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leavwiz
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Posted - 2011.01.25 16:16:00 -
[1]
I have no interest in pvp , nor do i enjoy getting ganked by PVP players while running a mission in low sec space. So i have to ask, why did lvl 5 missions in high sec get removed? Why do high sec lvl 4 agents keep offering me low sec missions? Does EVE have nothing to offer those of us that spent billions on ships, mods, and implants other than a never-ending cycle of lvl 4 missions that we can now do in under 30 mins (complete with salvaging thanks to the very cool noctis)?
What is the plan to keep PVE mission players interested in the game?
regards,
leavwiz
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Jokus Balim
Minmatar
Capital Destruction
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.25 16:18:00 -
[2]
Uhm, do you know that there is a new addon? Incursions? Which started like today? With stuff that people would call highsec PvE content?
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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.25 16:26:00 -
[3]
You can find good lvl4 agents whom are not sending you into lowsec. Just use an agent locator webpage. Also there is that new stuff called Incursion.
Btw, there are other possibilities like Epic Arcs, COSMOS missions, exploration (yeah, it's kind of cool even in hisec) and the like.
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Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.25 16:33:00 -
[4]
There are plenty of other games that give you opportunity for 100% PvE with no risk.
There is plenty more PvE in eve, you simply have to be willing to risk something for it. Level 5s were never intended for high sec (hence the lack of agents in high sec - agents sending missioners to high sec was an oversight and unintended).
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.25 16:50:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: leavwiz
So i have to ask, why did lvl 5 missions in high sec get removed?
Because they're meant for lowsec.
Quote:
Why do high sec lvl 4 agents keep offering me low sec missions?
Because that's within the realm of the rules that determine the mission locations.
Quote:
Does EVE have nothing to offer those of us that spent billions on ships, mods, and implants
Sure it does. L4s are not it, though. In fact, by the time you have that, you're probably meant to move to something a bit more demanding and risky than L4s.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
leavcraft
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Posted - 2011.01.25 17:28:00 -
[6]
thanks for all the responses. I would argue with the statement that lvl 5's were never intended for high sec , at one time there were high sec lvl 5 agents. Just doesnt seem to make sense that the pve mission path stops at lvl 4 , and that lvl 5 missions in high sec were removed. For some of us, that is how we play. No interest in PVP as a risk factor , just difficult ,complex missioning.
I will look into incursions more as someone suggested. (should add, I am sight impaired and play mostly by text to voice, so I am too slow in reaction times for PVP situations. As such the missions themselves are challenging enough)
regards,
leavwiz
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.25 17:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: leavcraft
I would argue with the statement that lvl 5's were never intended for high sec
Please do, and we'll post the dev blog where they were introduced and where they stated intention was for them to be in low-sec. It's just taken them a while to fix all the bugs that let them escape thatà 
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
leavcraft
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Posted - 2011.01.25 17:36:00 -
[8]
so what you are saying is that after letting us have them for almost a year, they finally fixed the "broken" situation? or the high sec agents that never gave low sec missions that now give them over half the time? sounds more like a push to move high sec players into low sec. I have to wonder what is behind that thinking.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.25 17:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: leavcraft
so what you are saying is that after letting us have them for almost a year, they finally fixed the "broken" situation?
That's relatively quick, by historical CCP standards.
ùùùùù
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object
When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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dorfsorc
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Posted - 2011.01.25 17:48:00 -
[10]
I have to agree with leavwiz on this one, the game provides tiered missions in high sec space and people purchase ships, mods, and implants to do them. There is no logical reason why they should stop at level 4 when the missions and the mechanics already exist for level 5 missions. Is there some reason there shouldnt be lvl 5's in high sec?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: dorfsorc
Is there some reason there shouldnt be lvl 5's in high sec?
To much reward for too little risk. And the tiered mission structure doesn't stop at L4s ù it's people's willingness to do them that stops there.
There is more to be had if you want to, but most people don't for various reasons (the risk factor probably being the biggest of them).
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
dorfsorc
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: dorfsorc
Is there some reason there shouldnt be lvl 5's in high sec?
