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Crucis Cassiopeiae
PORSCHE AG
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Posted - 2011.01.31 15:23:00 -
[31]
+1 "Everybody's at war with different things... I'm at war with my own heart sometimes" |
a newbie
Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:09:00 -
[32]
While I support this as a whole, it's not going to happen. Bots exist people coders with a brain control the MOUSE not the game. Randomizing menus is just going to cause people grief, and is on a level or paranoia as the TSA in the United States. You want random borderline sexual abuse pat downs next?
Bots exist and will ALWAYS exist unless CCP literally CONTROLS your computer. Then whose playing the game?
If you see a bot, report it. CCP can dance like a marionette but it is not going to change the result. The effort they have spent in curbing bots already is one of the most developed anti-bot system I have seen. I cannot in good conscience ask them to waste more time on this unless someone develops a way to hack the servers themselves.
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Sirius Cassiopeiae
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Posted - 2011.01.31 19:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: a newbie While I support this as a whole, it's not going to happen. Bots exist people coders with a brain control the MOUSE not the game. Randomizing menus is just going to cause people grief, and is on a level or paranoia as the TSA in the United States. You want random borderline sexual abuse pat downs next?
Bots exist and will ALWAYS exist unless CCP literally CONTROLS your computer. Then whose playing the game?
If you see a bot, report it. CCP can dance like a marionette but it is not going to change the result. The effort they have spent in curbing bots already is one of the most developed anti-bot system I have seen. I cannot in good conscience ask them to waste more time on this unless someone develops a way to hack the servers themselves.
Sorry... but WE CAN ASK CCP to "waste" more time on this... and you know why??? becouse WE PAY RL MONEY FOR PLAYING THIS GAME... and before we created account we had to agree to EULA... and EULA is contract between two sides... and all we ask is that other side carry out what THEY WROTE in that contract... nothing more and nothing less... so if they say that botting will be sanctioned... well then sanction it...
and if they dont do anything to conduct EULA then we dont need to obey it... and that will lead to death of EVE like many other games died becouse of Bots...
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Jaari Val'Dara
Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.01.31 19:55:00 -
[34]
1. Create an anti-botting coalition. 2. Make CCP reveal names of bots. 3. Declare war on bot user alliances and annihilate them.
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Windjammer
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Posted - 2011.01.31 23:49:00 -
[35]
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a newbie
Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.02.01 03:15:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sirius Cassiopeiae Edited by: Sirius Cassiopeiae on 31/01/2011 19:39:19
Originally by: a newbie While I support this as a whole, it's not going to happen. Bots exist people coders with a brain control the MOUSE not the game. Randomizing menus is just going to cause people grief, and is on a level or paranoia as the TSA in the United States. You want random borderline sexual abuse pat downs next?
Bots exist and will ALWAYS exist unless CCP literally CONTROLS your computer. Then whose playing the game?
If you see a bot, report it. CCP can dance like a marionette but it is not going to change the result. The effort they have spent in curbing bots already is one of the most developed anti-bot system I have seen. I cannot in good conscience ask them to waste more time on this unless someone develops a way to hack the servers themselves.
Sorry... but WE CAN ASK CCP to "waste" more time on this... and you know why??? becouse WE PAY RL MONEY TO PLAY THIS GAME... and before we created account WE HAD TO agree to EULA... and EULA is contract between two sides... and all we ask is that other side carry out what THEY WROTE in that contract... nothing more and nothing less... so if they say that botting will be sanctioned... well then sanction it...
and if they dont do anything to conduct EULA then we dont need to obey it... and that will lead to death of EVE like many other games died becouse of Bots...
If you actually read any of the CCP correspondence regarding the BOTS, they spend copious amounts of time "dealing with bots". They spend enough time dealing with it and listening to complaints of players, I am sure they are having nightmares about BOTS in their sleep.
If you use the search tool you should be able to find a particular topic in by a dev explaining just why bots are so difficult to spot. I can name a few because for the past 2 years I have had these damned emails trying to sell bots because a forum I signed up on had a security leak and a .cn originating user began spamming all users.
When you actually LOOK at what CCP is trying to fight, these things are ridiculous! You would think rails that run you through diablo were high-tech, these things make those older bots look like a Tandy next to a 8500$ gaming rig.
However I KNOW since the first MMO I played in 97 Bots have existed. Do you think out of no where CCP is going to develop a Anti-BOTting system that hasn't existed in the 14 years its been a prevalent trade? Do you think you pay enough for them to TRY and develop that? Considering just how much program developers make in a paycheck, I can sum it up pretty simply. CCP has spent more money in Anti-BOT development than I have made during my highest year of income.
