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What a WH ship must do to survive in a Sleeper Neut Universe

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ArcDragon Caldari Ghost Data Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr	Posted - 2011.01.20 05:22:00 - [1] I love WH's. I'm sure I'm always going to do them first before I do anything in regular space, so I pay attention to when things concerning them shift. Before the patch Sleepers did neut, but it was not nearly as strong as it is today. Here is a quick look at what a wormhole ship must be able to do, both as a ship in a fleet and as a solo ship. 1) Be able to tank massive amounts of dps because sleepers switch targets a lot. 2) Have an omni tank, lasers do 2 damage types and missles do the other 2. You will perish if your not omni tanked. 3) Be a passive fit, no one can withstand the neut capacity that sleepers are currently serving up. 4) Be able to put out massive amounts of dps as the longer you are at the site the greater chance you have of getting ganked or otherwise destroyed. 6) Remote rep fit, always a winner in C3+ wormholes. I don't know about you guys, but I think that's a very tall order. Even with a sizeable fleet. I know the quality of each fit does not have to be as high when you have a big fleet, but dang CCP, I think your getting to be unreasonable on this. If it has a SAVE button...I'm not interested.
eek amouse	Posted - 2011.01.20 05:29:00 - [2] the neuts weren't working before the patch, at least in c4 and below. you were living in easymode and didn't know it. now it's fixed and you have to adapt. you can do all of that with T3 and caps, you're just not meant to solo what you used to.
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2011.01.20 05:31:00 - [3] Ok?
Trinkets friend	Posted - 2011.01.20 06:26:00 - [4] So, you bring RR, or a Logi or two, and/or you pack a gang link on one of your BC's to buff your resists, or active tanking, or cap usage while tanking, and you'll do OK. Maybe you can't solo C4's in Tengus anymore - but should you ever have been able to?
Ace Secunda Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.01.20 10:09:00 - [5] When wormholes where first introduced two years ago we all thought they where really tough but over time we figured them out and before this patch we have even seen Tengus solo'ing certain C5 sites. It will be the same with this boost to the sleepers, yes its tough but thats what makes it fun, as for C1 - C3 sites from our experience they are not a huge amount more difficult its just C4+ that will need cap management tactics involved from now on. 'If I can't blow it up It don't exsist'
Rina Maas Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.20 12:27:00 - [6] Learn to fit a gang for a small pvp. The neuts do what they are supposed to. It was wrong for CCP to take so long to fix them on sleepers. It should not of been possible to solo the more difficult WHs. Cap boosters work wonders in emergencies - otherwise logistics are worth their weight in iskies :)
Dabusiness	Posted - 2011.01.20 13:13:00 - [7] The only problem with logistics in c5/6 is keeping the buggers alive. When 5 or 6 guardians suddenly switch target to your Logi, you better have a lot of reps on it for it to survive.
Rina Maas Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.20 13:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Dabusiness The only problem with logistics in c5/6 is keeping the buggers alive. When 5 or 6 guardians suddenly switch target to your Logi, you better have a lot of reps on it for it to survive. Guess what gets hit firtst in pvp?
Dabusiness	Posted - 2011.01.20 13:31:00 - [9] yeah i know. but the worst part i find is that you can't define a setup that relies on the logi....the logi has to be a bonus element to the setup to make things easier. if u rely on it and it gets popped u are truly screwed!
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.01.20 15:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Dabusiness you can't define a setup that relies on the logi Once again, you're doing it wrong.
Onyc Noziroh Altless	Posted - 2011.01.20 16:25:00 - [11] Originally by: Dabusiness if u rely on it and it gets popped u are truly screwed! Working as intended. Believe it or not, CCP is doing everyone a favor by adjusting NPC AI to require a more PvP-centric approach.