To much reward for too little risk. And the tiered mission structure doesn't stop at L4s ù it's people's willingness to do them that stops there.
funny, I do them, obviously leavwiz does them, as do several of my friends and corpmates. If the rewards are disproportionate, then change that, dont remove the missions.
And is the risk factor so inadequate that only adding exposure to pvp what makes them work? I am not sure I understand your comments at all.
There is more to be had if you want to, but most people don't for various reasons (the risk factor probably being the biggest of them).
Again the risk factor. Are you saying there is no risk going up against 30 plus enemies that come in waves and use neutralizers? clearly this is a move to push more pvp and to push us into the incursion content. Otherwise, what other soloable PVE content is there to keep a well geared player interested?
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leavcraft
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:21:00 -
[13]
i just took a straw poll of a few players that i routinely encounter during my play times. All of us were taking minor risks to shuttle into low sec space for a random chance at a high sec mission from the agents there. Most of us fly one decent ship or buddy up to duo the level 5 missions and find them exhilirating. The lack of meaningful cash rewards is countered by the LP boosts. From forum accounts, I dont see any of us tackling the Incursion situations in our single golems and rattlesnakes. So all I get out of this is an immediate drop in content that was entertaining and sometimes rewarding. I would still like to know why the devs felt this was a good thing. and I would love for tippia to explain why mission risk should come from other players and not the mission.
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: leavcraft
i just took a straw poll of a few players that i routinely encounter during my play times. All of us were taking minor risks to shuttle into low sec space for a random chance at a high sec mission from the agents there. Most of us fly one decent ship or buddy up to duo the level 5 missions and find them exhilirating. The lack of meaningful cash rewards is countered by the LP boosts. From forum accounts, I dont see any of us tackling the Incursion situations in our single golems and rattlesnakes. So all I get out of this is an immediate drop in content that was entertaining and sometimes rewarding. I would still like to know why the devs felt this was a good thing. and I would love for tippia to explain why mission risk should come from other players and not the mission.
Because CCP don't want solo players. That's it. That's the way it goes. Could they allow it? Sure they could. Will they? Doesn't seem like it. They want YOU to be the content for other players. Essentially solo bears are made into bottomfeeders. Do you understand now?
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leavcraft
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:38:00 -
[15]
Because CCP don't want solo players. That's it. That's the way it goes. Could they allow it? Sure they could. Will they? Doesn't seem like it. They want YOU to be the content for other players. Essentially solo bears are made into bottomfeeders. Do you understand now?
gotcha. i guess they dont want my sub money either, or the production items i put into the market, or the datacores i gather. some of us just dont do well in group play but add to the overall game experience. Sorry that I was too stupid to see that my contribution was pointless unless i was gank fodder for someone.
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: leavcraft
Because CCP don't want solo players. That's it. That's the way it goes. Could they allow it? Sure they could. Will they? Doesn't seem like it. They want YOU to be the content for other players. Essentially solo bears are made into bottomfeeders. Do you understand now?
gotcha. i guess they dont want my sub money either, or the production items i put into the market, or the datacores i gather. some of us just dont do well in group play but add to the overall game experience. Sorry that I was too stupid to see that my contribution was pointless unless i was gank fodder for someone.
Unfortunately it's not Elite Online. Would be awesome if PVP wasn't forced. Actually, I think the game would attract even more ppl. But the game owners, obviously, have the right to set the rules themselves as they see fit.
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Rina Maas
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:45:00 -
[17]
M.M.O.G. Mass Multiple Online Game.
Not,
M.S.O.G. Mass Single Online Game.
Join a group - you may like it. Otherwise try scanning sites down.
Contrary to popular belief, if you mission in quiet low sec areas, you are quite safe if you simply pay attention and don't bring a pimp mobile with "gank me please" written in neon letters on the side.
There are also the cosmos areas... open your eyes to the numerous possibilities. But don't expect any sympathy for crying on the forums that YOU feel left out.
Make some friends.
Truth is harsh sometimes.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: dorfsorc
Again the risk factor. Are you saying there is no risk going up against 30 plus enemies that come in waves and use neutralizers?
Not really, no. You know what's coming; you know exactly what they'll do; you know exactly how to counter it. It's all predetermined. The old-style missions (from L1s up to L5s) offer no risk whatsoever beyond what you create for yourself.
