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Lijah Sai
Rite to Rule
0
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Posted - 2012.08.19 17:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
CNR
Rigs: Large warhead rigor I x3
Top: 7x Cruise missile launcher II (empty slot, recommend one? dont need a tractor beam, only going in to clear it out then in with a noctis)
mid: 100 MN MWD, Large shield booster II (this is where i need advice, i dont have enough CPU to have a XL SB, what skill is it i need to train?) adaptive invulnerability field II, shield boost amplifier I (working on II) and 2 specific deflection / dissipation field.
bot: co proccessor II and 4 Ballistic control system II
Also, with this fit, do you think I'm ready for L4 missions
DPS 629.6 with missiles alone, i dont have tech II drones. overall tank its almost 40k (13.5k shield, 12,452 armour, 12.451 structure) thanks for any advice |
Bommel McMurdoc
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
23
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Posted - 2012.08.19 17:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well, for easier shield fittings, you can go with the skill "shield upgrades" you should also try and get as many of the "upgrades skills" including weapons and advanced weapons upgrades. Both will make fittings quite easier, for further resources on fitting upgrades you can also look to evemon "certificates" tab and look at the core fittings to at least standard.
As for that lone high slot you are talking about you can put a drone link augmenter on there. While on the subject of drones, you really should get tech 2 drones, at least Hobgoblin II's they will make dealing with frigates easier for you. Especially if you get warp scrambled in a mission.
as for the rigs.... why not go with a flare and a rigor then a CCC, to free up a little CPU? that's just an idea, don't take my word for it though. There's a lot of great fits out there for the CNR.
the fit in the link I am posting, is very expensive, but it's an idea that you can peruse for establishing some goals and think about some more cost effective modifications. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/49928-Raven-Navy-Issue-CNR-Optimal-Level-4-Missioner-Updated-for-Inferno.html
the above link is a great fit for damage, it's a little weak on the defense but you can certainly eject the AB for a meta 4 cap booster. Make sure you mind the comments the poster put up, the implants would certainly prove to be a valuable asset for your CNR. |
Kasutra
Tailor Company IMPERIAL LEGI0N
62
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't see a cap mod. With a shield booster and an MWD, that cap is going to go down fast. |
Lijah Sai
Rite to Rule
0
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kasutra wrote:I don't see a cap mod. With a shield booster and an MWD, that cap is going to go down fast.
what would you swap out for a cap booster? |
Bommel McMurdoc
East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate
23
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Posted - 2012.08.19 18:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lijah Sai wrote:Kasutra wrote:I don't see a cap mod. With a shield booster and an MWD, that cap is going to go down fast. what would you swap out for a cap booster?
afterburner. Really, the Afterburner is a convenience than a necessity. only a few missions would require a AB like 'Recon' or long warpgate (over 30km's) distances. |
Jazmyn Stone
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
21
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Posted - 2012.08.19 23:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rigs: 2 rigor 1 flare (I changed from 3 rigors)
Depending on skills, but I use Arbalest launchers just to get everything to fit, instead of T2
7 Arbalest launchers, CN missles (about 620 dps, and plenty enough for any mission) 8th slot is empty, there is nothing I need there.
Pith X-L shield booster, (some people don't use deadspace mods) SBA II 2 CN hardeners and 1 res amp (depending on mission) Heavy Cap booster II with 800 charges (15 in cargo, just for those "oh, shi*" times, but that's only happened a few times)
4 CN BCS DC II
10 Light Drones (depending on mission) Use to carry medium drones, but there just not needed.
(This is similiar to Liang's fits)
Sometimes if you go with the T2 launchers, you just run into fitting problems, especialy if using T2 BCS. Kirst uses T2 launchers, with a similiar fit, but has to use named hardeners and res. amps. If I have a mission where I have a long way to go to the next gate, I may fit a AB, but then I'll drop the SBA. Otherwise, an AB isn't needed.
What ever you use, if you are struggling thru the mission, then you must change something, or get more skills. (I've been thinking of "cheaping" up my fit just to make some of the missions interesting again.)
Missions can be done with less, as I had to work hard to get to this point. Now the L4 missions are too easy.
I'm mostly at Irjunen CPF, if you need more info, or need help, just give me a yell.
-Jaz |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
125
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Posted - 2012.08.19 23:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Don't need mwd. MWD also gimps your cap.
The reason you don't have cpu for the mid slots is because you have 4 bcu in low. Drop 4th bcu.
