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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Svandis Illuvatar
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Posted - 2011.01.23 01:12:00 -
[31]
I was also looking forward to activating this optional feature. Most importantly, at least from the dev blog, because of the focus on customizability of the new UI. So, if the release of the updated-UI beta hs been canned, I hope this does not mean CCP is abandoning the push for an updated (and highly customizable) UI
Also, for the love of Jesus, please, with the beginning of the incarna roll-outs, lets see a POS redesign with a modular setup (flogs horse)
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James Giovanni
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Posted - 2011.01.23 01:22:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Daedalus II
What was wrong with the new neocomm? I haven't tried it myself but from the dev blog it looked pretty sweet.
here I'll explain it to you in simple terms.
Some people, many of which I guess work at ccp, do not want eve to become a game of icons. They want eve to be a game of text.
apparently spreadsheets online is the better UI design. Because everyone that like the new UI didn't stand up while it on SiSi, the people that want eve to be a spreadsheet forever won.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.01.23 01:26:00 -
[33]
Originally by: James Giovanni
Originally by: Daedalus II
What was wrong with the new neocomm? I haven't tried it myself but from the dev blog it looked pretty sweet.
here I'll explain it to you in simple terms.
Some people, many of which I guess work at ccp, do not want eve to become a game of icons. They want eve to be a game of text.
apparently spreadsheets online is the better UI design. Because everyone that like the new UI didn't stand up while it on SiSi, the people that want eve to be a spreadsheet forever won.
More likely the resources were needed on some management pet project and something needed to be cut. The new beta neocom already served its PR purpose and could be buried without much noise.
...
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2011.01.23 11:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: mkmin
As for the new neocom, it represented a direction 100% of players would eventually be forced to go after beta. Switching from Text to Icons (even if those icons have hover-over text) is awful and the whole concept deserves to die a violent bloody death. It reduces usability. Ctrl-tab usability was broken in a previous expansion with the same UI design concept and needs to be reverted to be primarily text.
You do realize that the human mind is much better at locating visuals than text right? If you have 15 small tabs with text in them, compared to 15 small tabs with icons in them (and you have learned how the icons look), in which case do you think you'll find the tab you're looking for fastest?
In the text case you have to actually look at each tab in order, read it, and see if it was right. In the icon text your mind knows that for example the icon has a lot of red in it, so the eyes are automatically drawn to icons with lots of red in it, and immediately we have a smaller selection to look through for the next identifying feature.
Of course this requires A) some learning B) that all icons are different, but this just can't be a problem, you have to learn in EVE all the time, and making different icons is a non-problem for CCP.
Stop being so damn afraid of change that will actually help you. |
Iraherag
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Posted - 2011.01.23 12:27:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Iraherag on 23/01/2011 12:35:43
Edited by: Iraherag on 23/01/2011 12:33:00
Originally by: Daedalus II
Originally by: mkmin
As for the new neocom, it represented a direction 100% of players would eventually be forced to go after beta. Switching from Text to Icons (even if those icons have hover-over text) is awful and the whole concept deserves to die a violent bloody death. It reduces usability. Ctrl-tab usability was broken in a previous expansion with the same UI design concept and needs to be reverted to be primarily text.
You do realize that the human mind is much better at locating visuals than text right? If you have 15 small tabs with text in them, compared to 15 small tabs with icons in them (and you have learned how the icons look), in which case do you think you'll find the tab you're looking for fastest?
In the text case you have to actually look at each tab in order, read it, and see if it was right. In the icon text your mind knows that for example the icon has a lot of red in it, so the eyes are automatically drawn to icons with lots of red in it, and immediately we have a smaller selection to look through for the next identifying feature.
Of course this requires A) some learning B) that all icons are different, but this just can't be a problem, you have to learn in EVE all the time, and making different icons is a non-problem for CCP.
Stop being so damn afraid of change that will actually help you.
Big news for you.
Reading is so embedded into our culture, education and daily life and - apparently - so close to what our brain was developed for that reading (and comprehending) happens effortless, instantaneous and automatic unless the text is very unfamiliar, complicated or mutilated.
Actually it's so automatic that you cannot "not read" something.
That's why it is very difficult to say the actual color of the words in this picture instead of the color that is written as word.
*EDIT*
Which is used to demonstrate that the resolution of the word is just as fast as the resolution of the color. Because otherwise it could not interfere with it...
*ANOTHER EDIT*
The other point is that you wouldn't have 15 clearly distinguishable icons, not at 32x32 or any other technical viable size and certainly not when you have 15 tabs of the same type... |
Daedalus II
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Posted - 2011.01.23 13:44:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Iraherag
Big news for you.
