced variant, much more vital to acquiring high yields of ore output, and I will be training these to check.
On the surface however, with the above in mind; the fact that people are writing up on message boards that their high sec P1 planets seem to be producing higher yields than previous; and the more user friendly and lengthy cycles that are available. My view is CCP are trying to nerf the isk people can make on PI and at the same time trying to stem any market increase that the lack of supply in general may have on the market prices, by making PI more appealing to the more, lets say general high sec player.
Cheers Guys
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Aderata Nonkin
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Posted - 2011.01.19 14:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Zin Bloodjin Any tips for people who don't like watching paint dry?
Watch your clothes dry instead?
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Beefedyabbi
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Posted - 2011.01.20 00:56:00 -
[23]
Two Extra Cons I see now,
1. True for harvesting multiple resources, The large over head of the extraction control unit itself it too steep. Each extraction 'head' not installed makes the cost/extraction head more expensive to run - energy-wise.
2. The live changing report that I get from the Con unit does not match the real output. Spent ages hunting for spots that will generate the highest output. Click on Install and recheck real output, its a totally different graph and figures.
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Chelone
Junkyard Gunners
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Posted - 2011.01.20 06:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: thekiller2002us (1) This is not a troll
I have all my interplanetary consolidation and a level 4 command centre, and i am getting similar extraction rates to the ones i had Before pi was changed- and its also extracting for longer around 1-2 days for most things.
Congratulations. The patch has been out 2 days and your 1-2 day cycle is getting the same or more. That proves a lot. Get back to me and tell me whether your hotspots have all run out after one !%@$ cycle and whether you have to move everything every day or not.
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Natan Tragovian
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Posted - 2011.01.20 09:26:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Chelone
Originally by: thekiller2002us (1) This is not a troll
I have all my interplanetary consolidation and a level 4 command centre, and i am getting similar extraction rates to the ones i had Before pi was changed- and its also extracting for longer around 1-2 days for most things.
Congratulations. The patch has been out 2 days and your 1-2 day cycle is getting the same or more. That proves a lot. Get back to me and tell me whether your hotspots have all run out after one !%@$ cycle and whether you have to move everything every day or not.
This
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Lady Gabriela
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Posted - 2011.01.20 09:59:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lady Gabriela on 20/01/2011 10:00:26
Originally by: Ezzia
Originally by: battlefar galactica
I dont use my pi to fuel a pos because i know even having 3 characters with 6 elite command centres would probably have dificulty fueling a pos?
Your a troll or utterly brain dead on how to use PI to fuel a POS. Your the one whose statement is absurd. You can easily 100% fuel a POS on two characters with five L4 command centers using the old PI.
sign (both) I'm not a PI expert but I (could) fuel (in the past) my medium tower without problems in highsec with 1 character.
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Quicksilver Proteus
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Posted - 2011.01.22 21:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: thekiller2002us Edited by: thekiller2002us on 19/01/2011 00:21:55 Edited by: thekiller2002us on 19/01/2011 00:20:10
Originally by: Quicksilver Proteus I'd like to see some numbers from thekiler2002us to see how he is able to produce just as much as he did before.
I'M just saying what i'm seeing man, i make 1 day cycles for all my extractors (as similar to the extractors before this patch)- minus 2 or so extractors in order to increase the extraction and they are producing the same- if not more than before, it looks like to me that i'm producing too much for my basic processors to handle, the main issue i'm having is to having the most efficient number of basic processors to the amount of minerals i'm extracting.
as i said- i'm extracting more minerals per hour than the original extractors were per hour before this patch. My figures are coming from a 23 hr cycle- it is possible that this new system is effecting the short term pi players i.e 5hr or the long term 3 days+ i dont know. 'edit' "i'm of course talking about the old pi- and the transition that the pi players will have to make to the new pi on what is the most efficient extractor time- i belive it is around the original efficient time of 23 hours"
obviously this is an opinion but my advice would be try to stick to the original most effiecnt time of pi extractors of around 23 hours- since it seems to be working for me but as i said- it could be that i'm in a wormhole and the they are trying to get pi production chiefly coming from wormholes i dont know.