Try NOS for the 8th high slot. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first! |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
1
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Posted - 2012.08.20 09:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
I love my CNR - awesome ship for Lvl 4s
My fit is:
7 CN CM Launcher Black Eagle Drone Link Augmenter
Gist X-Type Shield Booster Gist x-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Cap Recharger II CN Invuln 2 Gist active resists (changed for each mission)
3 CN BCU 2 PDS II
I use CN Faction CMs.
Booster perma runs. 5 Hammerhead IIs deal with Frigs. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
138
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Posted - 2012.08.20 10:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:I love my CNR - awesome ship for Lvl 4s My fit is: 7 CN CM Launcher Black Eagle Drone Link Augmenter Gist X-Type Shield Booster Gist x-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Cap Recharger II CN Invuln 2 Gist active resists (changed for each mission) 3 CN BCU 2 PDS II 3 x CCC 1s I use CN Faction CMs. Booster perma runs. 5 Hammerhead IIs deal with Frigs.
You realise that your bling faction fetish fit does less dps than an actual good fit which doesn't need all that nonsense, right?
Amat victoria curam. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
1
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Posted - 2012.08.20 10:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:You realise that your bling faction fetish fit does less dps than an actual good fit which doesn't need all that nonsense, right?
It's not intentionally bling - I put that together at the start of the year when I had really low skills and couldn't run a T2 build. Happy to change it if you can point to something better, but it does Lvl 4s very well TBH. |
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Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
138
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Posted - 2012.08.20 11:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:You realise that your bling faction fetish fit does less dps than an actual good fit which doesn't need all that nonsense, right?
It's not intentionally bling - I put that together at the start of the year when I had really low skills and couldn't run a T2 build. Happy to change it if you can point to something better, but it does Lvl 4s very well TBH.
Bit of a pet peeve I must admit but I really don't understand why people put on bling stuff you don't need, and generally those fit perform badly as well. Good example is that clown who lost a 3 billion fit Fleet typhoon with zero dps, obviously an idiot, obviously clueless on the game. Not saying all bling fits are clueless pilots but more often than not they are.
The main issue is not using rigor rigs, those really help increasing your applied dps against non-BS targets so using them speeds up your missioning meaning more income and less boredom. the downside is that you can't get a perma tank anymore but you can solve that in two ways. Either just accept that you have limited tank life (which is almost never a problem) or switch to a cap boosted fit. If you use a cap booster you only waste one slot on cap, not 3 rigs and 2 low slots, result is that you can focus your dps&tank a whole lot better that way and because you kill faster you also need less tank to begin with.
Have a look here, would you want a tad more tank you could drop the AB in favour of more resists but it really isn't needed and speed can always be useful, either to get to a gate or to pick up a mission item.
[Raven Navy Issue, PVE - LVL 4 Guristas] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Signal Amplifier II
100MN Afterburner II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Thermic Dissipation Field II Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field Kinetic Deflection Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x3 Amat victoria curam. |
MarvinOne
Zilog Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2012.08.20 11:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
fit needs adjusting IMHO ( i flew CNR for more than a year) a) replace a rigor with 1 flare (all 3 T2 ofc) b) navy missiles c) a painter d) gist a-type large shield booster + a shield boost amp e) remove cap booster f) remove afterburner
Vilnius Zar wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:You realise that your bling faction fetish fit does less dps than an actual good fit which doesn't need all that nonsense, right?
It's not intentionally bling - I put that together at the start of the year when I had really low skills and couldn't run a T2 build. Happy to change it if you can point to something better, but it does Lvl 4s very well TBH. Bit of a pet peeve I must admit but I really don't understand why people put on bling stuff you don't need, and generally those fit perform badly as well. Good example is that clown who lost a 3 billion fit Fleet typhoon with zero dps, obviously an idiot, obviously clueless on the game. Not saying all bling fits are clueless pilots but more often than not they are. The main issue is not using rigor rigs, those really help increasing your applied dps against non-BS targets so using them speeds up your missioning meaning more income and less boredom. the downside is that you can't get a perma tank anymore but you can solve that in two ways. Either just accept that you have limited tank life (which is almost never a problem) or switch to a cap boosted fit. If you use a cap booster you only waste one slot on cap, not 3 rigs and 2 low slots, result is that you can focus your dps&tank a whole lot better that way and because you kill faster you also need less tank to begin with. Have a look here, would you want a tad more tank you could drop the AB in favour of more resists but it really isn't needed and speed can always be useful, either to get to a gate or to pick up a mission item. [Raven Navy Issue, PVE - LVL 4 Guristas] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Signal Amplifier II 100MN Afterburner II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Thermic Dissipation Field II Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field Kinetic Deflection Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Hobgoblin II x5 Garde II x3
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Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
138
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Posted - 2012.08.20 11:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
MarvinOne wrote:fit needs adjusting IMHO ( i flew CNR for more than a year) a) replace a rigor with 1 flare (all 3 T2 ofc) b) navy missiles c) a painter d) gist a-type large shield booster + a shield boost amp e) remove cap booster f) remove afterburner
a) after having done the math using actual realistic scenarios, there's zero reason to use 2 rigors +1 flare over 3 rigors, and would you start to use T2 ammo then that would favour rigors. So no. b) which has nothing to do with the fit as such, a non-issue c) not needed, with 3 rigors you get to cruiser-like explosion radius d) dumb faction fetish bling bullshit, it's not needed and makes you into a gank target. e) sure, give a fit without a cap booster that allows for rigor rigs and 4 BCS f) not needed, there's enough tank already and increased speed can, in some missions, give faster completion times.