Reading is so embedded into our culture, education and daily life and - apparently - so close to what our brain was developed for that reading (and comprehending) happens effortless, instantaneous and automatic unless the text is very unfamiliar, complicated or mutilated.
Actually it's so automatic that you cannot "not read" something.
That's why it is very difficult to say the actual color of the words in this picture instead of the color that is written as word.
*EDIT*
Which is used to demonstrate that the resolution of the word is just as fast as the resolution of the color. Because otherwise it could not interfere with it...
*ANOTHER EDIT*
The other point is that you wouldn't have 15 clearly distinguishable icons, not at 32x32 or any other technical viable size and certainly not when you have 15 tabs of the same type...
Yeah so you always have the current neocom maximized right? So you can read what each button does instead of looking at its icon? Because that's a lot faster?
And when you have your 15 tabs of text at the bottom, and you want to get to your wallet, you search through the tabs instead of clicking on the icon with currency on the left? I know at least I extremely rarely brings up a tab from the bottom, I only shrink windows to keep their cache, if I want them again I will click the neocom icon. And that indicates that something doesn't work here.
Also the tabs has very useful descriptions such as I [134] (the inventory) or G [35] (my current cargo hold). How am I supposed to know that at a glance? |
Cailais
Amarr
Ukomi Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.23 13:50:00 -
[37]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
The new NeoCom will not be activated. Based on player feedback and internal review then we decided that this Experimental Feature would be pulled.
WHAT?! A handful of whiners? HTFU CCP.
Originally by: CCP Explorer
The new Contract UI has not been activated yet.
The new forums will be released soon.
This 'soon' stuff got boring about 3 years ago.
C.
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Alexia Diana
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Posted - 2011.01.23 14:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
The new NeoCom will not be activated. Based on player feedback and internal review then we decided that this Experimental Feature would be pulled.
Convenient half-truth could be taken as a lie. Anyway, you delayed the expansion to have enough time to finish it, but that doesn't seem the case... |
R'dier
Erasers inc.
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.23 14:08:00 -
[39]
The new neocom was lazy design and it failed to make Eve feel anymore futuristic than the current one, while also failing to be any better to actually use.
Canning it was absolutely right decision, and kudos to CCP for that. |
Iraherag
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Posted - 2011.01.23 14:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Daedalus II
Originally by: Iraherag
Big news for you.
Reading is so embedded into our culture, education and daily life and - apparently - so close to what our brain was developed for that reading (and comprehending) happens effortless, instantaneous and automatic unless the text is very unfamiliar, complicated or mutilated.
Actually it's so automatic that you cannot "not read" something.
That's why it is very difficult to say the actual color of the words in this picture instead of the color that is written as word.
*EDIT*
Which is used to demonstrate that the resolution of the word is just as fast as the resolution of the color. Because otherwise it could not interfere with it...
*ANOTHER EDIT*
The other point is that you wouldn't have 15 clearly distinguishable icons, not at 32x32 or any other technical viable size and certainly not when you have 15 tabs of the same type...
Yeah so you always have the current neocom maximized right? So you can read what each button does instead of looking at its icon? Because that's a lot faster?
And when you have your 15 tabs of text at the bottom, and you want to get to your wallet, you search through the tabs instead of clicking on the icon with currency on the left? I know at least I extremely rarely brings up a tab from the bottom, I only shrink windows to keep their cache, if I want them again I will click the neocom icon. And that indicates that something doesn't work here.
Also the tabs has very useful descriptions such as I [134] (the inventory) or G [35] (my current cargo hold). How am I supposed to know that at a glance?
I see reading is not your forte... *sigh*
No, it's not necessarily faster (I think I didn't say so at least).
But reading is not as evil as people always try to make it sound (try it some time, it's actually nice).
I don't search through 15 tabs because I rarely have the need to have 15 tabs open at the same time.
Maybe I don't divide my attention between as many things as other people do, maybe I just tend to finish one thing and then do the next instead of doing 15 things at the same time - I just don't know and I have no intentions to find it out for you.
Actually some of the icons on the current neocom appear rather similar to me. Eg fitting, market and science & industry are merely blue- / gray-ish blobs. You may decypher what they depict when you know what it is, but that's hardly a lot of help IMO (try asking someone who doesn't know EVE what he sees on those 3 icons...) Their position is actually more helpful than their looks, but that would work with text too.
If you have trouble differentiating between 'G' and 'I' I might suggest some improvements to your graphics- / monitor-setup (unfortunately fonts cannot be changed). Maybe glasses are an option too... |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2011.01.23 14:36:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
The new NeoCom will not be activated. Based on player feedback and internal review then we decided that this Experimental Feature would be pulled.
