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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.26 12:06:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 26/01/2011 12:07:42
 Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: Durin Sarga
Caldari brings up a good point. Jita while not particularly important itself is a culmination of Caldari being Caldari. They are the entrepeneurs.
Why do some keep spouting this BS, it wrong the Caldari state is a Autarky, Planned/Command Economy, The Caldari state economy is closer to Facist economics or the Soviet Union.
It is actually the antithesis of a free trade/laissez-faire economics.
Not that I am saying you are wrong, but where in this page about the caldari do you get the idea that they are NOT entrepreneurs and have a "free market" system? Fierce capitalism, competition, etc. I see nothing in there about state controlled planned economics.
They do sound rather fascist in terms of how the STATE is run but not the economics/industry, and that is what I am questioning. Also the guy said that jita is a hub of industry because in the game caldari have an awful lot of industry available to them, which is true especially back in the days when blood lines dictated starting abilities, etc., and the number of manufacturing/research slots available is higher in caldari space than elsewhere from what I know .. I may be wrong, I'll go do a quick look.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.01.26 12:26:00 -
[32]
If Caldari corporations have police powers, as much of the literature suggests, then this would mean that the Caldari do not have a separation of economy and State.
It would be difficult to describe the Caldari as truly capitalistic if they lack an independent judiciary because individual citizens would be unable to protect their property or enforce their contracts. Add to that the Caldari collectivism and their refusal to integrate into the international trade system and they do indeed appear to be more traditionally fascist than capitalist.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.26 12:39:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: Durin Sarga
Caldari brings up a good point. Jita while not particularly important itself is a culmination of Caldari being Caldari. They are the entrepeneurs.
Why do some keep spouting this BS, it wrong the Caldari state is a Autarky, Planned/Command Economy, The Caldari state economy is closer to Facist economics or the Soviet Union.
It is actually the antithesis of a free trade/laissez-faire economics.
Not that I am saying you are wrong, but where in this page about the caldari do you get the idea that they are NOT entrepreneurs and have a "free market" system? Fierce capitalism, competition, etc. I see nothing in there about state controlled planned economics.
They do sound rather fascist in terms of how the STATE is run but not the economics/industry, and that is what I am questioning. Also the guy said that jita is a hub of industry because in the game caldari have an awful lot of industry available to them, which is true especially back in the days when blood lines dictated starting abilities, etc., and the number of manufacturing/research slots available is higher in caldari space than elsewhere from what I know .. I may be wrong, I'll go do a quick look.
Read some of the background Chronicle about the Caldari state in the Evelopedia or the Empyrean Age novel.
There is no separation of powers between the State and the Corporations.
Employees of the Mega-corporations are payed in company money (not ISK) to be spent in company shops and for company housing.
The vast majority of Caldari citizens are born into a company, educated by in company schools, and work for that company all their lives, they have no free labour movement.
The soviet union had a lot of industry, a command economy is not an obstacle to that.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.26 12:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: Durin Sarga
Caldari brings up a good point. Jita while not particularly important itself is a culmination of Caldari being Caldari. They are the entrepeneurs.
Why do some keep spouting this BS, it wrong the Caldari state is a Autarky, Planned/Command Economy, The Caldari state economy is closer to Facist economics or the Soviet Union.
It is actually the antithesis of a free trade/laissez-faire economics.
Not that I am saying you are wrong, but where in this page about the caldari do you get the idea that they are NOT entrepreneurs and have a "free market" system? Fierce capitalism, competition, etc. I see nothing in there about state controlled planned economics.
They do sound rather fascist in terms of how the STATE is run but not the economics/industry, and that is what I am questioning. Also the guy said that jita is a hub of industry because in the game caldari have an awful lot of industry available to them, which is true especially back in the days when blood lines dictated starting abilities, etc., and the number of manufacturing/research slots available is higher in caldari space than elsewhere from what I know .. I may be wrong, I'll go do a quick look.
Read some of the background Chronicle about the Caldari state in the Evelopedia or the Empyrean Age novel.
There is no separation of powers between the State and the Corporations.
Employees of the Mega-corporations are payed in company money (not ISK) to be spent in company shops and for company housing.
The vast majority of Caldari citizens are born into a company, educated by in company schools, and work for that company all their lives, they have no free labour movement.
The soviet union had a lot of industry, a command economy is not an obstacle to that.
That's really interesting .. so to add to their list of Soviet Union charges is one of propaganda too? Kinda funny, thanks for link. I always thought Caldari were corp run and therefore not a 'free' state (but who really is anyway) but I had not realised the extent of their 'socialist' traits.
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Berikath
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sun Ying
i think jita should install a massive teleporter linked to one station in each faction, basically making jita available in 4 spots in the universe !
Better idea- give every player a "hearthstone" which can teleport them to Jita to buy stuff, then back to wherever they were afterwards with an hour cooldown!