But please don't tell me because you pay a subscription CCP IS REQUIRED to make you happy. They don't force you to subscribe, neither do they do NOTHING to try and make you happy. They do what they can with the money that is there. They have jobs, they are not subjects of the Amarr empire. Treating them as such shows no respect for a group trying to make an earnest attempt at correcting the issue.
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Supercon
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Posted - 2011.02.01 05:17:00 -
[37]
bump /supported
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Sirius Cassiopeiae
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Posted - 2011.02.01 10:30:00 -
[38]
Originally by: a newbie
If you actually read any of the CCP correspondence regarding the BOTS, they spend copious amounts of time "dealing with bots". They spend enough time dealing with it and listening to complaints of players, I am sure they are having nightmares about BOTS in their sleep.
If you use the search tool you should be able to find a particular topic in by a dev explaining just why bots are so difficult to spot. I can name a few because for the past 2 years I have had these damned emails trying to sell bots because a forum I signed up on had a security leak and a .cn originating user began spamming all users.
When you actually LOOK at what CCP is trying to fight, these things are ridiculous! You would think rails that run you through diablo were high-tech, these things make those older bots look like a Tandy next to a 8500$ gaming rig.
However I KNOW since the first MMO I played in 97 Bots have existed. Do you think out of no where CCP is going to develop a Anti-BOTting system that hasn't existed in the 14 years its been a prevalent trade? Do you think you pay enough for them to TRY and develop that? Considering just how much program developers make in a paycheck, I can sum it up pretty simply. CCP has spent more money in Anti-BOT development than I have made during my highest year of income.
But please don't tell me because you pay a subscription CCP IS REQUIRED to make you happy. They don't force you to subscribe, neither do they do NOTHING to try and make you happy. They do what they can with the money that is there. They have jobs, they are not subjects of the Amarr empire. Treating them as such shows no respect for a group trying to make an earnest attempt at correcting the issue.
Ccan you please tell me what did they done against Bots??? only thing that is done, and not only on paper, is Unholy Rage, and it was not against bots it was only against RMT...
they can spend trillion dolars on "taking care" of the problem like this...
many other MMOs are doing things against Bots, things that work more or less, Bots are adapted and now are much more $$$ than before and in a circle... but they are working... and CCP cant say that... WE DON'T SEE ANYTHING they are doing against Botting... i can wrote that I am constructing nuclear power plant and only thing that i did i wrote that... and ppl will be deceived untill they see that there is no new (more) power... that like we all feel... deceived... becouse there is no result... only words...
And if CCP cant (or wont becouse its too much dolars at stake) anything against bots... well... ok... just say so... then remove that part from EULA and we will all use Bots... and no more threads about this... And that will happen sooner or later, 90% of players will be using Bots, if CCP dont do anything...
"we are building nuclear power plant, but we can't give you new power... just pay for that in contract... but new power you cant get... you know... we are working on that... we are working... but untill then lets make one new factory and sell it to you and new ppl... but we are working..."
p.s. this is harsh version... and sorry if i am too harsh... but when you tell harsh version then all ppl will see what you are talking about...
and sorry for bad english... didn't have time to check the text at all...
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.02.01 18:27:00 -
[39]
Supported.
An anti-bot program should be multi-layered like CCP's anti-phishing program
1) Modify the client so its harder to bot (stop code injection). 2) Modify the content so its harder to bot (interfere with simple "timer" macros) 3) Add methods to flag bot-like play. Both coded methods, and easier player reporting. 4) GM challenges to flagged accounts. Modify the EULA to make it a violation to not replay in an understandable way to a GM challenge. Worried about being AFK? Give the GM's tools so they can tell if the client is being operated while ignoring them. 5) Ban, name and shame. Name the actual player (not just the pilot), the corp and alliance.
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Elanor Vega
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Posted - 2011.02.01 19:30:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Elanor Vega on 01/02/2011 19:32:02
Originally by: Vincent Athena Supported.
An anti-bot program should be multi-layered like CCP's anti-phishing program
1) Modify the client so its harder to bot (stop code injection). 2) Modify the content so its harder to bot (interfere with simple "timer" macros) 3) Add methods to flag bot-like play. Both coded methods, and easier player reporting. 4) GM challenges to flagged accounts. Modify the EULA to make it a violation to not replay in an understandable way to a GM challenge. Worried about being AFK? Give the GM's tools so they can tell if the client is being operated while ignoring them. 5) Ban, name and shame. Name the actual player (not just the pilot), the corp and alliance.