Alex Luther	Posted - 2011.01.20 20:12:00 - [12] Edited by: Alex Luther on 20/01/2011 20:13:46 Wait so... Grief successful? STEP 1. Get hundreds of pilots (from small groups of 1-3 and larger corps from 50+ members) and encourage them to move into wormholes, specifically into c3's to c5's. STEP 2. Let them get comfortable farming these wormholes by themselves or with small groups of tengu's and legions relying on the broken neut capabilities of the sleepers to keep themselves from running out of cap while having super massive deadspace fit active tanks... STEP 3. Let 2 years go by to make sure Step 2 has had time to work in. STEP 4. Introduce a new expansion... STEP 5. Right before downtime put into the patch notes something totally non relevant to the new patch; with wording equivalent to "... And oh yeah... remember that broken neut thingy on the sleepers we never fixed from 2 years ago and let you all think we'd leave broken? Well yeah we decided to fix that, bye....." So time to pack up your 2bill isk overpriced domination towers or try to adapt to the situation at hand by recruiting more ppl and getting epically scammed... Just sayin'
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.20 20:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Alex Luther Edited by: Alex Luther on 20/01/2011 20:13:46 Wait so... Grief successful? STEP 1. Get hundreds of pilots (from small groups of 1-3 and larger corps from 50+ members) and encourage them to move into wormholes, specifically into c3's to c5's. STEP 2. Let them get comfortable farming these wormholes by themselves or with small groups of tengu's and legions relying on the broken neut capabilities of the sleepers to keep themselves from running out of cap while having super massive deadspace fit active tanks... STEP 3. Let 2 years go by to make sure Step 2 has had time to work in. STEP 4. Introduce a new expansion... STEP 5. Right before downtime put into the patch notes something totally non relevant to the new patch; with wording equivalent to "... And oh yeah... remember that broken neut thingy on the sleepers we never fixed from 2 years ago and let you all think we'd leave broken? Well yeah we decided to fix that, bye....." So time to pack up your 2bill isk overpriced domination towers or try to adapt to the situation at hand by recruiting more ppl and getting epically scammed... Just sayin' Which of course was the expansion directly following the "Infiltrate an alliance and break it up" trailer.
Kazicht Cixit	Posted - 2011.01.21 02:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Alex Luther Edited by: Alex Luther on 20/01/2011 20:13:46 Wait so... Grief successful? STEP 1. Get hundreds of pilots (from small groups of 1-3 and larger corps from 50+ members) and encourage them to move into wormholes, specifically into c3's to c5's. STEP 2. Let them get comfortable farming these wormholes by themselves or with small groups of tengu's and legions relying on the broken neut capabilities of the sleepers to keep themselves from running out of cap while having super massive deadspace fit active tanks... STEP 3. Let 2 years go by to make sure Step 2 has had time to work in. STEP 4. Introduce a new expansion... STEP 5. Right before downtime put into the patch notes something totally non relevant to the new patch; with wording equivalent to "... And oh yeah... remember that broken neut thingy on the sleepers we never fixed from 2 years ago and let you all think we'd leave broken? Well yeah we decided to fix that, bye....." So time to pack up your 2bill isk overpriced domination towers or try to adapt to the situation at hand by recruiting more ppl and getting epically scammed... Just sayin' Want some cheese with that whine?
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2011.01.21 05:38:00 - [15] Edited by: Rip Minner on 21/01/2011 05:41:47 Originally by: Rina Maas Originally by: Dabusiness The only problem with logistics in c5/6 is keeping the buggers alive. When 5 or 6 guardians suddenly switch target to your Logi, you better have a lot of reps on it for it to survive. Guess what gets hit firtst in pvp? Ya only this is not pvp it's pve and it's for iskies. After hiting any pve in any game a few times if you keep doing it. It's only for gain. In EVE it's for iskies or loot that leads to iskies. Ship loss in EVE is heavy loss. It's not like O my raid in what ever xyz game just wiped no bigie lets try again. In eve now your in a isk hole. The hole thing just became unprofitable. As a sidenote I think it's great. Drive the prices of Tech 3 High as a kite I would love that. I also think Incursion's are going to go this way as well. Not profitable for the large majority of players. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Rahnim	Posted - 2011.01.21 05:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Dabusiness The only problem with logistics in c5/6 is keeping the buggers alive. When 5 or 6 guardians suddenly switch target to your Logi, you better have a lot of reps on it for it to survive. actually people who know what they are doing bring either of two really good options to class 5-6 2-3 guardians(or other logi) or remote reps on all the ships.
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.21 09:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Rina Maas Originally by: Dabusiness The only problem with logistics in c5/6 is keeping the buggers alive. When 5 or 6 guardians suddenly switch target to your Logi, you better have a lot of reps on it for it to survive. Guess what gets hit firtst in pvp? ECM boat Pod
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2011.01.21 11:45:00 - [18] Ah so ppl rant because they cant do C4 in 1.5B ISK tengu - they need two 50M ISK drakes with remote rep and shield rep drones now. OOO GOD we are doomed for life. I.
