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CNR vs CNS help please

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Bumpage	Posted - 2011.01.21 01:59:00 - [1] Hey, I've been trying to decide which of these ships to fly i'm currently using the CNR however my cap skills do not allow me to use 3x Rigors i've built 2 setup's which you can see in this screenshot. Major + to the scorp having 2x painters not sure if it's worth the dps drop tho? http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/557/navyissueravenvsscorp.jpg Any Comments on which ship to fly and why would be a great help or even a new fitting? keep in mind i'm not willing to go Cap unstable for slighly more gank as i'm still quite new to level 4 missions.
Val'Dore Word Bearers of Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.21 02:30:00 - [2] Scorpion looks awesome. That's all that matters. ~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Goaty mang Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.21 02:45:00 - [3] The CNR and CNS are great Scorp is (as Val said) Very sexy. But essentially is just a Raven with a massive tank. If you are having issues with cap skills. Train them don't buy a new ship, It wont fix your skills or lack of experience. As to Cap unstable , well i am sure someone will say something about that.
Bumpage	Posted - 2011.01.21 02:51:00 - [4] Well my cap skills arnt exactly bad just need alittle tweak ... However the post was mainly made due to not being sure if 1-3 rigors are worse than 2x painters on a slightly less dps ship to be honest. If EFT is correct my dps is only really changing on frigates which drones "should" take care of them in afew seconds i guess i'll stick with the CNR unless someone posts with a good reason why not =) Thanks for posting
General Trajan Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.21 03:10:00 - [5] ya know, you can still be cap stable and fit all the rigor rigs you want right? all depends on how much you're willing to pay to get it done. for instance, a dual gistii a-type small booster tank can tank all mission rooms. and remember this, a 400dps sustained tank can get it done for all L4 missions. so above that is just pure overkill.
Bumpage	Posted - 2011.01.21 03:18:00 - [6] Yeah i know i can be cap stable with spending alot more isk... Going down to a medium booster for 500mil more gives almost the same tank for alot less cap however my budget is about 1bil atm :( ... Anyway can anyone tell me which ship is most likely to be more worth while over time? reguardless of current setups as skills will change anyway
General Trajan Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.21 03:34:00 - [7] Edited by: General Trajan on 21/01/2011 03:34:27 Originally by: Bumpage Yeah i know i can be cap stable with spending alot more isk... Going down to a medium booster for 500mil more gives almost the same tank for alot less cap however my budget is about 1bil atm :( ... Anyway can anyone tell me which ship is most likely to be more worth while over time? reguardless of current setups as skills will change anyway not hard to figure what ship is best for pve. it all boils down to what YOU value more! you value safety over isk per hour? then navy scorp is your ship. want to make the most isk per hour right now? then obviously it's the CNR. look, tanking with the CNR isn't a problem. so fit it for the most damage potential. "the faster you can kill the less you'll need to tank" i'm quite sure you know all this. you've stuck your big toe in the water and know it's cold. now you need to decide if you're ready to take the plunge or not!
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.21 05:00:00 - [8] Don't use tps with cruises. Most of the time targets you're hitting will be further than tp's reliable range anyway. Change them for cap mods and use rigor rigs instead. CNR is bigger on gank, SNI on tank. Invest in faction bcs, they're well worth it. For CNR, fit 4 bcs for full gank. The reason is that, a 4 bcs SNI does the same dps as 3 bcs CNR, while having better cap and far better tank. CNR is wasted if it's not fit for full gank. Use cap booster fit if necessary. For SNI, ideally 4 bcs also, as you'll have more than enough tank anyway. Considering the nature of your fits, here's a rich overtanked SNI fit, 759 dps, cap stable, tank is... a lot, change specific hardners. Not something I'd fly, but knock yourself out. [Scorpion Navy Issue, New Setup 1] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Paradise Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Hammerhead II x5
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2011.01.21 05:56:00 - [9] Originally by: Bumpage Yeah i know i can be cap stable with spending alot more isk... Going down to a medium booster for 500mil more gives almost the same tank for alot less cap however my budget is about 1bil atm :( ... Anyway can anyone tell me which ship is most likely to be more worth while over time? reguardless of current setups as skills will change anyway a pithum c-type medium booster is cheaper than a gist x-type large. 2x pithi b-type small shield boosters would be a bit cheaper. I'd still go with a cap injected setup. permatanks are boring!
M'ktakh	Posted - 2011.01.21 09:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Goose99 Don't use tps with cruises. Most of the time targets you're hitting will be further than tp's reliable range anyway. Change them for cap mods and use rigor rigs instead. What? What? Apart from Worlds Collide, there are rarely enemies past the 70km marks.