In short, you wrote a lot of nonsense. Amat victoria curam. |
John Ratcliffe
Sausy Sausages
1
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Posted - 2012.08.20 13:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Is there any point in fitting a TP if you also fit 3 Rigors?
P.S. Apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread, but I'm sure the responses will help him too |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
611
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Posted - 2012.08.20 15:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Is there any point in fitting a TP if you also fit 3 Rigors? P.S. Apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread, but I'm sure the responses will help him too
In fact there is. More math than likely wanted here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=145812&find=unread |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 11:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Is there any point in fitting a TP if you also fit 3 Rigors? P.S. Apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread, but I'm sure the responses will help him too
Painter will still help against cruisers increasing applied dps but against BCs it'll be ineffective. The problem is that 1 painter simply doesn't work due to module cycle time and having to wait till your missile hits the target, so in theory it helps but in practise you'll miss out on a whole lot of targets and it's annoying as fck. You'd need 2-3 painters to make up for the module cycle issues but it would still be very annoying (one of the reasons I'm no fan of the golem, it NEEDS painters).
If you want your effort to actually net results then don't fly a Raven hull but get a turret ship like a Mach, NM/Pally or a Navy Mega/Kronos. Raven hull will for ever be slower to complete missions due to mediocre dps and missile travel time, they're easy to use and all that but they're not amazing. Amat victoria curam. |
Aamrr
279
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Posted - 2012.08.21 13:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Is there any reason nobody is looking at a dual-ASB setup? They work marvelously, in my experience.
[Raven Navy Issue, Mission]
Co-Processor II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
100MN Afterburner II Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150 Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 150 Thermic Dissipation Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II
Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Cruise Missile Launcher II Auto Targeting System II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
139
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 14:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Is there any reason nobody is looking at a dual-ASB setup? They work marvelously, in my experience.
Cost, those charges start to add up isk wise. Amat victoria curam. |
Aamrr
279
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Posted - 2012.08.21 14:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
You're joking, right? |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
139
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Posted - 2012.08.21 16:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:You're joking, right?
We're seeing plenty of cap boosted setups. A shield boost amplifier uses that capacitor about 3 times more efficiently than a typical cap/shield booster combination. If a ship can run missions with a capacitor injector, it can run them with an ancillary shield booster.
Just to humor you, let's look at the cost you're complaining about. The median selling price is approximately 8000 isk/unit (I use 400 charges). I use approximately 5-10 per mission. Each mission pays out somewhere between 10 and 20 million isk, not including salvage and LP.
I'm spending about 50,000 isk to earn ~15 million isk. That means that for every three hundred missions I complete, I'll have to do one more. I usually spend forty times that paying for T2 missiles, and consider it well worth the expense.
Capacitor charge cost is most definitely not a legitimate reason to avoid the ancillary shield booster.
Yes, lets entirely forget you can use normal shield booster without cap boosters for the most part, relying on cap regen, and ONLY need to pop booster charges in case of heavy tanking. If you only need 8-10 shield boosts per mission you could have done it with a normal shield booster without cap boosters alltogether.
Amat victoria curam. |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
937
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Posted - 2012.08.21 18:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
A deadspace XL shield booster boosts more per cycle for less capacitor, and is slightly cheaper than a DG or CN one, though it is harder to fit (I have Elite fitting cert plus Launcher Rigging 5). Make sure to compare prices and capabilities before buying!
