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Saelie
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:20:00 -
[1]
Incursions promise to be the biggest flop in EVE's history because it's a concept that runs anathema to the game's core values. What do I mean? Here's an explanation of incursions and the reasons they're going to fail.
1) They're too hard. This is the principle complaint. There are frigates in these plexes that do more damage than mission battleships, and they have more electronic warfare than a Caldari attack squad. I have never seen ships die as quickly as they do in incursions, except in major fleet battles where someone gets primaried by two dozen Armageddons. This is going to result in a lot of dead carebears and a lot of bad press. This leads to...
2) They're unprofitable. The rewards for these sites pale in comparison to the risk assumed in taking them on. Who's going to risk a 200m ship that could go down in flames with a few seconds' bad luck in a site that takes an hour to clear and only gives you ten mil with no salvage or loot? And you don't even get the loyalty points unless the entire incursion is defeated, a process that takes a long time and is not certain by any means. Level four missions give more ISK in less time with no risk compared to Incursion sites.
3) They go against what EVE is. Bear with me on this one. EVE is a game that teaches you from the beginning that everybody is a jerk who is out to kill you and steal your stuff. You see it everywhere - Griefer wardecs, suicide gankers, ninja-salvagers, piracy, scamming, price-gouging, and all that good stuff that makes EVE EVE. The problem is that Incursions rely on getting a bunch of random strangers to work together, in a game where EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES ON teaches you that everyone else is out to screw you. This is obviously a recipe for failure. It also leads to the last major flaw.
4) Incursions are too restrictive. Null-sec incursions will only be run by the alliance that controls that area, if they feel like it. If they don't, they'll just camp it and kill people trying to get to it. Low-sec is exactly the same, only worse - Pirates will camp the Hell out of the incursion sites, which are publicly-listed and anyone can see them. And if you do get a group together to clear these sites, once the loot drops the group will self-destruct and kill each other in an orgy of violence. This makes the high-sec ones the only that are even readily doable, making them even less profitable because there will be too many people in a site.
Considering all this, I won't be surprised if Incursions are the hot new thing for a month or two, until eventually they wind up like a more obnoxious version of faction warfare - People avoid affected areas, and only a few die-hards farm the sites while everyone else just buys the rewards with their more easily-farmed ISK.
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PTang
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:21:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Saelie
They're too hard. This is the principle complaint. There are frigates in these plexes that do more damage than mission battleships
they do as much damage as frigates in pvp. whats the issue here?
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Sinister Dextor
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:22:00 -
[3]
I'm guessing you are very familiar with failure.
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Ephemeron
Lubricous
Rebel Alliance of New Eden
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:23:00 -
[4]
they were designed to cater to blob warfare. Most carebears judge strength by comparing their solo ratting bs.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:25:00 -
[5]
You've never been on a lemmings leap with eve radio I take it.
A bunch of us random people (most of which don't know each other) get together and form a blob and roam lowsec. Most of the time the few pirates encountered in lowsec just run when they see 30+ people spike local. Some of them hotdrop, most of the time you'll just see the system clear out though.
I don't think it will be as bad as you may think.
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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James Giovanni
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ephemeron
they were designed to cater to blob warfare. Most carebears judge strength by comparing their solo ratting bs.
actually if you have more than the number of people, the rewards get lower and lower.
so blobing is a terrible way to do it.
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Kahega Amielden
T.R.I.A.D
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:30:00 -
[7]
Quote:
The problem is that Incursions rely on getting a bunch of random strangers to work together, in a game where EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES ON teaches you that everyone else is out to screw you. This is obviously a recipe for failure. It also leads to the last major flaw.
uhh, random strangers? If you watch the video dev blogs, CCP <something> specifically mentioned that incursions are to be done with friends. Doing incursions with strangers sounds like a horrible idea.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:30:00 -
[8]
I, too, have no friends and wish to vent my nerd rage at expansion content designed for group PvE.
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Saelie
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:32:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Saelie on 21/01/2011 00:33:15
Originally by: PTang
Originally by: Saelie
They're too hard. This is the principle complaint. There are frigates in these plexes that do more damage than mission battleships
they do as much damage as frigates in pvp. whats the issue here?
The only frigate that comes near the DPS of an Incursion frigate is a stealth bomber, and stealth bombers are squishy, fragile little things that die if you look at them funny. Incursion frigates are generally neither fragile nor squishy. They're frigates doing the DPS of DPS-fit cruisers (Omni damage mind you, something no player ship can do except Minmatar/Caldari ships with multiple types of ammo fitted), some with tanks like battlecruisers, that also have microwarpdrives and a bevy of electronic warfare. You show me the player-usable frigate that can do all this and I'll show you a win button.
Unless incursions are radically different than they were on Sisi two weeks ago, where it took eight guys in commandships/battleships with logistics support to clear out a simple Vanguard site where the biggest spawn was six frigates, then Incursions are significantly harder than a lot of people think.