àand if you want that kind of risk, you can pick any mission and make it risky by simply running it in a more fragile ship with smaller margins.
Quote:
Otherwise, what other soloable PVE content is there to keep a well geared player interested?
Aside from Incursions (which aren't really meant to be soloable)? Low-end W-space sites. Low-to-mid-end complexes. Epic arcs. COSMOS (although all of these suffer the same problems as the old missions, largely because they follow the same design).
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise
The Company LLC
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:49:00 -
[19]
Have you tried the faction Epic arcs? Most are more challenging than L4s, offer alternative ways to complete and some like Gallente and Caldari have substantial rewards yet can be finished solo also.
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Granth Roden
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Posted - 2011.01.25 18:57:00 -
[20]
He does have a point, though. It takes all kinds, and having guys missioning and producing helps us by placing stuff on the market. Also provides lols when they decide to venture into low and null, sometimes in shinies.
Besides, freedom and sandbox means having some options to play as you wish, and MMOs may include the loner - they are a fixture of the world, after all. You don't even have to pretend to roleplay, nor play with clothes and stuff on your character for effect.
So yeah, I would like to see more noob-friendliness and less carebear-baiting. Noobs should be nurtured till they're fat, and carebears who stop playing means less fun for everybody, less people to ninja...
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Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.25 19:25:00 -
[21]
Quote:
No interest in PVP as a risk factor , just difficult ,complex missionin
there is nothing difficult or complex about lvl 5 missions
warp in passive tank ship, get aggro, warp in DPS ship(s)
for sites without neuts, great warp in pimped ship to slowly complete
what a challenge 
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Sir Kid
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Posted - 2011.01.25 20:09:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sir Kid on 25/01/2011 20:10:05
OH! This is where they whinge.
Also, yeah, missioning is risk free if you know how to type "eve-survival.org" into your browser.
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Alexx Luther
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Posted - 2011.01.25 20:15:00 -
[23]
Originally by: leavcraft
thanks for all the responses. I would argue with the statement that lvl 5's were never intended for high sec , at one time there were high sec lvl 5 agents. Just doesnt seem to make sense that the pve mission path stops at lvl 4 , and that lvl 5 missions in high sec were removed. For some of us, that is how we play. No interest in PVP as a risk factor , just difficult ,complex missioning.
I will look into incursions more as someone suggested. (should add, I am sight impaired and play mostly by text to voice, so I am too slow in reaction times for PVP situations. As such the missions themselves are challenging enough)
regards,
leavwiz
Because there is no damn risk... NONE! The End
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leavcraft
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Posted - 2011.01.25 20:31:00 -
[24]
okay, its painfully clear that unless we choose to fight other players we are somehow wrong to be playing EVE. I am in a corp, we do have corp activities, and I do fleet up. I am just saying that even the "predictable" and well documented missions can be fun. Perhaps we should eliminate all levels of missions for the same reasons offered above, they are easy and riskfree. Or perhaps we should accept that some of us like to log on and check our production, and PI and run a mission for an hour or so without wondering if we will lose our ship and implants to some trigger happy jerk . Next time i am delivering a load of ammo to market in my charon, maybe i should fly through low sec just to be fair to the gamers out there that really get it and let them have their shot. Again, my point is the same, it made no sense to take away the level 5 missions, whether they were "easy" and risk free or not.
regards,
leavwiz
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.25 20:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: leavcraft
Again, my point is the same, it made no sense to take away the level 5 missions, whether they were "easy" and risk free or not.
And again, yes it made sense: they didn't "take away" L5s ù they fixed a series of bugs that made them appear in places where they shouldn't be.
If you want to run a sleeper site, you have to go to w-space. If one appears in Lonetrek, it's a bug.
If you want to run The Maze, you have to go to nullsec. If it appears in Jita, it's a bug.
If you want to run L5s, you have to go to lowsec. If they appear in Motsu, it's a bug.