Temporarily or Permanently?
If temporarily, good. It needed some tweaking.
If permanently, screw you CCP. I've been begging for a Horizontal capable neocom for years. And that neocom was ridiculously sexy in both look and function. |
Mace X5
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Posted - 2011.01.23 14:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Blane Xero
If permanently, screw you CCP. I've been begging for a Horizontal capable neocom for years. And that neocom was ridiculously sexy in both look and function.
This!
The game should move forward. The idea of optional live testing on TQ was a very good idea, much better than to rely on the few people who get on sisi to actually test stuff.
Sure it needed more options and whatnot, however there would have been way more feedback on the new neocom than some sisi testing will give you, CCP.
BTW I'm slowly getting sick of people with this in the past everything was better attitude. Guess what? It wasn't better in the past at all! |
Ovella
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Posted - 2011.01.23 15:15:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Mace X5
The game should move forward. The idea of optional live testing on TQ was a very good idea, much better than to rely on the few people who get on sisi to actually test stuff.
Riiight, because more borken code on TQ is surely a way to move forward  |
Mace X5
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Posted - 2011.01.23 15:22:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ovella
Riiight, because more borken code on TQ is surely a way to move forward
And that's why it was to be released as an optional beta to be enabled through the esc menue.
So you wouldn't have to use it while it was still borked, you know?
Update dat UI already! |
ivar R'dhak
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Posted - 2011.01.23 15:24:00 -
[45]
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 23/01/2011 15:25:42
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Incarna will be deployed over a period of time and possibly even over multiple cycles. And after that we will start to release expansions to EVE that include enhancements both to the "Flying in Space" part of EVE and the Incarna part of EVE.
INTERESTING!
Am I reading too much into your words, or does that mean that the "Flying in Space" part of EVE will be on a total back-burner for the whole year(possibly next too)? 
Hopefully NOT!
Keeping an eye on the whole PI situation and 0.0 "Capitals Online" problem just has to be still looked after. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
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Posted - 2011.01.23 16:12:00 -
[46]
Thank god CCP are taking their time to get this stuff right before release instead of telling everyone they are taking their time to make sure it is right, setting a release date and then finding out they need even more time to get it right.
This could be the longest deployment ever. |
Mace X5
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Posted - 2011.01.23 16:16:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Mace X5 on 23/01/2011 16:17:05
Support the neocom!
That link is ofc only for those who aren't logged in at present or who have signatures disabled. |
Selinate
Amarr
Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.23 16:25:00 -
[48]
After looking at the new neocom, I don't get what's so good about it... looks like the same thing, except on the bottom to me... |
Mace X5
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Posted - 2011.01.23 16:28:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Selinate
After looking at the new neocom, I don't get what's so good about it... looks like the same thing, except on the bottom to me...
Not only is the design cooler, you also could throw out stuff you never use, put stuff on it that you use and on top of that put the symbols in any order you wanted.
If that isn't vastly superior to what we have now I don't know what it is. |
Selinate
Amarr
Red Water Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.23 16:32:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mace X5
Not only is the design cooler, you also could throw out stuff you never use, put stuff on it that you use and on top of that put the symbols in any order you wanted.
If that isn't vastly superior to what we have now I don't know what it is.
I dunno, doesn't sound vastly superior to me... |
Alex Cortex
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.01.23 19:25:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Mace X5
Not only is the design cooler, you also could throw out stuff you never use, put stuff on it that you use and on top of that put the symbols in any order you wanted.
If that isn't vastly superior to what we have now I don't know what it is.
I dunno, doesn't sound vastly superior to me...
Erm, what? How is being able to customize the UI not vastly superior? The way it is now, you're stuck with icons where they are and minimized windows get stuck to the bottom of the screen. With the beta neocom, you could remove icons you never used and minimize opened windows to it ala most modern OS docks.
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Eugene Spencer
Rodents of Unusual Size
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Posted - 2011.01.23 20:14:00 -
[52]
WTH?! Why was that feature cancelled? I love the new Neocom. Surely if people were moaning about it not being vertical, we could have the option to have it vertical?
In fact, even the devblog says:
Quote:
"We already have plenty of ideas for iterations beyond the BETA, such as allowing alignment to any side of the screen..."
Even if it is to be canned, it would have been nice to be told about it.
I usually don't moan - at all - but this is a pretty poor show IMO!
=====
I have a specific comb for my beard. |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2011.02.03 22:58:00 -
[53]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Incarna will be deployed over a period of time and possibly even over multiple cycles. And after that we will start to release expansions to EVE that include enhancements both to the "Flying in Space" part of EVE and the Incarna part of EVE.