I await further trolling by people who don't play Sisi.
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Ephemeron
Lubricous
Rebel Alliance of New Eden
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: James Giovanni
Originally by: Ephemeron
they were designed to cater to blob warfare. Most carebears judge strength by comparing their solo ratting bs.
actually if you have more than the number of people, the rewards get lower and lower.
so blobing is a terrible way to do it.
as long as the FC gets to loot the boss wreck for faction supercarrier, I don't see a problem with rewards
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Xituqtra
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:51:00 -
[11]
whine whine whine whine
Incursions are easy if you know how to
I've been on test server got a random group of people together all in ravens some in shield logi's and it went pretty good nobody died (exept the idiot that had only fitted extenders and no resists)
it's almost like pvp and I love pvp so I will probably love incursions to
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Dar Vender
Gallente
BOAE INC
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Posted - 2011.01.21 01:01:00 -
[12]
Why does everything have to be about risk/reward. Your main complaint is that these sites offer you a challenge and are different from the PvE content you have at the moment?? What happened to getting some friends and having a laugh while running actual risk so its all the sweeter when you clear it and stay alive. You are basicly complaining to sum things up, that this new free PvE content that is optional to those that dont want to do it is not a new way to grind and offers actual combat thrills that could easily blow you to pieces if you dont concentrate or work as a team? It seems like it is offering something different to those that would like to try some fleet combat in high sec that dosent involve war decks and station camping?
As for the allience space argument. I think it would be fun to get together with allience and/or corp mates and do some of these sites. Plus who would go to run ones of these in the middle of an alliences space if your not blue?? They would deserve to get popped, podded and sent packing.
Also against eve's feel? Its harsh, unforgiving and offers little in the way of rewards - sounds like eve mythos to me 
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Chlamydia Di Pellagra
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Posted - 2011.01.21 01:03:00 -
[13]
No lag problem, no problem.
Lag problem, big problem.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.21 01:20:00 -
[14]
Pretend it is a PVP engagement and you will be just fine. People don't use Golems for PVP *hint*
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Sahmul
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Posted - 2011.01.21 01:21:00 -
[15]
You said it yourself OP, level 4 missioning has basically 0 risk for good rewards. Seems to me therefore that is a mission issue, not an Incursion issue.
As for grouping with "Random Strangers", one could, oh I don't know, group up with corp mates and friends instead...
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Visitmaniac
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Posted - 2011.01.26 02:25:00 -
[16]
Just did my first incursion mission after trying to form a fleet and find one to do for 3 hours! Blew up all the waves of bad dudes lots about 10 ships in combat in the fleet all to have some newbie come in and take the civs we needed to return to the doc to complete the incursion mission. What a waste! The ships are way to overpowered unless your a strong ass BS you don't stand a damn chance. You pretty much have to have more numbers or right up to the payout level to even complete an incursion anyways. Huge flop I say CCP needs to revamp this in a hurry or this games going down fast!
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.26 02:27:00 -
[17]
1.) CCP needs a isk sink
2.) agreed but thats ccp anti inflation ship dying stance
3.) it is incorparating peeps but 1+2 make it difficult
4.) CCP does restrictive narrow gameplay reallyh well
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Cruel Crow
Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate
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Posted - 2011.01.26 02:29:00 -
[18]
Stay out of the wormholes, cause sleepers going to bite
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Judge Ment
BOOM BOOM POW
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Posted - 2011.01.26 02:33:00 -
[19]
RUNAWAY LIKE TRUE GOONS!!!
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We judge others by actions
We judge ourselves by intentions. |
Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.01.26 02:34:00 -
[20]
i love it, for years people while that the pve part of EVE is to easy.. The very same day new harder content comes out, people fry for nerfs wanting it easier.. .. am i the only one that dont get this to match up?
Really.. whining on day one.. not even waiting and see if a strategy can be thought out.. (btw it has already since people are clearing sites just it hasnt spread out enough it seems)..
But.. wow.. i .. am speachless
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Mina Hiragi
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2011.01.26 02:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
i love it, for years people while that the pve part of EVE is to easy.. The very same day new harder content comes out, people fry for nerfs wanting it easier.. .. am i the only one that dont get this to match up?
I hope so, to be honest.
You don't exactly need to train Basic Logic to level I even to comprehend that EVE has a great deal of players, often with differing opinions on various aspects of the game
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:06:00 -
[22]
It isn't geared to have random people group up in unruly blob fleets with no skills, leadership, discipline, tactics etc and compete or beat battle tested 'friends' who know WTF they are doing. Despite what CCP tries to 'sell' that isn't how they will work 'best'.
Are they the best isk/hr ratio, maybe, maybe not, do they beat l4's no they don't. Why don't they? Well, you can solo l4's and not get your reward 'stolen', for the most part, by someone else running your mission 'better' than you it can happen but is unlikely.
