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PI and commitment to excellence

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tpwh21	Posted - 2011.01.26 12:42:00 - [1] Leaving aside the patch changes to PI, the numerous bugs, and the generalized whining. Can anyone answer this question: Would you play PI if it was a stand alone game? Is it excellent? When it was announced i imagined an eve flavored command and conquer..... Is there any gameplay, any real, interest any development? Does it compare to any god game? RTS game? Why have we allowed CCP to dictate the terms of the discussion on this? PI is a horribly thought out, very boring mini game inside eve. This patch does not alter that at all. I can't see a way with the current design that they can "iterate" it into anything less boring or tedious. I certainly don't think that they have lived up to their promise to put energy and attention into iterating it (iteration means in this case to incrementally improve.) I would suggest a really serious rethink - and possible complete redesign - anyone else agree?
RaTTuS BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2011.01.26 12:52:00 - [2] and another thread was needed because -- Join BIG
Zelda Wei	Posted - 2011.01.26 13:17:00 - [3] Originally by: RaTTuS and another thread was needed because Because some people like talking about this crap...
Greg Huff	Posted - 2011.01.26 13:51:00 - [4] Originally by: RaTTuS and another thread was needed because Because you can't know if the horse is really dead unless you keep beating on it.
Kuvaki Care Factor	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:25:00 - [5] my opinion is that PI is a distraction from mining/missioning that gives easy extra income so people arent so hardpressed to afford that plx and still have nice things, its simple, and extra income in my opinion PI is perfect, eve already has a million difrent things to do, this is just an easyer way to make isk while you have fun. (not sure is something of this sort was already posted in 1 of these 2 billion posts on PI but thats my ideas on it) Individualy reliable, Collectivly diciplned
Tsabrock Gallente Circle of Friends	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:22:00 - [6] Contrary to other posts, I do understand what you're saying, as it's a question I've asked myself since PI's conception, and asked again recently with Incursion. The simple answer is, "No". If PI was it's own independent game, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. When PI was originally conceived and hyped, we were promised a type of a mini SimCity that could stand alone as it's own game. In fact I even thought that if PI was developed sufficiently enough, it could function as a stand-alone game to draw non-subscribers into the EVE universe. I also have similar ideas for Incarna, with how it could serve as a free, stand-alone introduction for non-EVE players to possibly draw them into the EVE Universe, but admittedly, my faith in CCP is a bit low at the moment. --- If you've read something I posted and want to contact me, EVE-Mail me, or contact me via EVE Gate.
Tinu Moorhsum	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:44:00 - [7] Meh. There are several different ways to grind isk in eve and all of them are a means to an end and therefore to some degree or another, uninteresting and tedious. I think it's good enough considering that isk grinding is a necessary evil. The nice thing about eve is that you have options. If you don't like farming planets, then go do something else. Nobody will judge you poorly for it.
tpwh21	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:15:00 - [8] Edited by: tpwh21 on 26/01/2011 17:15:42 Yeah civilization I/ Populus I / command and Conquer it isn't. promises of improvement do not a decent mini-game make. The whole thing was **ed from the start. They ed up the transfer from npc to player produced. They created a half finished piece of mini game - and said - go on play that, it will get really good really soon. And lots of us did. We suggested improvements, fixes etc. Were largely ignored. When they finally get around to fixing it they produce a 1/4 finished piece of very slightly different . WTF? commitment to excellence my **ing arse
Dirk Smacker United Space Marine Corp	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:37:00 - [9] Would you mine if it was a stand alone game? Would you market trade if it was a stand alone game? Would you run a POS if it was a stand alone game? Would you mission if it was a stand alone game? Would you PvP if all of the above was eliminated and you didn't have to pay for ships and equipment?
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:59:00 - [10] Edited by: Ana Vyr on 26/01/2011 18:01:02 Edited by: Ana Vyr on 26/01/2011 17:59:02 Originally by: Dirk Smacker Would you mine if it was a stand alone game? Would you market trade if it was a stand alone game? Would you run a POS if it was a stand alone game? Would you mission if it was a stand alone game? Would you PvP if all of the above was eliminated and you didn't have to pay for ships and equipment? Without any risk, PvP in EvE would be kinda pointless and boring, so no. Missisoning isn't robust enough as it is, so no there too. The rest are obvious no answers. EvE only shines when you consider the entire package and all its interrelated aspects.