+1
only, one more thing put on the list:
6) Modify the server and client, so that server can know what is original EVE client and what is not, so that server accepts only original EVE client connections
because some bots emulate client...
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Taedrin
The Green Cross Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.02 00:41:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Taedrin on 02/02/2011 00:41:56
Originally by: Sirius Cassiopeiae
Originally by: a newbie
If you actually read any of the CCP correspondence regarding the BOTS, they spend copious amounts of time "dealing with bots". They spend enough time dealing with it and listening to complaints of players, I am sure they are having nightmares about BOTS in their sleep.
If you use the search tool you should be able to find a particular topic in by a dev explaining just why bots are so difficult to spot. I can name a few because for the past 2 years I have had these damned emails trying to sell bots because a forum I signed up on had a security leak and a .cn originating user began spamming all users.
When you actually LOOK at what CCP is trying to fight, these things are ridiculous! You would think rails that run you through diablo were high-tech, these things make those older bots look like a Tandy next to a 8500$ gaming rig.
However I KNOW since the first MMO I played in 97 Bots have existed. Do you think out of no where CCP is going to develop a Anti-BOTting system that hasn't existed in the 14 years its been a prevalent trade? Do you think you pay enough for them to TRY and develop that? Considering just how much program developers make in a paycheck, I can sum it up pretty simply. CCP has spent more money in Anti-BOT development than I have made during my highest year of income.
But please don't tell me because you pay a subscription CCP IS REQUIRED to make you happy. They don't force you to subscribe, neither do they do NOTHING to try and make you happy. They do what they can with the money that is there. They have jobs, they are not subjects of the Amarr empire. Treating them as such shows no respect for a group trying to make an earnest attempt at correcting the issue.
Ccan you please tell me what did they done against Bots??? only thing that is done, and not only on paper, is Unholy Rage, and it was not against bots it was only against RMT...
they can spend trillion dolars on "taking care" of the problem like this...
many other MMOs are doing things against Bots, things that work more or less, Bots are adapted and now are much more $$$ than before and in a circle... but they are working... and CCP cant say that... WE DON'T SEE ANYTHING they are doing against Botting... i can wrote that I am constructing nuclear power plant and only thing that i did i wrote that... and ppl will be deceived untill they see that there is no new (more) power... that like we all feel... deceived... becouse there is no result... only words...
And if CCP cant (or wont becouse its too much dolars at stake) anything against bots... well... ok... just say so... then remove that part from EULA and we will all use Bots... and no more threads about this... And that will happen sooner or later, 90% of players will be using Bots, if CCP dont do anything...
"we are building nuclear power plant, but we can't give you new power... just pay for that in contract... but new power you cant get... you know... we are working on that... we are working... but untill then lets make one new factory and sell it to you and new ppl... but we are working..."
p.s. this is harsh version... and sorry if i am too harsh... but when you tell harsh version then all ppl will see what you are talking about...
and sorry for bad english... didn't have time to check the text at all...
There is plenty of empirical evidence out there that CCP takes action against bots. Every few months, people will make a post on the forums saying: "What the hell happened to all of the bots in system <x>?" Which will be confirmed by multiple other players who claim the same thing and say that the bots on their watchlist aren't logging in anymore.
This is what CCP does: when someone petitions about a bot or RMT, they RESEARCH into it before taking action. They collect as many related accounts as possible and then ban them all at once. It is inefficient IMO, but this is evidence that CCP *DOES* care. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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LordElfa
Gallente Tri Corp
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Posted - 2011.02.02 11:41:00 -
[42]
Useless thread, useless request. People have made all sorts of suggestions on how to solve the problem and those who don't respond about how a bot can get past the idea respond by whining about the solution making their game more tedious or time consuming.
IOW, its an problem everyone wants solved and nobody is willing to deal with the hassles of anything that would be needed to solve them. I'm sorry folks, but you can't ****ing have it both ways. What makes the game easy for you makes it easy for bots and what kills the bots makes it hell on earth for the players.
The Republicans said it best, you wanna be safe, you're gonna have to give up some freedoms. ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
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Avila Cracko
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Posted - 2011.02.02 11:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Taedrin There is plenty of empirical evidence out there that CCP takes action against bots. Every few months, people will make a post on the forums saying: "What the hell happened to all of the bots in system <x>?" Which will be confirmed by multiple other players who claim the same thing and say that the bots on their watchlist aren't logging in anymore.