If people are having trouble with incursions maybe they should go to the test server and try running them there, learn some pvp, fight some sleepers then when they have reliable 'friends' try incursions. IMO if you don't have the PVP skills, ie fleet tactics etc, and expect to cake walk incursions you haven't been paying attention for months of forum topics that have been going on about them.
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Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: HeliosGal
1.) CCP needs a isk sink
No ISK is destroyed in doing Incursions. Quite the opposite, lots of ISK is generated in hundreds of insurance payouts from ship losses.
Do you have any idea what an isk sink is?
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Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:16:00 -
[24]
Quote:
1) They're too hard. This is the principle complaint. There are frigates in these plexes that do more damage than mission battleships, and they have more electronic warfare than a Caldari attack squad. I have never seen ships die as quickly as they do in incursions, except in major fleet battles where someone gets primaried by two dozen Armageddons. This is going to result in a lot of dead carebears and a lot of bad press. This leads to...
Wait...frigates doing more damage that mission battleships??? Dude, these frigs are made to mimic PVPers, every single PVP frig can out dps a mission battleship. Working as intended.
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Ocih
Amarr
The Program
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:16:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ocih on 26/01/2011 03:22:32
So it wont be farming material?
That's a good thing i suppose. Of course, it will be farm material, just not for the masses. Rather for the exclusive few who farm everything else of value in EvE. Like high tech moons etc.
Originally by: Visitmaniac
Just did my first incursion mission after trying to form a fleet and find one to do for 3 hours! Blew up all the waves of bad dudes lots about 10 ships in combat in the fleet all to have some newbie come in and take the civs we needed to return to the doc to complete the incursion mission. What a waste! The ships are way to overpowered unless your a strong ass BS you don't stand a damn chance. You pretty much have to have more numbers or right up to the payout level to even complete an incursion anyways. Huge flop I say CCP needs to revamp this in a hurry or this games going down fast!
I feel bad for these people but I've also learned there isn't much I can do for them. Griefers will stencil what they can and can't do in EvE and Devs dont give a ****e. Never have, never will. Find something else do do or find a new game. So it is with EvE.
Add on: Thread is 90% troll. So it is with EvE forums. |
Alaura Aquila
Minmatar
JOKAS Industries
Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
i love it, for years people while that the pve part of EVE is to easy.. The very same day new harder content comes out, people fry for nerfs wanting it easier.. .. am i the only one that dont get this to match up?
Really.. whining on day one.. not even waiting and see if a strategy can be thought out.. (btw it has already since people are clearing sites just it hasnt spread out enough it seems)..
But.. wow.. i .. am speachless
The OP probably has a Night Elf Alliance character in another game.
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Mira Robinson
Arkons of Myth
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:24:00 -
[27]
I understand the principle of doing it with friends and corpmates,
but some of us have tried and failed to recruit 7 friends into the game, and I doubt these Incursions can be done with only 7 people.
I cannot see this being enjoyable for the majority of the playerbase (aka the highseccers that aren't all that versed in fleet fights). Of course the hardcore are going to scoff at everyone complaining at the skyrocketed difficulty. CCP couldn't do much to ruffle their feathers.
If it is the goal of CCP to increase the subscribing base, I cannot see Incursions doing it. Players of all experience levels need to be able to enjoy it, and anyone with less than 10M SP is gonna get ****d by these invasions.
Just my honest take on it.
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Welcome to EVE. Ship happens. |
Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:28:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Katsura Kotonoha on 26/01/2011 03:28:14
Originally by: Aessoroz
Quote:
1) They're too hard. This is the principle complaint. There are frigates in these plexes that do more damage than mission battleships, and they have more electronic warfare than a Caldari attack squad. I have never seen ships die as quickly as they do in incursions, except in major fleet battles where someone gets primaried by two dozen Armageddons. This is going to result in a lot of dead carebears and a lot of bad press. This leads to...
Wait...frigates doing more damage that mission battleships??? Dude, these frigs are made to mimic PVPers, every single PVP frig can out dps a mission battleship. Working as intended.
The frigates are supposed to be bombers.
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Biomass MeNOW
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:31:00 -
[29]
Like COSMOS, and Faction Warfare that followed it, Incurions will be aw-gee-whiz-bang for a few months, and then left to languish completely forgotten by the people who developed it.
The only changes that will ever be made will be to restrict how heavily it can be farmed for profits (COSMOS: 2b a day, FacWar pretty close to that). Other than that, don't expect to ever see any changes after the first couple of nerft-to-death Sansha capital ships are produced.
In short: Majorly useless loose-loose proposition for the game.
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Aedan Vals
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:33:00 -
[30]
1, it's called challenging. also someone wrote ccp need isk sink. yeah maybe, but the incursions arent one.
2, you can go back then farming lvl4s. i dont play a game just to be rich in it.
3, then they wouldnt be alliances and corps. yeah there are jerks but not everyone.
4, you risk more you get more.
the incursions are awesome, whiners gonna whine and pve ships goes boom
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