Zaerui	Posted - 2011.01.26 22:20:00 - [11] I concur. As it is, I'm letting the sub expire and getting away for a while; no, it's not just PI, but PI was the straw that broke the camel's back. The sore lack of communication lately from CCP and (what appears to be) a focus on mechanics and not player experience for game development (Incursion, I believe, is supposed to distract the playerbase from this) is much more a factor. And no - nobody can haz my stuffz. If CCP ever gets around to fixing PI and trying to make EVE more like a game and less like having a second job, I'll probably be back.
lushn	Posted - 2011.01.26 22:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Dirk Smacker Would you mine if it was a stand alone game? Would you market trade if it was a stand alone game? Would you run a POS if it was a stand alone game? Would you mission if it was a stand alone game? Would you PvP if all of the above was eliminated and you didn't have to pay for ships and equipment? -Yes I would Mine in standalone game. -I would market in standalone game -I would have a pos standalone game ( actually I have a POS myself , I shared POS with corporation before but it doesnt work. corporation and aliances doesnt work on eve. So I found the way to make my own corporation, soon Ill make my own alaince) -I dont like to do mission. SO doesnt mater standaalone or online ., probably I wouldnt do much mission, maybe some courier missions) -I wouldnt do PvP as same as I dont do in here. I never understand why people destroy some others belognings and have a plesure from it. I posted under another topic before. I realy love if CCP develop CD version of EVE, I definately buy it.
Aarkana	Posted - 2011.01.27 01:58:00 - [13] Ok I hear ya but do you have ANY suggestions on how to fix it? Anything pop to mind that would help improve PI? Or are you just impatient because PI is the precursor to Dust 514, so I'm pretty sure you're playing with a toy that doesn't have all the bells and whistles attached yet.
lushn	Posted - 2011.01.27 03:50:00 - [14] Yes I have. - Make ECUs no power equired. maybe only lil bit cpu. - Im not against deplaton but mat make spot slowlly moving. Not one day exsit other day not - make resources consume by players independent. so they dont effect each other. Reason we are industrial , we dont like to fight with others for anything including resources. (CCP has strange idea that everybody in this game , love to attack eachother. I bet they plan to change soon make planets structers destroyable by other players. There is a word in first PI guide says "... not destroyable yet" ) - improve graphical interface similar to old one. New bar graphics too slow. to adjust specific value on slider requires more ckick than old system. links ar so thin and with new ECU system they like spyders, its hard to fallow which connected where. There is No use of those halographic spinning images. They add those needless things then they dont support old CPUs in new releases.
Bel Amar Amarr Sudden Buggery Anarchy Unlimited	Posted - 2011.01.27 05:47:00 - [15] Originally by: lushn - make resources consume by players independent. so they dont effect each other. Reason we are industrial , we dont like to fight with others for anything including resources. (CCP has strange idea that everybody in this game , love to attack eachother. I bet they plan to change soon make planets structers destroyable by other players. There is a word in first PI guide says "... not destroyable yet" ) Speak for yourself. I love my industry, and I love the fact that it's dependant on cut throat market PvP. If you go in blindly making something because it's shiny, you lose isk. If the market changes and you don't follow it, you lose isk. I /want/ to have to compete with other players for resources, because it will weed out the incompetent and reward the rest, just like the market does now. I play EVE because it's cut throat and doesn't protect you from yourself, and barely protects you from others. PI should be no exception to that
Chelone Junkyard Gunners	Posted - 2011.01.27 06:00:00 - [16] Originally by: Bel Amar I love my industry, and I love the fact that it's dependant on cut throat market PvP. I /want/ to have to compete with other players for resources, because it will weed out the incompetent and reward the rest, just like the market does now. I play EVE because it's cut throat and doesn't protect you from yourself, and barely protects you from others. PI should be no exception to that Right on, you manly PvPing marketing PI'ing manly man you. Depletion? HTFU! Let's take things a step further. Let's have the planets EXPLODE at the end of a cycle!! With planetary resources being depleted in a matter of hours, realism is out the window already, so why shackle ourselves to that?? Maybe planets can explode and spawn randomly where we have to probe them out. Except when we try to probe them our ship is attacked by phantom fighter drones from subspace. So we need to form a fleet because as we all know nothing in eve should be solo. We need a fleet of at least 8-12 people just to find a single planet which will, of course, subsequently explode when it is mined for resources. There is also a chance of it exploding when it is probed. Furthermore, planetary installations should slide all around the surface of the planet as if the planet was covered in vaseline. In addition, before placing any extractor head, we must fill in a Captcha. All of this will help prevent botting. But this will all work out in the end because only 1/1000 eve players will do it, ensuring price stability.