[ /sarcasm]
*** [ SIG] ***
Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing
*Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories
*Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle!
[ /sig ] |
Durin Sarga
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:39:00 -
[36]
I apologize Wyke for using an incorrect term and derailing the thread into EVE politics. By entrepenuers I meant to say their faction is the industry based faction.
While other factions in EVE do have industry areas, they are not nearly as industry geared overall as Caldari space is.
My bad.
Durin
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Arkon Mar
Caldari
Tau Draconus Corp
Interstellar Commerce Commission
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Posted - 2011.01.26 20:59:00 -
[37]
Really? I just dont trade in Jita. I attack the markets in other systems and I find the price between the bottom line of the market bots and the highest buy order and i ride that price right into profitability.
In my humble opinion, I must say that anyone that swears by Jita is missing the whole point of the game.
I got rich by NOT trading in Jita.
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lord xavier
K-Tech Research
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Cleansing Spite
You can make more money in Jita. That's actually kind of the point. If you're a savvy trader, shipping well-priced goods out of trade hubs to less efficient markets is likely to drastically increase your risk per trade. Increased risk will yield increased rewards - the key is in having enough capital to tolerate those risks.
The market hub exists because of the suicide bombers, scammers, and gankers that haunt the rest of the 'verse. Jita is safe, accessible, and well-traveled. Consequently, you have limited risk in terms of:
Quote:
1.) Getting ganked (though suicide gankers are beginning to present unique challenges to hubs)
Ways around that. As every trader knows.
Quote:
2.) Not being able to find couriers
Never had this problem. I use them often across alts.
Quote:
3.) Experiencing low liquidity
Never had that problem on eve. Normally just after a night of drinking.
Quote:
4.) Mis-pricing your assets
Well, make sure it is the right price before you post it.  Even drunk while ****ing off during PVP I have never had that problem.
Quote:
Jita also has unique benefits:
1.) Endless supply of everything that can go inside of high sec stations, with the exception of some officer mods.
2.) Highest overall traffic out of all other market hubs.
3.) Constant challenges of 0.01 isk traders.
4.) Almost the center of the eve-universe  Cobalt Edge and Omist have the farthest to go.
Fixed some stuff.
Quote:
That's why it's desirable. I'm not sure you can shift trade to another area until these fundamental problems are resolved.
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Biomass is free (of) Eve4life! |
Lodra
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Posted - 2011.01.27 01:06:00 -
[39]
Want to move all the activity out of Jita?
Make that the center of a Sansha Incursion. Having the whole constellation gatecamped by super rats would go a long way towards moving traders out to other areas.
Even better, park the incursion there for a month, instead of the current week.
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Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.01.27 21:55:00 -
[40]
A single, centralized shopping center is a good thing. Its good for both sellers and buyers and for overall logistics. You need a critical mass of both buyers and sellers to guarantee turnover of the producers product and to guarantee a reasonably stable pricing structure for buyers.
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.01.27 22:12:00 -
[41]
Originally by: NoScream
You can not move the Jita Trade hub, The 0rphanage own Jita 4-4 end of story,
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Taedrin
Gallente
The Green Cross
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.28 06:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 26/01/2011 13:26:24
Originally by: Durin Sarga
Jita while not particularly important itself is a culmination of Caldari being Caldari. They are the entrepeneurs.
Why do some keep spouting this BS, it wrong the Caldari state is a Autarky, Planned/Command Economy, The Caldari state economy is closer to Facist economics or the Soviet Union.
It is actually the antithesis of a free trade/laissez-faire economics.
Uhhhhhh... the Caldari are HARDLY facist. IIRC, the Caldari State is essentially a Corporatocracy. There are virtually NO regulations on corporations, the government is run by a board of corporations, "rights" are mostly given to corporations and not individuals, etc etc...
So it is the exact opposite of fascism or communism: instead of the State controlling and owning the corporations, the corporations control and own the State. Thus the laws that are passed are ones that favor the corporations in the State. All of this is further placed behind a facade of a democracy.
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Originally by: Dr Fighter
"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Nick Nailer
Amarr
Localhost.LL.c..
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Posted - 2011.01.28 12:40:00 -
[43]
move jita, trade is now a binary system between jita/perimeter. no need to discuss' unless u are still to blind to see it happening . set-up your contracts/trade plans acordingly, sorry jita station humper squads.. it was in-evitable
Troll the trolls, 2011. Join the fun
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.28 13:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mara Villoso
A single, centralized shopping center is a good thing. Its good for both sellers and buyers and for overall logistics. You need a critical mass of both buyers and sellers to guarantee turnover of the producers product and to guarantee a reasonably stable pricing structure for buyers.
It's good for some players, that' doesn't necessarily make it good for Eve overall. If you go back to the time that Yulia was struck down by the closoure of the highways the considered opinion of the big traders was that a single trade hub was a bad thing.