INTERESTING!
Am I reading too much into your words, or does that mean that the "Flying in Space" part of EVE will be on a total back-burner for the whole year(possibly next too)?
You are reading way too much into my words and finding stuff that isn't there. We currently have teams working on Incarna and teams working on "Flying in Space". Once Incarna has been deployed (possibly over multiple releases) then future expansions will contain enhancements to both parts of EVE.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson
Software Director
EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Everinsearch
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Posted - 2011.02.03 23:11:00 -
[54]
\o/ BEST. THREAD. EVER.
I'll continue to pay.
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Der Valkirie
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Posted - 2011.02.03 23:38:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Der Valkirie on 03/02/2011 23:44:37
Edited by: Der Valkirie on 03/02/2011 23:42:59
Edited by: Der Valkirie on 03/02/2011 23:39:26
Come on folks, everyone knows that the development priority for CCP is going into "DUST 514 aka CCP Halo" and that they are basically using EVE finance it. Seems there is more profit FP homicide. Before you whine I spent years playing games like DOOM/Halo etc. I do have a question though, did the new UI not actually work or was it deemed to much work to support and therefore would deprive DUST of resources.
Sorry for the whining it just seems that very little truly useful to a mission runner like me is in these so-called "releases/upgrades".
P.S. Where might we find this "negative feedback" ?
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PTang
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Posted - 2011.02.04 02:45:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Der Valkirie
Edited by: Der Valkirie on 03/02/2011 23:44:37
Edited by: Der Valkirie on 03/02/2011 23:42:59
Edited by: Der Valkirie on 03/02/2011 23:39:26
Come on folks, everyone knows that the development priority for CCP is going into "DUST 514 aka CCP Halo" and that they are basically using EVE finance it. Seems there is more profit FP homicide. Before you whine I spent years playing games like DOOM/Halo etc. I do have a question though, did the new UI not actually work or was it deemed to much work to support and therefore would deprive DUST of resources.
Sorry for the whining it just seems that very little truly useful to a mission runner like me is in these so-called "releases/upgrades".
P.S. Where might we find this "negative feedback" ?
that's the thing most players can't find the negative feedback ccp is talking about
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.02.04 04:11:00 -
[57]
Please tell me that the new NeoCom was just delayed and not canceled. It needed further tweaking for sure, but it was overall a good idea and significantly better than what we have now. The current interface looks like something straight out of Windows 3.1.
Don't let a couple of whiners who are afraid of change ruin any chance of improvement. The UI needs to be redone and the NeoNeoCom was a very nice first step.
-----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Der Valkirie
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Posted - 2011.02.04 04:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Please tell me that the new NeoCom was just delayed and not canceled. It needed further tweaking for sure, but it was overall a good idea and significantly better than what we have now. The current interface looks like something straight out of Windows 3.1.
Don't let a couple of whiners who are afraid of change ruin any chance of improvement. The UI needs to be redone and the NeoNeoCom was a very nice first step.
Kyra, Stop it you are reminding me of my age. You just made me think back to playing Braben/Bell's ELITE on a Acorn computer with 16K - yes 16000 bytes - of memory. Seems that the developers do not actually play the game, otherwise they would realize just how much a change to the UI expands the enjoyment. Hell even Microsoft knows the advantage of changing the user experience. What the hell in the last 17 months I have seen the lack of real innovation coming out of CCP, though not unexpected since as I understand it a lot of the real EVE developers/designers have moved on.
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jade ranger
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Posted - 2011.02.04 10:01:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: CCP Explorer
The new NeoCom will not be activated. Based on player feedback and internal review then we decided that this Experimental Feature would be pulled.
Temporarily or Permanently?
If temporarily, good. It needed some tweaking.
If permanently, screw you CCP. I've been begging for a Horizontal capable neocom for years. And that neocom was ridiculously sexy in both look and function.
they said it's forever, sorry
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Kidain
Gallente
Rule of Five
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Posted - 2011.02.04 11:25:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Kidain on 04/02/2011 11:25:54
What I find scary about this is the amount of power 1% of the idiots who said "Wahhha waaaah I am elite and love text" have over CCP? The vast percentage of players want you to develop your UI and fast.
It is the fundamental building block that is holding back your whole game. I have so many friends who have trialled, liked the game but hated the UI so much they gave up. Too slow, far far, too slow.
Also why not let the community "mod" it? I must admit there are many things I do not like about WOW but letting people come up with their own UI's was inspirational as I rarely use the standard Blizzard one (as again it's crap).
So why can't we let the rapscallions out there try their hand at it?
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In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion. - Douglas Adams |
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