Aside from the shield booster (I don't remember at the moment whether I have a Gist B or Gist C, but I'm fairly certain it isn't a Pith), this is what I'm using. Note the rigs: you'll want a flare instead of 3 rigors.
[Raven Navy Issue, Basic] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Signal Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
[empty slot] Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5 |
Aamrr
281
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Posted - 2012.08.21 19:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alright. Let's say I'm off on the capacitor count. I do missions pretty efficiently, and rats don't get a chance to do much damage to me. Let's say I'm off by an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE. 50 charges per mission. I think that's absurd, but sure, let's make the assumption.
You now have to do an additional mission every 30 missions to make up the difference. The horror. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
937
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Posted - 2012.08.21 20:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Alright. Let's say I'm off on the capacitor count. I do missions pretty efficiently, and rats don't get a chance to do much damage to me. Let's say I'm off by an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE. 50 charges per mission. I think that's absurd, but sure, let's make the assumption.
You now have to do an additional mission every 30 missions to make up the difference. The horror. I use 15 charges in the cargohold, and 5 in the module. This lasts 4-8 missions depending on the mission. I usually have to get more cruise missiles or change damage type before I need more cap charges.
I kite missions, so the only time I take damage is when I warp in and get auto-agro. At about 90 km, NPC cannot hit you. However one cannot kite Angels, but the movement still greatly decreases incoming damaged compared to standing still.
In 10 minutes you can build a lot of charges while doing a mission. Requires Industry 1. You don't need other skills or even a researched BPO. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
139
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Posted - 2012.08.21 21:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Alright. Let's say I'm off on the capacitor count. I do missions pretty efficiently, and rats don't get a chance to do much damage to me. Let's say I'm off by an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE. 50 charges per mission. I think that's absurd, but sure, let's make the assumption.
You now have to do an additional mission every 30 missions to make up the difference. The horror.
So you'll add a 4th BCS because getting 5% more overall dps makes sense (and it does) but at the same time you agree to losing 5-10% of your income per mission wasted on cap boosters. Using ASB's doesn't help you do missions faster (unlike faction ammo&damage mods) therefore increasing your running cost by using them doesn't help you. It's just not logical :) Amat victoria curam. |
Aamrr
281
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Posted - 2012.08.21 22:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
How does 1/30 (a gross overestimate) = 5-10%?
And it absolutely helps, because it lets you trim off damage mods and makes you less of a loot pinata.
These expenses are utterly inconsequential relative to ammunition costs. I can't believe we're actually discussing them. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
139
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Posted - 2012.08.21 23:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:How does 1/30 (a gross overestimate) = 5-10%?
And it absolutely helps, because it lets you trim off damage mods and makes you less of a loot pinata.
These expenses are utterly inconsequential relative to ammunition costs. I can't believe we're actually discussing them.
Because it invalidates your fitting idea. Also not all missions pay that well so 5-10% sounds about right.
Amat victoria curam. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
937
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 02:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
I updated my fit above.
Turns out I was wrong: I am using a Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster, and it is 34m less than a CN!
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Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
140
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Posted - 2012.08.22 07:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I updated my fit above.
Turns out I was wrong: I am using a Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster, and it is 34m less than a CN!
Would you use Fury ammo then you're always better off with 3 rigors over 2 rigor +1 flare. And yup, the Pith-C types are mostly forgotten by people, hence they're very cheap and actually very good, if not ideal for lazy perma tanking fits :P
Amat victoria curam. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
939
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Posted - 2012.08.22 20:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:Would you use Fury ammo then you're always better off with 3 rigors over 2 rigor +1 flare. I use T2 Fury on battleships and battlecruisers, and T1 on everything else (sometimes I splurge and use Navy instead).
I don't use T2 Precision as I like to kite. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
615
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Posted - 2012.08.22 21:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:Aamrr wrote:How does 1/30 (a gross overestimate) = 5-10%?
And it absolutely helps, because it lets you trim off damage mods and makes you less of a loot pinata.
These expenses are utterly inconsequential relative to ammunition costs. I can't believe we're actually discussing them. Because it invalidates your fitting idea. Also not all missions pay that well so 5-10% sounds about right.
5% would meaning somehow blowing through 100,000 ISK in boosters on a mission with a very poor payout of 2,000,000 ISK. I can't even think of a mission that pays that low when accounting for completion, time bonus, and bounties and I certainly can't think of one that would require that many cap boosters.
Seriously, I'm not sold on the idea of blowing cap boosters on missions -- but that's mainly for logistics reasons. The numbers definitely support the idea and come nowhere near the 10% number you seem to have made up. |
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