UnkreativerBastard	Posted - 2011.01.21 14:07:00 - [19] Oh god, so funny to see all those highsec mission runners or lowsec bot users telling us about whs.. C5 and C6 was always a hard fight from the beginning.. u need to wrok a lot with tons of mates and build ur caps to have a chance to make em.. Now with the neut its NOT possible any more to do those sites.. I checked every ship every gang, sniper , RR , 8+ carriers , heavy ecm, nothing can hold those guardians. 8 of them means 12 heavy neuts => faction fitted carrier empty in 5 minutes. Sleeper Range 330km, so it doesnt matter where u warp in, they will just instantkill ur ecmscorps. To sniperdreads, Yeah u can fit a Dread hitting over 200+ in siege.. BUT Sleepers also hit.. and there is no fitting with dps >100 that can hit over 200 and has a tank that can stand those sleepers. T3 spider tank Lets say 20 Tengus spidertank The AI sees focus doesnt work-> they splitt Dmg and all tengus are empty within half and hour... So CCP Your going to allow MS and Titans in whs? There is NO way to do those C5+ sites... Another patch that ****s small corps that are working hard for their money. Should we all join big alliances and bot in lowsec/0.0? Why don't fix the bot problem..... THX for the Patch think about 500+ people will stop playing because of that "nice" patch. 500 x 15 = 7500 $ / months less.. damn u guys musst be rich. Yours Unk Ceo Basterds
Bibosikus Gallente Universal Moose Federation	Posted - 2011.01.21 14:07:00 - [20] I can't remember when neuting actually stopped, but I do remember hardly noticing at the time. But it wasn't long after the expansion, and certainly before the majority of C5-6-dwelling corps even moved in to their homes. The Sleeper graphic for nossing (which was wrong anyway) remained, which confused things further. You can easily solo C1-C4 anomalies in a T2-fitted Tengu. I did this on SISI recently, a few days before the patch occurred. I put a report in the Test Server Feedback channel. Seriously, for C1-4 systems this is no big deal. Stop scaremongering
Emperor Salazar Caldari Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.21 14:35:00 - [21] If you can't do C5 or C6 holes now, you don't deserve to be there in the first place. There are plenty of people that have already adapted (or did so pre-patch via the test server. Stop crying or go back to lvl 4 missions.
MarkusUpo	Posted - 2011.01.21 14:38:00 - [22] You ? otherwise talk to the hand... hate those smart asses..
UnkreativerBastard	Posted - 2011.01.21 14:41:00 - [23] Ah nice to see those former jealously people that never succeded in whs are happy about the patch:) Hahahaha :)
Emperor Salazar Caldari Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.21 15:00:00 - [24] Originally by: MarkusUpo You ? otherwise talk to the hand... hate those smart asses.. how old are you?
Emperor Salazar Caldari Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.21 15:13:00 - [25] [Class 4 Tengu] Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Photon Scattering Field II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Cap Recharger II Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers 1400 Tank stable at 58%, 600 DPS, roughly 1.6 billion but will manage most C4 sites pretty easily. Throw in a set of LG crystals for more tank, blue pill and overheating for emergencies. Yes you have to drop the augmented capacitor for the cap regen. Get over it.
Sidon Calais	Posted - 2011.01.21 15:17:00 - [26] I can't believe that no one has figured out that this tuning is preparation for the long awaited introduction of t3 battleships. :) Now speculate you lemmings!
MarkusUpo	Posted - 2011.01.21 15:32:00 - [27] !!!![Class 4 Tengu]!!!! Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Photon Scattering Field II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Cap Recharger II Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers we talking about class 5 mate... c4 is kindergarten.. please read before posting
Emperor Salazar Caldari Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2011.01.21 15:40:00 - [28] Originally by: MarkusUpo !!!![Class 4 Tengu]!!!! Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Photon Scattering Field II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Cap Recharger II Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II,Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers we talking about class 5 mate... c4 is kindergarten.. please read before posting You're an idiot, the thread is about the changes in general. If you think you should be able to solo C5 then you are delusional. My point was that I can still do C4 without a problem. C5 and C6 strategies have to be slightly modified, but its still possible. Anyone who thinks they are impossible are probably the people that simply copied other peoples strategies after the practices were well established. Nice troll though brah
Alexander Yukari	Posted - 2011.01.21 15:42:00 - [29] Oh well time to speed up training of logi.
Flair Tachyon Amarr Hollywood Minerals Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.21 15:50:00 - [30] Edited by: Flair Tachyon on 21/01/2011 15:52:18 That fit does not work anymore. If you are alone in a site the sleepers neut you so dry in a t3 that the only active mod you wil be able to sustain is the suitcase. That being said, the neut patch only made life harder for solo pilots. We regularily do c5 sites/anomalys with 4 Tengu + 1 Chimera. Worked well before the patch, und after replacing active tanks with passive buffertanks it works the same as before. This fit works well with 3+ gangmates. The buffer is sufficient for the first capital escalation, if you need more safety there is enough room to replace the painter with a second extender. It is also much cheaper than anything using deadspace boosters and faction invu-fields. [Tengu, passive missiles] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II Capacitor Power Relay II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Pithum C-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum C-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender Pithum C-Type Explosion Dampening Amplifier Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Large Shield Transporter II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding -edit: spelling

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