Drakarin Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus	Posted - 2011.01.21 09:38:00 - [11] Originally by: General Trajan ya know, you can still be cap stable and fit all the rigor rigs you want right? all depends on how much you're willing to pay to get it done. for instance, a dual gistii a-type small booster tank can tank all mission rooms. and remember this, a 400dps sustained tank can get it done for all L4 missions. so above that is just pure overkill. Smash the Supplier. The Assault. Worlds Collide. I think there's one more faction mission that would melt a ship with such a pitiful tank. Unless you're using a fast ship too, 400 dps tank is not even close to enough for all missions. You'd have to warp out and recharge your shields // cap quite a few times, and missions like worlds collide could very easily destroy your ship.
Sandrine Brousse	Posted - 2011.01.21 10:04:00 - [12] I was using a standard raven with a t2 medium shield booster... then moved to a scorp navy, and then a cnr followed by a golem. CNR is better than a scorp, for one thing the missiles reach the target quicker, and you can blitz missions faster than a golem.
Maze La'Zie Sons Of 0din C0NVICTED	Posted - 2011.01.21 10:52:00 - [13] It's been a while since I missioned in a CNR, but I didn't worry about cap stability, I had a cap booster fitted and some cap 800s in the hold and could therefore replace all the cap mods for damage ones for a mean 'dps tank'. This worked very well for me, there were still a couple of missions where things were tight, but I recommend at least trying it this way, see if it suits your play style. Navy scorp I have never flown, looks nice tho.
RadioControlled Dvice Shipyards	Posted - 2011.01.21 10:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Drakarin Originally by: General Trajan ya know, you can still be cap stable and fit all the rigor rigs you want right? all depends on how much you're willing to pay to get it done. for instance, a dual gistii a-type small booster tank can tank all mission rooms. and remember this, a 400dps sustained tank can get it done for all L4 missions. so above that is just pure overkill. Smash the Supplier. The Assault. Worlds Collide. I think there's one more faction mission that would melt a ship with such a pitiful tank. Unless you're using a fast ship too, 400 dps tank is not even close to enough for all missions. You'd have to warp out and recharge your shields // cap quite a few times, and missions like worlds collide could very easily destroy your ship. Gank >>> tank. I used to run WC and Assault with a somewhat 'hybrid' armortanked Navy Mega (LAR,2 hards, 2 trimarks). Sustained ratspecific tank was 150-ish, burst around 300 - but it did them quite easily. Try other ideas before you dismiss them.
Bumpage	Posted - 2011.01.21 11:32:00 - [15] Thanks for the posts :) I would try with the Cap Booster comments tho that would put atleast 1 primary resist at around 70-75% i may invest in some complex hardeners i believe they give alittle extra? I'm glad someone else posted about the 400tanked guys post i tried a standard raven fit tanked around that level and got my face melted =D Put it this way if i was scrammed i'd of died :P lol
Kuhn Arashi Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.21 11:35:00 - [16] Originally by: RadioControlled Originally by: Drakarin Originally by: General Trajan ya know, you can still be cap stable and fit all the rigor rigs you want right? all depends on how much you're willing to pay to get it done. for instance, a dual gistii a-type small booster tank can tank all mission rooms. and remember this, a 400dps sustained tank can get it done for all L4 missions. so above that is just pure overkill. Smash the Supplier. The Assault. Worlds Collide. I think there's one more faction mission that would melt a ship with such a pitiful tank. Unless you're using a fast ship too, 400 dps tank is not even close to enough for all missions. You'd have to warp out and recharge your shields // cap quite a few times, and missions like worlds collide could very easily destroy your ship. Gank >>> tank. I used to run WC and Assault with a somewhat 'hybrid' armortanked Navy Mega (LAR,2 hards, 2 trimarks). Sustained ratspecific tank was 150-ish, burst around 300 - but it did them quite easily. Try other ideas before you dismiss them. Agree'd, dead ships don't shoot.
Marc Furey Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.21 11:39:00 - [17] Edited by: Marc Furey on 21/01/2011 11:40:08 Edited by: Marc Furey on 21/01/2011 11:39:32 Whats the average sig radius of level 4 npcs? The Rattlesnake with heavy drones will actually out-damage a CNR on anything with a sig radius less than 210, by my numbers. Both with Rigor II & 2x Rigor I.
