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t2 missiles vs. t2 gunnery prequisites: unfair?

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Songbird	Posted - 2011.02.01 02:01:00 - [31] actually prerequisites for t2 missiles give you range, dps ,explosion velocity? , in short they want you to use t2 missiles to their full potential before you are able to equip em, while oth you may never need to use t2 small lasers , yet you will need them if you wanna have t2 mediums. Imagine if you wanted to have that torpedo golem and you had to start your specialization from t2 rockets. That's exactly what every gun user goes through. Every BS tachyon laser user knows how to use small frig size lasers. He most likely would never need em(especially if he's just cross training for fleet amarr battle ships) but he has to go through it.
Mona X Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.02.01 02:34:00 - [32] Originally by: Songbird Imagine if you wanted to have that torpedo golem and you had to start your specialization from t2 rockets. That's exactly what every gun user goes through. Every BS tachyon laser user knows how to use small frig size lasers. He most likely would never need em(especially if he's just cross training for fleet amarr battle ships) but he has to go through it. Now you imagine, that you want to use some Pulses, and now have to train another rank 5 skill. Join Eve-Online, meet interesting people, grief them.
Georn VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.01 03:08:00 - [33] It's fair because guns rule! Instant dmg = instant Gratification You cant' get an instapop with missiles (c; ____________ nerf metagaming, boost fun
Chuc Morris	Posted - 2011.02.01 04:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Georn It's fair because guns rule! Instant dmg = instant Gratification You cant' get an instapop with missiles (c; Nor with any other weapons system other than Arty's
Target Painter Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.01 04:57:00 - [35] Originally by: Georn You cant' get an instapop with missiles (c; I dunno know about anyone else, but I've had more than one ceptor that turned into a capsule upon meeting my CN Scourge (thanks Strong Crash booster and faction web!).
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.02.01 05:34:00 - [36] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/02/2011 05:35:18 Originally by: Danna Hande Any logical reason? Guns and missiles are different. Sucks later on though... 12D plus to get T2 Heavy missiles and when you just move on to Cruise/Torps on a battleship far faster than that lol Would kinda like them to standardize the lvl IV/lvl V requirements for T2 stuff. Make it all either lvl IV or all lvl V again
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.01 05:38:00 - [37] On the other hand, missile systems generally dont even require t2 training to be effective, unlike turrets where access to the t2 ammo is mandatory. For day-to-day usage, you'll do just fine with named launchers (apart from the hilariously expensive arbalest HMLs).
Von Kroll Caldari Kroll's Legion	Posted - 2011.02.01 17:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Songbird Liang's tengu gives you 800 dps at 115 km(or w/e your target range is ) with t2 heavies. on top of that you can go directly for the t2 missiles without having to train light missiles or rockets to 5. No - it is not fair. You think you're going to realize that 800 dps in-game with only the prerequisite missile skills for Heavy Missile Spec I? Try training up all missile support skills to V, along with Heavy Missile Spec V and see how that compares to your favorite flavor of T2 medium guns and all applicable Lvl V gun support skils. For example, not counting AWU and, for Minmatar, not counting Controlled Burst at all. There is balance...
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2011.02.01 19:13:00 - [39] Edited by: Wet Ferret on 01/02/2011 19:15:01 Originally by: Von Kroll Originally by: Songbird Liang's tengu gives you 800 dps at 115 km(or w/e your target range is ) with t2 heavies. on top of that you can go directly for the t2 missiles without having to train light missiles or rockets to 5. No - it is not fair. You think you're going to realize that 800 dps in-game with only the prerequisite missile skills for Heavy Missile Spec I? Try training up all missile support skills to V, along with Heavy Missile Spec V and see how that compares to your favorite flavor of T2 medium guns and all applicable Lvl V gun support skils. For example, not counting AWU and, for Minmatar, not counting Controlled Burst at all. There is balance... You forget about the 5% RoF and heavy missile implants, faction damage mods, and nevermind that furies can be speed tanked by a carrier (maybe slight exaggeration).
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.02.01 19:30:00 - [40] Its part of the balance, besides, he'll have frigate t2 guns whilst you'll have to train for standards still.