Harder, more rewarding stuff exists in more dangerous space. If you want the goodies, you have to risk it. If you don't want to risk it, you don't get the goodies. It's as simple as that.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.25 20:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: leavcraft
Again, my point is the same, it made no sense to take away the level 5 missions, whether they were "easy" and risk free or not.
regards,
leavwiz
yes it did
Lvl 5s flood LP into the system. Minimizing the use of Lvl 5s helps the LP economy greatly my minimizing the flood of LP from those missions.
No one is attempting to force you to participate in pvp. Feel free to mission safely in high sec, explore, mine, do production of various types and whatever activity you enjoy.
But if you want the high end stuff, you need to be willing to risk something for it. Traditional NPCs do not pose risk to most people, especially not seasoned mission runners like yourself. By the sound of it you don't seem to care about income too much. How about fitting up an assault frigate and tackling some lvl 4s? Maybe a gank interceptor for some lower level missions?
TBH you sound like another paranoid high sec dweller that has never set foot in low sec and is upset that his money tree was taken away. Its really not that bad. If you were really smart and really wanted to do lvl 5 missions in low sec, you could find a way to do it pretty safely.
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leavcraft
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Posted - 2011.01.25 21:06:00 -
[27]
i can see that my first day of posting to a forum has not gone well. but the last poster was correct. Money isnt an issue. its about having fun. for the playstyle I , and others like me, represent, there comes a time when running endless lvl 4 missions is no longer fun. The level 5 missions were fun, and yes, even dangerous. I have lost ships in them. I choose not to go places because playing by TTV is too slow to react to player contact and EVE really is not to blame for that, its just a fact of how long it takes the voice program to read the incoming files. By the time i hear that i have been targetted and web scrambled , it is too late to do anything about it. So I admit my comfort level is with learning and defeating the well mapped encounters. Its sad though that a blind player can equip a ship and do PVE missions in under 30 minutes, so i am wondering how others with full vision feel about it.
I am really tired of hearing about how lvl 5's that ended up in high sec are a mistake because they followed the mission assignment rules (jumps and population ) but the low sec missions assigned by high sec agents arent a mistake, they are working as intended. Doesnt anyone see an oxymoron here?
Its bad enough that i have to put up with can flippers and salvage thieves in high sec, but thats the price of playing. If i do take a shot at these ninjas, then suddenly I am fair game for them and all their buddies.
Must be nice that people can live off the efforts of others and suffer no penalty. EVE doesnt even consider salvage theft to be an offense.
If i didnt enjoy the relaxing aspect of production and buy/sell I would find it hard to maintain my accounts from the missioning aspect.
I guess I will move on now, you all have made your point that unless we want to subject ourselves to PVP rules we dont deserve mission rewards or LP for our efforts (we sure dont get LP for production or research) Thanks all
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.25 21:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: leavcraft
I am really tired of hearing about how lvl 5's that ended up in high sec are a mistake because they followed the mission assignment rules (jumps and population ) but the low sec missions assigned by high sec agents arent a mistake, they are working as intended. Doesnt anyone see an oxymoron here?
There is no oxymoron.
There is nothing that limits L4s to highsec only ù they can appear everywhere. If they appear in lowsec (which is a part of "everywhere"), it is working as intended.
However, there is something that limits L5s to lowsec (and nullsec, I suppose, should your agent be in the right place). If they appear in highsec (which is not a part of low/nullsec), it is not working as intended. The "something" that is supposed to limit them to .4 and blow has just been broken for a long time. Now it has (possibly) been fixed (again).
And as mentioned, if you want excitement in your L4s, try running them in assault frigates.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2011.01.25 22:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: dorfsorc
Again the risk factor. Are you saying there is no risk going up against 30 plus enemies that come in waves and use neutralizers?
If you can set up and fly your ship with marginal competence, then yes, there is absolutely zero risk in high-sec missioning. There comes a time for EVERY mission runner where he can defeat every single mission in his sleep. Maybe you're not there yet but thousands of others are. You can eat very well on LV 4's indefinitely. For more reward, you need to risk more. Otherwise everyone would be doing them and the economy would collapse.
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Aunty Nora
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Posted - 2011.01.25 22:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: leavwiz
I have no interest in pvp
Why play a pvp game then ?
if your not willing to join in pvp, use the market or sell your stuff, why even bother playing ?
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