This is what CCP does: when someone petitions about a bot or RMT, they RESEARCH into it before taking action. They collect as many related accounts as possible and then ban them all at once. It is inefficient IMO, but this is evidence that CCP *DOES* care.
I saw that threads appear only when there was some change to the client (update, fix)...
And about banning... yes, they ban small number of them... but that's ONLY TEMPORARY BAN... and they get theirs accounts back... so they dont have to worry about absolutely anything...
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.02 11:46:00 -
[44]
Absolutely. However not to bring your mood down but a properly programmed bot is almost undetectable from a player that just ignores you. At least to the server. How can you differentiate a bot that has random number generators for the click locations and timing built it from a guy that just has no life and mines 23 / 7 ?
Ratting same. I support this but really this is going to be an uphill battle. Pod |
Vak Keelin
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Posted - 2011.02.03 04:30:00 -
[45]
I'm not a programmer I'm a miner. So I don't know what kind of softwhere it would take. I do know that botting is cheating and that CCP doesn't seem to be doing anything to stop it.
If there isn't softwhere for it then have one of those squiggly letter codes that web sites use when a minning ship activates it lasers. if the code given is wrong 3 times, make the ship flashy red to everyone around. If they get it right then they are given a pass until they dock up again.
You could limit this to just mining barges if you feel it it too intensive. Seriously though, something needs to be done.
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Lexxarius
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Posted - 2011.02.03 11:31:00 -
[46]
/Signed
Why not allow players to police 'botters'? A kinda menu option (like invite to fleet), where a player can tag a botter, and if that botter doesn't click on a 'confirmation' button / enter a code (whatever) within 5 mins, then that bot /afk player then turns red and is open season.
Should the confirmation pass then it cannot be activated again for 1h.
Simple solution maybe, but I dont know, i'm not a programmer, just an Eve gamer.
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Terrorform
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Posted - 2011.02.03 15:40:00 -
[47]
Post here if you would like CCP to make the removal of BOTS/SCRIPTS from EVE Online a priority.
Do it noaaw!
+1
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Skandrannon22
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Posted - 2011.02.03 15:45:00 -
[48]
They got one for gold spammers... bots are just the other side of that... I'm down!
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Severian Carnifex
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Posted - 2011.02.05 11:03:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Severian Carnifex on 05/02/2011 11:03:46
+1
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Ere Colliseru
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Posted - 2011.02.05 11:19:00 -
[50]
supported! even if the whole next expansion is used for that!
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2011.02.05 13:20:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Terrorform Post here if you would like CCP to make the removal of BOTS/SCRIPTS from EVE Online a priority.
Do it noaaw!
+1
So you want CCP to spend manpower and resources to actually decrese its revenue ???
It is just NOT going to happen in capitalism.
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Kurfin
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Posted - 2011.02.06 11:18:00 -
[52]
I believe they are already doing plenty, but they can't tell us everything because then they tell the botters everything. But more effort in this direction couldn't hurt.
I think they should look at people who are online, and doing stuff whether it's ratting, mining market activity, and so on, for 23.5 hours a day, 7 days a week. No one can survive on 30 mins sleep, certainly not for several days, so they are either botting or account sharing. Either way it's a violation of the EULA, and I would have thought could be an easy win. Even if it means botters only bot for 16 hours a day, every little helps.
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Andy Croxton
Gallente Militaris Industries Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.02.07 01:47:00 -
[53]
Either make the belts and rocks larger or get rid of them please. Andy Croxton Militaris Industries Recruitment Officer
Killboard
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.02.07 03:07:00 -
[54]
---------------- ** Wormhole Trading ** |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.02.07 05:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Vak Keelin
If there isn't softwhere for it then have one of those squiggly letter codes that web sites use when a minning ship activates it lasers. if the code given is wrong 3 times, make the ship flashy red to everyone around.
Another genius.
CAPTCHA doesn't work. Is ****. Doesn't work, and Is ****.
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Darirol
FEROX AQUILA Cold Steel Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.07 06:12:00 -
[56]
:thumbsup:
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Morgenholt Blue
Swift Redemption
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:11:00 -
[57]
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aetherguy881
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Posted - 2011.02.07 23:21:00 -
[58]
------------------- Always remember this about EVE:
Life is cheap, or 15 bucks a month. |
Blightsteel
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Posted - 2011.02.08 02:21:00 -
[59]
They should automatically flag accounts for inspection if they're constantly online and doing activities for more than 80% of the time that the servers are up.
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Brainzor
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Posted - 2011.02.08 14:16:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Brainzor on 08/02/2011 14:16:08 absolutely
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