Plus 1	Posted - 2011.02.01 19:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Songbird actually prerequisites for t2 missiles give you range, dps ,explosion velocity? , in short they want you to use t2 missiles to their full potential before you are able to equip em, while oth you may never need to use t2 small lasers , yet you will need them if you wanna have t2 mediums. Imagine if you wanted to have that torpedo golem and you had to start your specialization from t2 rockets. That's exactly what every gun user goes through. Every BS tachyon laser user knows how to use small frig size lasers. He most likely would never need em(especially if he's just cross training for fleet amarr battle ships) but he has to go through it. Huh? What missiles have GMP, TNP, bombardment, or projection as pre reqs?
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.01 19:54:00 - [42] Edited by: stoicfaux on 01/02/2011 19:55:29 Edited by: stoicfaux on 01/02/2011 19:55:03 Originally by: Plus 1 Huh? What missiles have GMP, TNP, bombardment, or projection as pre reqs? T2 Fury missiles if you actually want to hit for more damage than their T1 counterparts. Bombardment and projection are important for torps, and help keep volley counting and defender spam (aka potential DPS loss) to a minimum for non-torps.
Plus 1	Posted - 2011.02.01 20:07:00 - [43] Originally by: stoicfaux Edited by: stoicfaux on 01/02/2011 19:55:29 Edited by: stoicfaux on 01/02/2011 19:55:03 Originally by: Plus 1 Huh? What missiles have GMP, TNP, bombardment, or projection as pre reqs? T2 Fury missiles if you actually want to hit for more damage than their T1 counterparts. Bombardment and projection are important for torps, and help keep volley counting and defender spam (aka potential DPS loss) to a minimum for non-torps. That's not a prerequisite.
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.01 20:28:00 - [44] Edited by: stoicfaux on 01/02/2011 20:28:16 Originally by: Plus 1 That's not a prerequisite. Never said they were. However, if you want to actually take advantage of T2 ammo or otherwise put out a useful amount of DPS with missiles, then they are "mandatory" skills to train. However, an advantage to missiles is that Cruise and Siege launchers don't require you to train a support skill to level V like Large Turrets do. You can also use TPs or rigs to avoid training the missile support skills to level V (Golem notwithstanding.)
Junkie Babe	Posted - 2011.02.01 20:39:00 - [45] Originally by: Mona X Originally by: Songbird Imagine if you wanted to have that torpedo golem and you had to start your specialization from t2 rockets. That's exactly what every gun user goes through. Every BS tachyon laser user knows how to use small frig size lasers. He most likely would never need em(especially if he's just cross training for fleet amarr battle ships) but he has to go through it. Now you imagine, that you want to use some Pulses, and now have to train another rank 5 skill. What are you on about dude? To Use Large Mega Pulse II Small Energy Turret 5 Small Laser Pulse Spec 4 Medium Energy Turret 5 Medium Laser Pulse Spec 4 Large Energy Turret 5 Large Laser Pulse Spec 1 And you also need Gunnery 5 Motion Prediction 5 So yes you do need other things other than the lasers skills to use T2 varients
Plus 1	Posted - 2011.02.01 20:49:00 - [46] Originally by: stoicfaux Never said they were. The poster I replied to did. Anyway, the big difference between guns and missiles is that missiles are really a secondary weapon in the game. Sure, Caldari lean toward them, but hybrid ships are a big chunk of their lineup. This is like comparing guns to drones.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.01 21:11:00 - [47] Originally by: Junkie Babe And you also need Gunnery 5 Motion Prediction 5 So yes you do need other things other than the lasers skills to use T2 varients Dont forget - sharpshooter - rapid firing - surgical strike - controlled bursts (for the cap using turrets) - trajectory analysis (for projectiles + blasters)
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.01 23:01:00 - [48] Originally by: Chuc Morris Originally by: Georn It's fair because guns rule! Instant dmg = instant Gratification You cant' get an instapop with missiles (c; Nor with any other weapons system other than Arty's You mean projectiles. AC's can do it too.
Shoa Jinn	Posted - 2011.02.01 23:54:00 - [49] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Chuc Morris Originally by: Georn It's fair because guns rule! Instant dmg = instant Gratification You cant' get an instapop with missiles (c; Nor with any other weapons system other than Arty's You mean projectiles. AC's can do it too. So can tachs.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.02.01 23:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Shoa Jinn Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Chuc Morris Originally by: Georn It's fair because guns rule! Instant dmg = instant Gratification You cant' get an instapop with missiles (c; Nor with any other weapons system other than Arty's You mean projectiles. AC's can do it too. So can tachs. And blasters

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