I think some of the old school Amarr became a bit obsessed with moaning to be quite honest. To many of its groups became very restricted in their tactics and gameplay outlook and simply failed to adapt to the demands of the warzone. Sure everyone can complain and grumble about gunless-farming-alts or whatnot but they don't really matter. ...

I don't buy it Cearain really. I think all this talk of mobs of plexing alts is completely overblown. The reality is that you guys collectively (The amarr militia) just didn't want to defensive plex or risk basing in the warzone post Inferno.) .

Those who complain about not getting what they didn't want anyways is what is interesting to me. Amarr on the whole, except for perhaps Ms. Yoshida who left FW a long time ago, didn't want to participate in occupancy warfare anyways. And now they complain about losing all their systems. If you want pvp, it's in FW.

The inconvenience of you having to move two jumps to a non-FW system is small compared to the significant increase in pew for the rest of us. Sorry.

Sorry Cearain - I think you are a decent guy - but you are WAY too fixated on the alt-plexing farming stuff and I think your strategy of staking all on a vulnerability exploit (small "e") for a grand tier 5 cashout against an undefeated Matari militia with its staging systems intact was extremely poor. .

In any case you are completely right. Occupancy warfare involves zero pvp when one side decides to not fight. In the hinterlands it's the gunless frigates running plexes....

If you don't want to fully particpate in the occupancy warfare that's your choice. And guess what, nobody is forcing you to. I am just amazed at how much complaining there is from people who don't care about occupancy warfare to begin with. ..

My theory is that the real complaint is all about access to easy isk, not pvp, and how plexing alts are disrupting that access for Amarr FW. However, nobody wants to say it directly so they start complaining about lack of pvp, station lockouts, whatever even though PVP in FW is the best it has ever been. ..

The point Jade and these other guys are trying to make is that if the alt plexing situation were straighted out, Amarr would still lose. ..

They - Electus Matari, Star Fraction, Murietor Tribe, sasawong, are doing occupancy warfare for system control, not isk. They'll be doing occupancy warfare whether or not they are at Tier 1 or Tier 5. They aren't going to failcascade when things go **** up.
..

Most of the Amarr will only do occupancy warfare if they have a chance at a higher tier payout because all they care about is easy isk. Fweddit, Nulli, WBR were in Amarr FW for other reasons and have since bailed once the prospects of easy Amarr FW isk have dried up. My guess is that Iron Oxide and Late Night are in FW mostly for pvp, but they are rooted in Minmatar FW forever since they all "grew up" in FW. So they're staying too.

Who are the Amarr equivalents of these alliances and corporations?

However the main problem is Amar dont care about the new way FW mechanics work, until they care they will just be the same old Amar....

I'll get to some other responses later on (lunch break now) but just want to bring you up on this point. I certainly didn't suggest that you should be defensive plexing metro in the wake of your tier 4 spike. In fact the only kind of defensive plexing I'd advise anyone to do in good conscience is defensive plexing in a critical staging system where the enemy is interested in fighting to kick you out. The thrust of my critique on your strategy Cearain is that you fixated on ISK through the infinite vulnerability situation as an extremely short term tactic that immediately vanished in smoke when you achieved it, rather than using the numerical advantage you had for a time to remove critical minmatar staging systems in order to throw us back 10 jumps to our hisec.

"I don't think there is much we can do about this, but there are a ton of people farming vulnerable systems. That is why we are not at tier 5 already. I am not sure how long these larger groups want to farm.

I have no idea what this will do to the market. I really don't. Certainly the lp market can bear some amount of farming because of the sheer number of items. But there seems to be 3 merlins in every system.....

I think we may want to move things along and start focusing on getting the remaining systems vulnerable. Or by the time we do flip the systems there will litterally be trillions of lp people are cashing in. But really I don't know what to make of it."

"I had my alt plexing systems that are not vulnerable. I had him doing majors in ebolifer sirekur and ontorn. Not in eszur but around there its pretty peaceful and you are helping amarr much more than just milking an already vulnerable system."