Everybody thought Yulia would get replaced by four trade hubs and for a while that is what we had, but over time Jita emerged and a sense of fatalism took over, to be replaced with the current mind set that Jita is necessary, Jita is essential, Jita is good, etc.
It would actually be much more consistent with the back story to have 4 major pretty balanced trade hubs, one in the space of each faction for the loyalists.
However it's never going to happen that way because a single centralised trade hub serves the politics of Eve by pandering to the ever powerfully null-sec lobby, who don't care for the back story, have no faction loyalty, and cannot see the big picture outside their little null-sec kingdoms of ISK production for RMT. What they fail to see is that those newbie carebears they hate so much are the ones buying their ISK. Frankly as long as the CSM is dominated by the null-sec alliances Eve is going to continue to die a little each day.
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Fractal Muse
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Posted - 2011.01.28 14:18:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
However it's never going to happen that way because a single centralised trade hub serves the politics of Eve by pandering to the ever powerfully null-sec lobby, who don't care for the back story, have no faction loyalty, and cannot see the big picture outside their little null-sec kingdoms of ISK production for RMT. What they fail to see is that those newbie carebears they hate so much are the ones buying their ISK. Frankly as long as the CSM is dominated by the null-sec alliances Eve is going to continue to die a little each day.
So it's the special interest groups of EVE that caused Jita to become Jita and maintain it?
Darn those special interest groups! They are everywhere!
To those who want to 'siege' Jita - good luck. I'll log in just to see how you are all doing. I'll be impressed if you cause any kind of disruption in Jita.
I don't see any validity in trying to move the market in Jita a grand total of one jump over to perimeter but if that's your goal... good luck to you.
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Mara Villoso
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Posted - 2011.01.28 20:44:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Everybody thought Yulia would get replaced by four trade hubs and for a while that is what we had, but over time Jita emerged and a sense of fatalism took over, to be replaced with the current mind set that Jita is necessary, Jita is essential, Jita is good, etc.
You're sort of proving my point. It became a single hub because when business is spread out over 4 hubs it becomes difficult to buy building materials in the necessary volume and it becomes difficult to sell massive supplies of produced goods in a quick and efficient manner. It doesn't help that players can't "see" into another region to gauge price fluctuations, nor does it help that maintaining buy/sell orders becomes a gigantic pain in the ass. Jita exists because no one wants to fly all over the freaking universe to get the items necessary to fulfill their needs. Large scale industrial operations would be next to impossible to maintain if Jita didn't exist.
ps--I'm sorry but your alliance statement is just silly. |
Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.28 22:53:00 -
[47]
You leave my Jita alone!
Moving trade out of Jita would mean splitting up the market further, not something I want to do as a trader, to have to check even more hubs...
Why would you want to move trade out of Jita, besides the pvp disruption it would cause?
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Nick Nailer
Amarr
Localhost.LL.c..
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Posted - 2011.01.29 00:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Cergorach
You leave my Jita alone!
Moving trade out of Jita would mean splitting up the market further, not something I want to do as a trader, to have to check even more hubs...
Why would you want to move trade out of Jita, besides the pvp disruption it would cause?
lol You my friend are just lazy, space is big, enjoy it.
Originally by: NoScream from The Orphanage
You can move the Jita Trade hub, Localhost.LL.c.. own Jita 4-4 end of story. We suggest moving to Perimeter and Amarr.
Application to move 4-4
Accepted with glee
fixed that for you
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Damia Estemaire
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Posted - 2011.01.30 10:46:00 -
[49]
imho CCP should just un-nerf Yulai and the market will move itself in time.
why did they nerf the Yulai gate routes in the first place? did someone really have the ******ed expectation it would decentralize the markets? Yulai as the HQ of CONCORD and a system in the center of EVE cluster makes a lot more sense to be the primary hub than some random system in Caldari space (where half people can't access it due to bad standings anyway and have to make alts) that just happened to have lots of agents, lots of asteroid belts, 2 macro-filled ice belts, ALL of which got nerfed anyway (along with all other hubs EXCEPT for Amarr's asteroid belts for SOME reason)
CCP, it's time to learn that people will NEVER do something just because you intend them to.
</emorage>
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Jay Nyles
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Posted - 2011.01.30 12:04:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 26/01/2011 13:26:24
Originally by: Durin Sarga
Jita while not particularly important itself is a culmination of Caldari being Caldari. They are the entrepeneurs.
Why do some keep spouting this BS, it wrong the Caldari state is a Autarky, Planned/Command Economy, The Caldari state economy is closer to Facist economics or the Soviet Union.
It is actually the antithesis of a free trade/laissez-faire economics.
Did you listen to the opening description for the Caldari State? They are definitely fascists but fascists can be hyper capitalist as well. Most often they are, they simply limit things that are bad for the state like unions and strikes. They are nothing like the soviet union.
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