Ok, I'll agree that not all players have been negatively affected by this. It depends on your style of PI. Mine is a semi-passive approach. I make P2, P3 and P4 goods. The main money maker, the P4 item, has had it's production unaffected by the changes. The P2 planets however, have gone from 24/7 manufacturing of P2 items at 4 advanced facilities based on 5 hour cycles down to 3 advanced facilitiesm, a 25% decrease. So overall it's less then a 20% decrease. I'm still making plenty of money though and if prices go up then I'll be making the same amount soon enough anyway. So It's not a real "nerfing" really. Something to grumble about for a bit and then move on but notthing to cry about.
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Yargun
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Posted - 2011.01.22 22:11:00 -
[28]
I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree with you. They have utterly destroyed planetary interaction (mining). Prior to the update I could max my mines out and earn 330 million per week between my three toons trained on level 4 cc, and level 4 interplanetary consolidation. Now I am projecting (and seeing) and 70% and greater reduction in my extraction ability. PI is useless, I feel like a total idiot for ever wasting my time training all my toons on it, and honestly I think I am going to leave eve over it because its ticked me off so badly. I don't know why they destroyed PI, but they have, and effectively.
And by the way calculators are so 1990's, tabulated data forms (excel spreadsheet, open office) are much more effective fyi.
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Maplestone
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:58:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Maplestone on 22/01/2011 23:59:25 Edited by: Maplestone on 22/01/2011 23:58:47
Originally by: Yargun Now I am projecting (and seeing) and 70% and greater reduction in my extraction ability.
Remember that for stable-state harvesting you are now looking to maximize the rate of regeneration you are tapping, instead of just the most concentrated supply. An expected extraction cut of 70% suggests you may still be focusing on the single best hotspot. If so, try instead to find a cluster of "pretty good" peaks (suggesting multiple pools each of which regenerates seperately) and scatter the heads between them. Aim for a flat graph of harvesting-over-time (which means no net depletion is occurring and so you won't have to move the heads at all).
(my appologies if this is something you have already investigated ... I'm still tinkering and experimenting but this strategy has proven the most effective for me so far)
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Kile Kitmoore
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Posted - 2011.01.23 00:56:00 -
[30]
Thank you and to anyone posting ACTUAL before and after results. It's not good enough to say "I am doing so much better now" without qualifying it with some more information.
My skills before and after patch: Lvl. 5 - Interplantetary Consolidation / Command Center Upgrades Lvl. 4 - Everything else.
I use a combination of lowsec/hisec planets but the results are similar. Running 5 hour and sometimes 30 min. extractions in the old system. This allowed 1-CC/1 or 2 LP/ 7 Processors and the rest Extractors just doing P0>P1 which is shipped to a factory planet. My Processors ran 24 hours a day and always had excess P0 so if I missed an Extractor reset nothing stopped. This was before the patch.
The patch, I changed nothing but the obvious which was replace the old Extractors with an ECU where on some planets I could fit 2. Running 24 hour cycles and changing the heads to new hotspots does not matter, most of my planets has left half my factories sitting idle because they are not getting enough P0 materials. Some are worse then others. I keep reading how HiSec got some sort of buff from this patch, from where I am sitting with P0>P1 running 5 hr. timers in the old system this is not true for me at least.
I just want to understand if that was the intent of CCP, nerf players that used smaller extraction timers in the old system. They say there are bugs but don't really elaborate on what they are exactly. All I can do is just make the best from this change and wait for a patch and see if things get better before I start gutting colonies.
On a side note, the depletion system appears to swing a bit wild and the "Nuggets" all seem to form in one big area on the planet which seems a bit odd.
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