Bel Amar Amarr Sudden Buggery Anarchy Unlimited	Posted - 2011.01.27 06:37:00 - [17] Originally by: Chelone Right on, you manly PvPing marketing PI'ing manly man you. Depletion? HTFU! Let's take things a step further. Let's have the planets EXPLODE at the end of a cycle!! Oh, look a Strawman! The dude tried to generalise industrialists by saying they don't like competition. I provided a counter to the generalisation. Trying to turn my argument in to something it wasn't doesn't alter my /actual/ argument in the slightest. In EVE, competition is good, and every new element added to the game should include it in one form or another. Save the Hyperbole for something useful huh?
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:04:00 - [18] I really have to laugh at the hardcore pvp types telling the industry person to htfu. Then whining like little girls when CCP wants to touch their Jump bridges and they have to actuall yrisk something when traveling through null sec Pod
Zeal Chi	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:32:00 - [19] Wow this post is filled with a bunch of crap content.. eploding planets , playing eve mini games as stand alone like wtf?!? Cant uderstand why people blow other peoples stuff up ?? Really? For the love of god i hope CCP neva listens to most of the people in here.. if you cant handle risk and dont know how to protect your assests you should rather go back to WoW. I normaly dont flame but this is just so gay i couldnt help my self
Zeal Chi	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:34:00 - [20] Originally by: lushn Yes I have. - Make ECUs no power equired. maybe only lil bit cpu. - Im not against deplaton but mat make spot slowlly moving. Not one day exsit other day not - make resources consume by players independent. so they dont effect each other. Reason we are industrial , we dont like to fight with others for anything including resources. (CCP has strange idea that everybody in this game , love to attack eachother. I bet they plan to change soon make planets structers destroyable by other players. There is a word in first PI guide says "... not destroyable yet" ) - improve graphical interface similar to old one. New bar graphics too slow. to adjust specific value on slider requires more ckick than old system. links ar so thin and with new ECU system they like spyders, its hard to fallow which connected where. There is No use of those halographic spinning images. They add those needless things then they dont support old CPUs in new releases. F.A.I.L

Jun Pellion	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:57:00 - [21] Edited by: Jun Pellion on 27/01/2011 10:03:38 Edited by: Jun Pellion on 27/01/2011 09:57:35 Originally by: lushn - Make ECUs no power equired. maybe only lil bit cpu. Why. What would that accomplish, aside from increasing the amount of pins by of 5-10 depending on your setup? Quote: - Im not against deplaton but mat make spot slowlly moving. Not one day exsit other day not It's kind of annoying yes. In a 0,5 system I can deplete an entire spot with just 15 pins and 24 hrs cycles. Maybe it should be tuned down a bit. Quote: - make resources consume by players independent. so they dont effect each other. Reason we are industrial , we dont like to fight with others for anything including resources. Total bull**. It might be the reason why YOU are an industrialist, in that case I urge you to HTFU or GTFO. Industrial PvP is just less violent and adrenalizing, but not a pinch less tactical. If you don't like it, EVE's not for you. Quote: (CCP has strange idea that everybody in this game , love to attack eachother. I bet they plan to change soon make planets structers destroyable by other players. There is a word in first PI guide says "... not destroyable yet" ) Of course. No source of income in eve is "safe", except for datacore. EVE is a harsh world. If you thought you could set up your little safe haven, you're mistaken. I think it's PEBKAC. EDIT: removed stupidity from first sentence. RE-EDIT: Originally by:** lushn -Yes I would Mine in standalone game. -I would market in standalone game -I would have a pos standalone game ( actually I have a POS myself , I shared POS with corporation before but it doesnt work. corporation and aliances doesnt work on eve. So I found the way to make my own corporation, soon Ill make my own alaince) They meant - a game where all you can do is mining and nothing else. That's the meaning of standalone game. What you're thinking is a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. I suggest you go and find yourself some Single player game on the lines of EVE. Edge of Chaos was a veeeery nice try in that direction. Quote: -I wouldnt do PvP as same as I dont do in here. I never understand why people destroy some others belognings and have a plesure from it. The pleasure comes from going out with your PLAYER skills and attempt to make the most of them. Just like sports, it's a contest of skill, coordination, reactions, strategy and tactics. It's a competition to improve yourself. In such a competition, most people take almost as much pleasure in destroying an opponent than they take in getting destroyed by said opponent. Of course, there's griefers and pirates and those who take pleasure in killing those who can't fight back. But you really should look for a single player game, cuz sure as hell eve ain't made for you. I posted under another topic before. I realy love if CCP develop CD version of EVE, I definately buy it.