Just read what Jade said about Huola or any FW low sec home system.

For 5 hours after the systems flipped, myself, and at lest 10 others you were in the Aset pocket contesting the systems to pull Amarr out of T4 as fast as possible. My Navy Caracal had missiles. (and I also lost it to a Pirate Talos grrrrr).


I don't know how many were by t1 frigs. I'll give you 90%. You feel better? It does not change what happened.*

About the only argument I can see for why things are the way they are is that a majority of Amarr elements decided that they did not want to employ themselves in elements they deemed unworthy of their time and effort. Even after being made to understand how that would impact the parts they did care about.*

Alts did not make choices for those people. Those people made their choices with alts. Beside, Saswong won the FW for us, remember that. *Saswong is overpowered and needs nerfed*

I see you are more concerned about making isk than winning a war. /thread

How does one win any war in Eve? Break the will of the opposing force.

It's only important because we choose to make it important. .... It's only important if you make it important. ..

This a thousand times.

Tier 5 is just a victory boon - its not the victory. There is no victory unless the enemy force is broken, disrupted, scattered and shattered of its morale and internal camaraderie.

What Inferno FW 2.0 actually brought to the table was a reason to utterly annihilate the enemy militia (reliable tier 5 riches) but that reason should not become the whole of your strategy. You Cearain appear to have forgotten that you need to defeat the enemy in detail before you can take his castle, drink his wine cellar and sleep with his wenches in peace.

I'll be blunt Cearain ... a child could control Nulli knowing what you did about their intentions.

When they started leaving systems vulnerable pending a push to tier 5 in a single night strategy you guys should simply have flipped those systems to prevent Nulli approaching their goal and told their leadership that you were prepared to go along with their plan only after they eradicated the minmatar stronghold systems.

There is nothing Nulli can do to stop you messing with their plan and eventually they'd either have to do what you asked or leave FW on a disappointing tier 2-3 outcome.

Same goes for any interfering nullsec power really.

confirming that the horde of AFK plexers was new to inferno.

Before that, we ALL had to sit and watch the timer constantly.

Funny, amarrians didn't seem to be whining back in the day when PERVS flipped most of metro using plexing alts and exploits. Shoe, other foot, sadface, hypocrisy. Lulz

Sadly, the 'notable chunks of the Amarr Militia' are the people to busy to literally do anything of any consequence except shoot at each other on an undock or to criticize the actions and effectiveness of fellow militia mates; The most bitter of bitter justify this by swinging around wild excuses about Link Alts, Online Titan Pilots and whatever they spout off in any attempt to not look like chumps by station spinning.

They also love to spout off at length about how whatever group they lost an argument in Militia chat with hasn't had any impact on the warzone.

Fweddit & Friends Leave... didn't want Kourmonen, Kamela or Sosala anyway.


Gee Eff Minmatar Bros.

Getting fights wasn't really the issue, and to be quite honest, I don't think I've ever engaged in a single conversation in Militia chat operating even in a realm remotely close to informative or helpful. Amarr Militia chat was literally the Special Olympics of Bads going out of the way to feel special by arguing the finer points of split weapon system Cormorants and how to not **** fit thrashers.

Met quite a few decent Minmatar folks, and had good times in comms with a few (Vordak, Trans, The ALWAYS Happy Ninlarr, and Poetic)- getting fights wasn't the issue; the quality of life for newbro's was rough. They just didn't have the same ISK making oppurtunities, not to mention a half-assed warzone and even at t4 with 3 months of accumulated loyalty points a sub-par LP store.

After we cashed out and whored on some cap kills, we just had absolutely no incentive to stay. It was good times, but were back to thriving under the Caldari Banner. Fweddit will probably make skirmishes into Minmatar Space, and we still have an office quite full of ships out there so it's only a matter of time before we go back and welp gloriously.