Le Meistars	Posted - 2011.01.21 11:44:00 - [18] I think that CNR is the best that Caldari can offer and u can buy. I have a CNR fit which has 660dmg/sec + drones, 909HP/4sek, cap stabile and it uses 3 mission spesific hardeners If it had the same agility as Tengu I would run all my missions with it
Marc Furey Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.21 11:47:00 - [19] Meh, the Liang fit is much more fun. 859 dps.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.21 12:12:00 - [20] Originally by: Bumpage Hey, I've been trying to decide which of these ships to fly i'm currently using the CNR however my cap skills do not allow me to use 3x Rigors i've built 2 setup's which you can see in this screenshot. Major + to the scorp having 2x painters not sure if it's worth the dps drop tho? http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/557/navyissueravenvsscorp.jpg Any Comments on which ship to fly and why would be a great help or even a new fitting? keep in mind i'm not willing to go Cap unstable for slighly more gank as i'm still quite new to level 4 missions. For PVE? CNR, it has more dps. For PVP? Both, depends on what you want. CNR got great gankage. CNS got decent tank and can almost solo due to abundant mid slots giving you a good tank and good tackle. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.21 12:21:00 - [21] In short: CNR → More gank. CNS → More tank. àand you don't particularly need a lot of tank. This should explain your options entirely. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Bumpage	Posted - 2011.01.21 12:24:00 - [22] Thanks for all the posts people :) I'm pretty sure i'll just stick with the CNR get abit more experience with the missions and drop some tank and then upgrade to a Golem if i get bored of it lol running back to get a Noc to salvage is crap :P (If even worth it sometimes)
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.21 12:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Marc Furey Edited by: Marc Furey on 21/01/2011 11:40:08 Edited by: Marc Furey on 21/01/2011 11:39:32 Whats the average sig radius of level 4 npcs? The Rattlesnake with heavy drones will actually out-damage a CNR on anything with a sig radius less than 210, by my numbers. Both with Rigor II & 2x Rigor I. Do your numbers include the 50 % of wasted time when your slow as hell heavy drones have to slow boat from one target to another ? Pod
Bumpage	Posted - 2011.01.21 12:40:00 - [24] Edited by: Bumpage on 21/01/2011 12:40:26 I kinda ignored the heavy drone post due to Elite drones/frigs laughing at them as they fly past waving goodbye to all if not most of there dps - Light/medium ftw Carry both =D
ZeJesus	Posted - 2011.01.21 12:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Drakarin Originally by: General Trajan ya know, you can still be cap stable and fit all the rigor rigs you want right? all depends on how much you're willing to pay to get it done. for instance, a dual gistii a-type small booster tank can tank all mission rooms. and remember this, a 400dps sustained tank can get it done for all L4 missions. so above that is just pure overkill. Smash the Supplier. The Assault. Worlds Collide. I think there's one more faction mission that would melt a ship with such a pitiful tank. Unless you're using a fast ship too, 400 dps tank is not even close to enough for all missions. You'd have to warp out and recharge your shields // cap quite a few times, and missions like worlds collide could very easily destroy your ship. I use a 300DPS tank to do these.
Bumpage	Posted - 2011.01.21 12:44:00 - [26] Edited by: Bumpage on 21/01/2011 12:45:18 300tank 1200dps? lol pretty much out of my range of dps ships :) If i assume correctly you'l be in something stupid like a pirate gunship? (My guns skills are dire :P) If u arnt in a 1000+ dps ship with such a low tank i'd be supprised so i could be wrong i guess =D
General Trajan Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.21 13:17:00 - [27] Edited by: General Trajan on 21/01/2011 13:17:49 Originally by: Bumpage Edited by: Bumpage on 21/01/2011 12:45:18 300tank 1200dps? lol pretty much out of my range of dps ships :) If i assume correctly you'l be in something stupid like a pirate gunship? (My guns skills are dire :P) If u arnt in a 1000+ dps ship with such a low tank i'd be supprised so i could be wrong i guess =D you speak as if you are doing full room aggros. i hope that's not the case unless you're in a afk domi or rattler and such. keep in mind 400dps "sustained" tank. and that's not including "reinforced" if that what you're getting at. and here is an example of a dual small booster setup: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/34940-Raven-Navy-Issue-caldari-dual-boost-pimpin.html i used to use it and it can complete angel extravaganza bonus room without warpouts. so that should tell ya something. and the dps you put out (especially for missile dps) it's the quality of the dps rather than the quantity of it. that's why you need rigor rigs and target painter(s). not just for BS and BCs, but also cruisers in particular. everything smaller can go to your drones.
Bumpage	Posted - 2011.01.21 13:21:00 - [28] My comment was to the guy saying 300tank and not much else... I didnt say anything about full rooms 400tanks etc etc?
Idicious Lightbane Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.01.21 13:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Bumpage My comment was to the guy saying 300tank and not much else... I didnt say anything about full rooms 400tanks etc etc? I used to do World Collide with a 300 DPS burst tank sentry domi that did around 900 DPS (2 sentry damage rigs) If you kill fast enough and manage your agro it works.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.21 13:35:00 - [30] Originally by: Idicious Lightbane Originally by: Bumpage My comment was to the guy saying 300tank and not much else... I didnt say anything about full rooms 400tanks etc etc? I used to do World Collide with a 300 DPS burst tank sentry domi that did around 900 DPS (2 sentry damage rigs) If you kill fast enough and manage your agro it works. I used to just buffer tank thoose missions... a dead rat needs no tanking. Tho, its been ages since I really did missions, to low income for my taste. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html

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