Zeal Chi	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:10:00 - [22] Edited by: Zeal Chi on 27/01/2011 10:13:35 +1 to Jun!! If i find this guys system he lives in ima suicide gank those indy haulers even if i lose isk lol doubt it some what that he will have anything worth while
Chelone Junkyard Gunners	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:21:00 - [23] Originally by: Zeal Chi Edited by: Zeal Chi on 27/01/2011 10:13:35If i find this guys system he lives in ima suicide gank those indy haulers even if i lose isk lol doubt it some what that he will have anything worth while Yeah. YARRRRR you stupid neanderthal.
Mr Scot	Posted - 2011.01.27 13:35:00 - [24] Edited by: Mr Scot on 27/01/2011 13:38:37 I vote its worth the loss.. dont mind baer's that much but this guy just takes the cake.
Sokar Kalmid	Posted - 2011.01.27 14:47:00 - [25] Personally I like some of the changes to PI, the main thing that I do not like is the aforementioned, rapid depletion and moving of the deposits, the moving part is fine, just means more thinking involved and planning ahead. Its the rapid depletion that makes it rather frustrating. I would like to get two 24 hr cycles before I have to move the extractors. As a side note, market compation is a good thing :P, and the more people who quit pi, the better for some of us. Anyway my 2 isk to the argument.
Jun Pellion	Posted - 2011.01.27 16:29:00 - [26] Originally by: Sokar Kalmid Personally I like some of the changes to PI, the main thing that I do not like is the aforementioned, rapid depletion and moving of the deposits, the moving part is fine, just means more thinking involved and planning ahead. Its the rapid depletion that makes it rather frustrating. I would like to get two 24 hr cycles before I have to move the extractors. As a side note, market compation is a good thing :P, and the more people who quit pi, the better for some of us. Anyway my 2 isk to the argument. I'd love the deposits to move even every day, if they stayed at least close by. I've had to move a ECU to get back to extracting reasonable amounts, but doing that costs money, that increases my costs. Dunno if it's worthwhile in the end.
Zircalla	Posted - 2011.01.27 21:14:00 - [27] Edited by: Zircalla on 27/01/2011 21:14:59 My main issue is how best to spend all the isk I am making from PI for so little effort . Edit: Sure, I could make more isk if depletion was lower, or hot spots didn't move, or I felt like maximizing cycles/yield...but I have no need to buy jump freighers every week...
Lirinas	Posted - 2011.01.28 20:38:00 - [28] Looks like most of you folks never read some of the promises they were making with PI. What we have now is a sad sad shadow of what was expected. That drives a lot of anger from the more outspoken PI'ers like myself. Furthermore, CCP has been poorly communicating with the playerbase in regards to PI. Evidence of this is the simple fact that PI changes were never given a sticky\\Feedback thread in the Test Server forums, yet most everything else in Incursion did. One thing that I keep hearing is, "Enjoy the new dynamic PI system!" I can't wait to hear what people say when CCP decides to do this to every other static system in the game. Imagine the outcry if moons start depleting their resources every few days, forcing Moon Miners to dismantle and reset their entire POS all the time.
tpwh21	Posted - 2011.01.28 21:34:00 - [29] Edited by: tpwh21 on 28/01/2011 21:36:59 Edited by: tpwh21 on 28/01/2011 21:36:33 Originally by: Lirinas Looks like most of you folks never read some of the promises they were making with PI. What we have now is a sad sad shadow of what was expected. That drives a lot of anger from the more outspoken PI'ers like myself. Furthermore, CCP has been poorly communicating with the playerbase in regards to PI. Evidence of this is the simple fact that PI changes were never given a sticky\\Feedback thread in the Test Server forums, yet most everything else in Incursion did. Yeah i couldn't agree more with this post. As i trudge off to rebuild the colonies on umpteen planets - using one of the worse pieces of interface design i have ever seen - i think - thanks CCP for wasting loads of my time, making supposed pleasure a pain. Not well iterated, not well communicated. Another case of concentrating on some fancy feature - pulling all the devs off actually improving basic game mechanics. Why was the horrible routing system not fixed before all these other changes. to setup a planet should be install factories - shift or control click them then drag the resources feeding them from somewhere, drop the resource they produce. WTF were these kind of 'incremental' improvements. Why can you not set your launchpad as zoom to object? the list of simple enhancements is endless - yet the only one they came up with was making upgradeable command centres - when now you have to knock them down and rebuild them anyway.... The evidence of arse first ccp thinking couldn't be more clearly demonstrated in the sansha incursions - lets not bother to sort out the screwed high sec RR mechanics - which we've know about for ever - lets introduce content that has to have RR used - and then sort it out only when we have ****ed several thousand players off.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.28 21:47:00 - [30] most people who play this game would not mine and produce if it was not for the fact that it suports there PvP and frankly. . . .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE



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